Blue Jays Discussion: It's the off-season. Stuff might happen. Or it might not.

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Those first four names make a pretty good offseason shopping list ^^

Move Grichuk and Roark and extremely front loading on all 4 would be a tidy piece of business.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Move Grichuk and Roark and extremely front loading on all 4 would be a tidy piece of business.

I agree get rid of Grich and Roark somehow.

 

[phillipmike]

Houston is losing all their OFs to FA in Springer, Brantley and Reddick. They also have Verlander on a 1 year deal worth 33M who is likely to miss most of the season. So they are spending 33M next season on nothing.

Houston has a need in the OF and in the rotation. Grichuk also is from Houston.

Would you guys trade Grichuk and Roark for Verlander and release Verlander?

Houston is close to the Luxury Tax and if Verlander is out they get 2 players that can actually play and save 11M in 2021.

Jays take on the 11M in 2021 to save 10M in 2022 and 2023 and get 2 roster spots. The extra 11M in 2021 will hurt the Jays but it’s short term pain for long term gain. The added benefit is that the Jays could replace Roark’s production at no additional cost with Kay or Thornton if needed and Grichuk’s with Fisher or someone on the market.

Would you trade Grichuk and Roark for Verlander 33M 2021 salary?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Houston is losing all their OFs to FA in Springer, Brantley and Reddick. They also have Verlander on a 1 year deal worth 33M who is likely to miss most of the season. So they are spending 33M next season on nothing.

Houston has a need in the OF and in the rotation. Grichuk also is from Houston.

Would you guys trade Grichuk and Roark for Verlander and release Verlander?

Houston is close to the Luxury Tax and if Verlander is out they get 2 players that can actually play and save 11M in 2021.

Jays take on the 11M in 2021 to save 10M in 2022 and 2023 and get 2 roster spots. The extra 11M in 2021 will hurt the Jays but it’s short term pain for long term gain. The added benefit is that the Jays could replace Roark’s production at no additional cost with Kay or Thornton if needed and Grichuk’s with Fisher or someone on the market.

Would you trade Grichuk and Roark for Verlander 33M 2021 salary?

I doubt the Jays view Grichuk as negative value like that, and doubt they feel like a guy like Fisher can replace him.

 

[phillipmike]

Blue Jays' Atkins confident in ‘more accountable’ Vlad Guerrero Jr. - Sportsnet.ca

During that conversation, Guerrero revealed that he apologized to teammates for letting himself go during the pandemic shutdown, squandering the previous winter’s training (he’s since lost 32 pounds), acknowledged relying primarily on his abundant talent and said he’s been outperformed by peers like Juan Soto, Fernando Tatis Jr., and Ronald Acuna Jr., because of their off-season work.

 

[phillipmike]

 

[Jozay]

Im ready to buy a Lindor jersey

 

[Jozay]

 

[Cor]

Interesting.

 

[Morgs]

Get it done without trading any of Vlad, Bo, Biggio, Teo, Jansen, Groshans, Martin, Pearson, or Ryu and I'm very happy. If Lourdes, Orlevis, SWR, Mahoah, or Kloff aren't involved either I'm over the f***ing moon.

I know Cleveland is being cheap and wants to cut money, but I wonder if they want to take money back (like Roark or Grichuk) to increase their haul or if they just straight up want to dump Lindor's money?

 

[Morgs]

Fantastic news. Gives the Blue Jays an entire off-season to attempt to fix what was truly a horrible 2020 (other than 3/5 of his games with us and his playoff game)

Love the risk as he still has the strikeout stuff, and he's only 1 year removed from a 2.4 WAR season.

 

[hoc123]

 

[The Nemesis]

cool cool.

best case he's a viable starter with strikeout stuff and a high-ish ceiling as an acceptable #3 or good #4.

worst case he's still worthwhile as a power arm out of the pen for long relief/post-opener/"the starter imploded, bail us out for the next couple innings" type work.

likely value is somewhere in the middle as a 4/5 or swingman. and the price is right.

 

[Haringoth]

Fangraphs (I think it was them) had a thing on Ray, and in a very shirt time with Toronto, his strike rate was up 5 percent. That is with not a lot of time, so I'd love to see what we may get next year. Throw in the fact its a 1 year deal, and this is a low risk, potentially very high reward play.

 

[Puckstuff]

Get it done without trading any of Vlad, Bo, Biggio, Teo, Jansen, Groshans, Martin, Pearson, or Ryu and I'm very happy. If Lourdes, Orlevis, SWR, Mahoah, or Kloff aren't involved either I'm over the f***ing moon.

I know Cleveland is being cheap and wants to cut money, but I wonder if they want to take money back (like Roark or Grichuk) to increase their haul or if they just straight up want to dump Lindor's money?

I'm surprised more people don't have Lourdes on the untouchables list. While Lindor is better then Gurriel Jr. there's a lot of players I would move before him.

Gurriel Jr.

• Batted.308
• Has big time power
• Was just a finalist for the Gold glove award
• He's turning into a complete 2-way guy. By two-way I'm talking about a guy who can play both offence and defence. He keeps getting better defensively.
• Averaged 3.4 FWAR over his last 162 games.
• We're short on outfielders.
• and he's on a steal of a contract giving us more money to sign good players.

He's one of the last players I would want to trade behind the 4 or 5 big studs.

Orelvis, SWR, Monoah, Kloff, Pardhino can be used for Lindor. Maybe Tellez/Grichcuk as well as part of a package although that would suck moving Tellez I'd prefer giving up futures. I may move Groshans before Gurriel honestly although I'd have to think about it more

 

[Morgs]

I'm getting increasingly excited about the potential of this offseason. Very few teams (if any) can match our prospect pool and amount of money available to spend. Every report is saying how aggressive we plan to be.

This could very well be a make or break offseason for this FO. They HAVE to take advantage of all these teams attempting to cut salary.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I'm getting increasingly excited about the potential of this offseason. Very few teams (if any) can match our prospect pool and amount of money available to spend. Every report is saying how aggressive we plan to be.

This could very well be a make or break offseason for this FO. They HAVE to take advantage of all these teams attempting to cut salary.

Yeah, you cut payroll during a rebuild for pretty much this exact moment. Have to capitalize.

 

[Canada4Gold]

8 million is maybe a couple million more than I expected Ray would get after the year he had but it's fine. Glad to see we're trying to shore up the hole early, and with someone who had success here in a limited stint after the deadline.

 

[phillipmike]

A lot to take in here. I like Ray and the 1 year deal but not at $8M. Especially considering “bargains” are expected... this doesn’t seem like a bargain.

Will take a up a starter spot;

Ryu
Pearson
Ray
Roark
Stripling

BUT

Now we don’t know how much the Jays have to spend. We could have $50-60M more to spend and there is little impact on signing Ray.

Also the Jays are rumoured to be aggressive and perhaps a lot of free agents are spurning them because they don’t know where they will be playing: Toronto, Buffalo or somewhere else. So basically they have to take the bird in the hand as you know Ray is willing to sign.

A lot of unknowns so can’t really pick a side yet.

 

[Morgs]

I'm surprised more people don't have Lourdes on the untouchables list. While Lindor is better then Gurriel Jr. there's a lot of players I would move before him.

Batted.308
Has big time power
Was just a finalist for the Gold glove award
He's turning into a complete 2-way guy. By two-way I'm talking about a guy who can play both offence and defence. He keeps getting better defensively.
Averaged 3.4 FWAR over his last 162 games.
We're short on outfielders.
and he's on a steal of a contract giving us more money to sign good players.

He's one of the last players I would want to trade behind the 4 or 5 big studs.

Orelvis, SWR, Monoah, Kloff, Pardhino can be used for Lindor. Maybe Tellez/Grichcuk as well as part of a package although that would suck moving Tellez I'd prefer giving up futures. I may move Groshans before Gurriel honestly although I'd have to think about it more

I love Gurriel. I think he has turned into a fantastic OF, but if Cleveland said to me "Gurriel has to be included or this isn't happening" I'd be willing to pack up Gurriel's bags myself. Don't forget that he's older than Lindor. In no way do I want to trade him, I just don't see him as an untouchable (like I see Bo, Biggio, Vlad, Teo, etc) if a team is willing to give us gigantic value for him.

The first group I had is essentially my untouchables (plus Jansen, who I think is so so close to being the 2nd best catcher in baseball). The second group is the guys that if forced, I'd trade. In no way do I want to trade any of them.

 

[weems]

I would honestly go for it this offseason.
It would create two super windows, the first with the young core surrounded by a few elite vets and then the second with the young core being the experienced star players and fill in around.

Plus we're not paying any of the young guys big money yet so a massive spending offseason will be tougher when potentially paying any or all of Bo, VLAD and Cavan huge $$.

We're in a perfect position to sign Bauer and trade for Lindor.

How many chances will we have to put together a roster that would be this loaded?

If it's true and somehow our management knows Lindor wants to play here, I'd easily give up Groshans+ in a deal.

Bauer, Ryu, Pearson, Ray, Shoemaker/Strip.

That rotation could be amazing if Pearson took a big step.

Biggio, Bichette, Lindor, Vlad, Teoscar, Lourdes

Thats a sick hitting core that could rival most teams.

If we made those two big moves not many teams will want to play us next season.

 

[Discoverer]

I love Gurriel. I think he has turned into a fantastic OF, but if Cleveland said to me "Gurriel has to be included or this isn't happening" I'd be willing to pack up Gurriel's bags myself. Don't forget that he's older than Lindor. In no way do I want to trade him, I just don't see him as an untouchable (like I see Bo, Biggio, Vlad, Teo, etc) if a team is willing to give us gigantic value for him.

The first group I had is essentially my untouchables (plus Jansen, who I think is so so close to being the 2nd best catcher in baseball). The second group is the guys that if forced, I'd trade. In no way do I want to trade any of them.

Gurriel for Lindor is three years of a cheap, well above average player at a position with little depth for one year of a star at a position where they have a star.

It makes no sense. If you trade for Lindor, it's because you're going for it now (and for the next few years, if there's an extension). You give up prospects and/or secondary MLB pieces in a deal like that, not a guy who's been one of the better players in the league at his position over the last year with no replacement of any kind in the organization.

 

[weems]

Lindor is younger than both Hernandez and Gurriel and year/half older than Biggio.

If he wants to play here we should make it happen.

 

[Cor]

I get the sense that one of McGuire or Jansen will be traded this winter, and we'll sign an experienced catcher to tandem with whatever of the two we keep.

Though we have Kirk knocking on the door as well, so

 

[Cor]

Hypothetically, Lindor would likely be our SS, while Bichette would move to CF right? Strengthen our lineup, and fill a position of need.