It's Easy To Be A Great Coach When You Have The Greatest QB EVER !!!

[spintheblackcircle]

You guys must be too young to remember how OLD Unitas was when Shula coached him.

I'm older than you, kid.

Piece of advice, if you are going to create a click-bait thread, at least be a little accurate.

 

[Voight]

Even if you want to say he's overrated as a coach, Belichick the GM is fantastic.

Also regardless if one thinks Griese should in the PFHOF, they still had 5 other HOF'ers on those 70s squads. Lets not act like Shula was working with the bare minimum.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Even if you want to say he's overrated as a coach, Belichick the GM is fantastic.

Also regardless if one thinks Griese should in the PFHOF, they still had 5 other HOF'ers on those 70s squads. Lets not act like Shula was working with the bare minimum.

He is miles better as a coach, than GM, especially lately.

 

[Voight]

He is miles better as a coach, than GM, especially lately.

Of course, but as a GM he's been great.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Of course, but as a GM he's been great.

I'd say he's had a fair amount of swings and misses of late.

Harry in the first, Sony in the first, Sanu for a second rounder. Their skill position players may be one of the worst groups in the league.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

I see that ORRForever decided that he had made enough bad takes on the entertainmemt board and decided we needed his terrible football takes.

Easily in the Top-10 Comments I've seen recently lol.

 

[Babe Ruth]

..people have either forgotten about, or are too young/weren't even born yet when BB was at best a mediocre head coach during his time in Cleveland.

This is a fair point, but Belichick was a successful defensive coordinator before his failure in Cleveland. His situation in Cleveland wasn't ideal, and he needed time to improve his head coaching craft.
I've never understood the (common) argument where Belichick & Brady's respective greatness are perceived as mutually exclusive.. both have been great (both arguably the greatest) in their roles. No different than Walsh-Montana, Noll-Bradshaw, etc.

 

[ORRFForever]

I'm older than you, kid.

Piece of advice, if you are going to create a click-bait thread, at least be a little accurate.

I'll concede your points on Unitas (it was before my time) but...

* Shula, nor anyone else, was winning any Championship against the Green Bay Packer dynasty - including the years before the first Superbowl.
* When Unitas did play in the Superbowl, he was second string, so to say Shula couldn't win a Superbowl with Unitas is disingenuous.

As for Marino, I won't concede anything (I was a rabid Dolphin fan for decades)...

Marino was incapable of winning big games. Minus his BIG playoff win against Pittsburgh during the SuperBowl run, and some success in 1994, his playoff stats were atrocious.

In regular season games, yes, Marino could light up the stats like few others. In big games, he froze like a deer in the headlights.

So when posters say Shula had Marino and he was Brady's equivalent, they never saw Marino play in big games.

 

[Voight]

I see that ORRForever decided that he had made enough bad takes on the entertainmemt board and thought we needed his terrible football takes.

Amerika from the top rope

Adam Gase was labelled an offensive genius with Peyton Manning as his QB. Look at him now!

The best was the whole "QB Guru" thing. As if he was the reason Manning had one of the best seasons of all time.

 

[Barnum]

Let me gather the facts here. Brady finally has a dominate win on so-so stats and the Patriots lose a game they probably should have won. That equates to The Belly sucks and Brady is master of the universe. Alrighty then, I love the logic and research.

I have been a Pats fans since the 70s. If there is one thing on the planet that might be true. The Broncos own the Patriots, every game and every time. It’s annoying but true and the Broncos make me cry. Let’s not factor in the Patriots didn’t practice for two weeks, their QB was sick with cv19 along with their best defensive player, 9 starters opted out of the season and the starting o-line is currently decimated with injuries. I am thankful they are 2-3 instead like the Jets.

The Belly’s record in Cleveland it wasn’t very great but it’s not like is outrageously bad either. It was 36-44. His QB’s were Bernie Kosar and old man Testaverde.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

The greatest QB ever may have been Dan Marino.

.......trying to remember his coach and how many championships they won........any help?

New England has had very good to elite defenses the last 2 decades. Marino sometimes would put up 40 points and it would not be enough. Those Dolphin teams had some atrocious defenses some years.

 

[Barnum]

LOL. He had Unitas at the VERY END of his career - after he stopped being a starter.

As for Bob Griese... Have you ever looked at his stats? He has a career passing rating of 77.1.

Which for the 70s was an incredible QB rating. Are you new to football? QBs were considered great if they hit 50% of their passes. Jim Hart was considered a great QB during that era and he had like 40 more interceptions than TDs.

These are considered some of the best QBs of the 70s and their rating. You need to study more, kid.

Staubach 83.4
Stabler 75.3
Manning 67.1
Bradshaw 70.9
Tarkenton 80.5
Bert Jones 78.2
Kilmer 71.6
Dawson 82.6
Hart 66.6
Anderson 81.9

And only because Steve Grogan is my favorite Patriot QB, his was 69.6, but he did play into the late 80s.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

didnt they win 11 games when brady missed the whole season in 08?

yep. With the easiest schedule in the NFL.

 

[ORRFForever]

Which for the 70s was an incredible QB rating. Are you new to football? QBs were considered great if they hit 50% of their passes. Jim Hart was considered a great QB during that era and he had like 40 more interceptions than TDs.

These are considered some of the best QBs of the 70s and their rating. You need to study more, kid.

Staubach 83.4
Stabler 75.3
Manning 67.1
Bradshaw 70.9
Tarkenton 80.5
Bert Jones 78.2
Kilmer 71.6
Dawson 82.6
Hart 66.6
Anderson 81.9

And only because Steve Grogan is my favorite Patriot QB, his was 69.6, but he did play into the late 80s.

Griese was highly overrated - and that's coming from someone who lived and breathed the Miami Dolphins for decades.

Was he good? Yes, but he was no where near great and, like Fran Tarkenton said, he should not be in the HOF.

Griese's Superbowls came on the back of the No Name Defense, Larry Csonka, Mercury Morris and Jim Kiick. Griese hardly had to pass. Again, not a great QB - I wish he had been.

Shula went to the Superbowl with 4 different quarterbacks - Earl Morrall, Bob Griese, David Woodley and Dan Marino. How many coaches can say that?

Again, now that Brady is gone, let's see how many Superbowls BB goes to.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Mike Mccarthey disagrees.

He had the best QB ever and constantly cost his team many wins with his dumb coaching decisions.

I mean Bill deserves the most credit, more so than Brady, Theres a reason Brady went Round 6, Look at those first 2 Super Bowls, Brady wasn't doing anything special, that was all Bill.

Hell the 1st Superbowl was Brady doing basically nothing, IIRC Bledsoe and the Pats D had the same amount of TDs as Brady that postseason.

Without Tom Brady in 2008, Bill went 11-5 with Cassel, Made Cassel look like a very good QB, so good that a GM paid Cassel well.

Jimmy G & Brissett went 3-1 in New England when Brady got Suspended

Everyone always points to this. But this was a team that was coming off a 19-0 season sans a miracle catch. They had one of the easiest schedules in 2008. They had great talent on defense. And they happened to go 1-4 against playoff teams. The one win was in a blizzard at home against the Cardinals.

Belichick is a great coach. But he's really lost it as a GM. The drafts have been horrendous lately. The trades have stunk. And I don't get the Newton signing. You sink or swim with Stidham. And if you sink, you know to draft a QB in 2021.

Your point as well is probably that having a star QB doesn't automatically = great success. True. But Belichick is a few tiers ahead of McCarthy. That much is obvious.

I'm not saying Belichick isn't an all time great coach. He clearly is. I'm saying his drafts have been subpar since 2015. That is showing now.

 

[Barnum]

Griese was highly overrated - and that's coming from someone who lived and breathed the Miami Dolphins for decades.

Was he good? Yes, but he was no where near great and, like Fran Tarkenton said, he should not be in the HOF.

Griese Superbowls came on the back of the No Name Defense, Larry Csonka, Mercury Morris and Jim Kiick. Griese hardly had to pass. Again, not a great QB - I wish he had been.

Shula went to the Superbowl with 4 different quarterbacks - Earl Morrall, Bob Griese, David Woodley and Dan Marino. How many coaches can say that?

Again, now that Brady is gone, let's see how many Superbowls BB goes to.

 

[ORRFForever]

Obviously, I've hit a nerve. Again, let's see how Superbowls BB has without Tom Brady - my guess it rhymes with "zero".

 

[Hockeyholic]

Let me gather the facts here. Brady finally has a dominate win on so-so stats and the Patriots lose a game they probably should have won. That equates to The Belly sucks and Brady is master of the universe. Alrighty then, I love the logic and research.

I have been a Pats fans since the 70s. If there is one thing on the planet that might be true. The Broncos own the Patriots, every game and every time. It’s annoying but true and the Broncos make me cry. Let’s not factor in the Patriots didn’t practice for two weeks, their QB was sick with cv19 along with their best defensive player, 9 starters opted out of the season and the starting o-line is currently decimated with injuries. I am thankful they are 2-3 instead like the Jets.

The Belly’s record in Cleveland it wasn’t very great but it’s not like is outrageously bad either. It was 36-44. His QB’s were Bernie Kosar and old man Testaverde.

Since 2000:

2000: Pats@Broncos. Pats win.

2001: Pats@Broncos. Broncos win.

2002: Broncos@Pats. Broncos win.

2003: Pats@Broncos. Pats win.

2005: Pats@Broncos (Including postseason). Broncos won both. Denver favored going into postseason game. But not a huge favorite.

2006: Broncos@Pats. Broncos win.

2008: Broncos@Pats. Pats win.

2009: Pats@Broncos. Broncos win.

2011 (Including postseason): Pats@Broncos. Pats won both. Denver had no chance going into postseason game.

2012-2014: Broncos@Pats. Pats won them all.

2013 playoffs: Pats@Broncos. Denver won. Pats had no chance going into postseason game.

2015 (Including playoffs): Pats@Broncos. Denver won twice. 50/50 game going into postseason game. No clear favorite.

2016 & 2017: Pats@Broncos. Pats won both.

2020: Broncos@Pats. Denver won.

Regular season Games played:
16

Denver Wins:
7

NE wins:
9

Postseason games played:
4.

The Pats won the postseason game they should've won. Denver won three postseason games as favorites (Or even odds). Pats were in all three games except really for 2013. They were undermanned. In 2005, they were on the verge of taking the lead when Bailey had his famous pick (Followed by Watson's famous rundown). And in 2015, they likely win if their kicker doesn't screw up.

Both teams have won in each other's buildings aplenty. Denver has won in NE three times. NE has won in Denver five times.

Maybe you go further back then 2000. In that case, I don't know. I'm just going by Belichick's (And Brady in 01) reign as Pats coach.

 

[Hockeyholic]

I don't think there's a chance in hell Brady wins SB 36 with anyone else. I don't think he wins SB 53 with anyone else as coach either.

On the flip side, I don't think Belichick wins SB 49 & 51 with any other QB.

So in the end, both benefited from each other. Brady probably has more success without Belichick than vice versa. But that's Football. QB is always most important.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

Griese was a two-time first team All-Pro, equivalent to being named to the first NHL all star team as a center imo. Most all-time qb lists I have seen have Griese in the 20-25 range. Shula had himself a legit HOFamer right there so.

Half of Marino's playoff games would be considered good. I'm not sure where this idea that he always choked in the big game came from. All playoff games are big, not just the last one you lose.

How come Shula was incapable to making the playoffs 50% of the time with Marino (a top-10 qb all-time) as QB or winning a Superbowl? Maybe he wasn't capable of putting a good team or game plan around him at that point?

Shula failed to win the title game with a prime Unitas and yet McCafferty followed and in his very first year won a Super Bowl? What is Shula's excuse?

I think I will wait and see how Belichik fairs over the next 3 -5 years without Brady, assuming he desires to stick around that long. He is long in the tooth at this point, so I wouldn't blame him for walking away in the next couple years. However, he has already proven he can win without a QB playing at an elite level - see early Brady years and his last SuperBowl win 2 years ago. That game was a defensive battle with both QBs generating little offense. Guess who played the biggest role in constructing that team?

 

[DangleCity]

Everyone always points to this. But this was a team that was coming off a 19-0 season sans a miracle catch. They had one of the easiest schedules in 2008. They had great talent on defense. And they happened to go 1-4 against playoff teams. The one win was in a blizzard at home against the Cardinals.

Belichick is a great coach. But he's really lost it as a GM. The drafts have been horrendous lately. The trades have stunk. And I don't get the Newton signing. You sink or swim with Stidham. And if you sink, you know to draft a QB in 2021.

Your point as well is probably that having a star QB doesn't automatically = great success. True. But Belichick is a few tiers ahead of McCarthy. That much is obvious.

I'm not saying Belichick isn't an all time great coach. He clearly is. I'm saying his drafts have been subpar since 2015. That is showing now.

2008 was a great job by BB. He drafted a kid who hadnt started a game since hs and went 11-5 while replacing the goat coming off then greatest season ever for a QB.

The defense was not great, harrison was on IR and all but retired with Bruschi right behind him. They had the corpses of Roosevelt Colvin, Junior Seau, and Mike Vrabel and not to mention the ginormous bust and just a bad teammate that was Adalius Thomas. That defense would have been nasty 4 years earlier

 

[Rodgerwilco]

This is a fair point, but Belichick was a successful defensive coordinator before his failure in Cleveland. His situation in Cleveland wasn't ideal, and he needed time to improve his head coaching craft.
I've never understood the (common) argument where Belichick & Brady's respective greatness are perceived as mutually exclusive.. both have been great (both arguably the greatest) in their roles. No different than Walsh-Montana, Noll-Bradshaw, etc.

This x 1000. I don't understand it at all. My best guess is that it's just a weak attempt to diminish the legacy of either one (or both depending on the argument) of them.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Sometimes I wish this site had the Reputation system where you can neg posters.

 

[member 157595]

Sometimes I wish this site had the Reputation system where you can neg posters.

retweet

 

[Barnum]

Since 2000:

2000: Pats@Broncos. Pats win.

2001: Pats@Broncos. Broncos win.

2002: Broncos@Pats. Broncos win.

2003: Pats@Broncos. Pats win.

2005: Pats@Broncos (Including postseason). Broncos won both. Denver favored going into postseason game. But not a huge favorite.

2006: Broncos@Pats. Broncos win.

2008: Broncos@Pats. Pats win.

2009: Pats@Broncos. Broncos win.

2011 (Including postseason): Pats@Broncos. Pats won both. Denver had no chance going into postseason game.

2012-2014: Broncos@Pats. Pats won them all.

2013 playoffs: Pats@Broncos. Denver won. Pats had no chance going into postseason game.

2015 (Including playoffs): Pats@Broncos. Denver won twice. 50/50 game going into postseason game. No clear favorite.

2016 & 2017: Pats@Broncos. Pats won both.

2020: Broncos@Pats. Denver won.

Regular season Games played:
16

Denver Wins:
7

NE wins:
9

Postseason games played:
4.

The Pats won the postseason game they should've won. Denver won three postseason games as favorites (Or even odds). Pats were in all three games except really for 2013. They were undermanned. In 2005, they were on the verge of taking the lead when Bailey had his famous pick (Followed by Watson's famous rundown). And in 2015, they likely win if their kicker doesn't screw up.

Both teams have won in each other's buildings aplenty. Denver has won in NE three times. NE has won in Denver five times.

Maybe you go further back then 2000. In that case, I don't know. I'm just going by Belichick's (And Brady in 01) reign as Pats coach.

In the history between these two teams, the have Broncos beat the Pats in every decade except for 2010s when the Pats finally got over the curse of Denver by going 7-3 for the decade. The Pats went 3-6 agains the Broncos in the 2000s. Belichick’s Patriots are 10-10 against Denver. You have to go back to the Boston Patriot days prior to 2010 when the Patriots were at least respectable against the Broncos. Trust me, it’s a one sided rivalry except for that brief 10 years.

Prior to the the last decade (2010-2019), the Broncos have the the much better record by far. The Patriots went 19 years without a win against Denver at one point. 1980 to 1999. Losing 12 straight games against Denver.

Obviously, I've hit a nerve. Again, let's see how Superbowls BB has without Tom Brady - my guess it rhymes with "zero".

You got the gif because...(cough cough), you moved the goalposts from your original post and I am too old to play the HF game.

Bold statement. Belichick is on record as saying he won’t coach into his 70s. He’s currently 68 yrs old.

PS. I think your last sentence would have been better if you said “hero” or maybe even “Nero”.