GDT: Islanders @ Capitals - 11/5/13 - Nielsen > Tavares

[BobRouse]

Most "goal scorers" are given top 6 linemates and minutes and have 2 healthy shoulders. Fehr has rarely had more than 1 of those at a time in his history with the Caps.

Fehr was a 21 goal scorer playing 12:00 per game (10th for regular forwards) in '09-'10. It's not like he doesn't have the ability.

Its an age thing. That is why scorers peak at a certain age. They have more energy, agility, strength as 24 than they do at 30.

 

[RandyHolt]

That's one reason to not burn a guys peak physical year in friggin juniors playing with kids

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

The scary thing about Brouwer is that he's still scoring at an unsustainable rate right now -unless you believe his shot belongs in the tier with Tavares, Vanek, Kadri, P Kane and the like.

 

[Stewie G]

Its an age thing. That is why scorers peak at a certain age. They have more energy, agility, strength as 24 than they do at 30.

I can see that angle a little better, but I'd say Fehr doesn't rely as much on those characteristics as Brouwer or Ovie. I'd say his smarts and shot are big parts of his scoring, and those don't fade nearly as much as those physical attributes. Smarts probably increase with time. I wouldn't exactly call Brouwer a thinking man out there.

 

[BobRouse]

I can see that angle a little better, but I'd say Fehr doesn't rely as much on those characteristics as Brouwer or Ovie. I'd say his smarts and shot are big parts of his scoring, and those don't fade nearly as much as those physical attributes. Smarts probably increase with time. I wouldn't exactly call Brouwer a thinking man out there.

I do agree that a player gains wisdom which counteracts the loss of energy after his goal scoring peak.

Brouwer isn't a perfect player but he does bring a level of grit to this team that Fehr simply cannot. Thats not his game.

And yes Fehr hasn't had the same opportunity (injuries are part of that) but the reality is that Brouwer is a consistent producer. He will get you close to around 20 goals year in and year out. Thats proven. So is the fact that he is a top 20 hitter in the league year in and year out.

Also our PK is #1 or 2 league wide with him and Laich as our main PK forwards.

I'd be hard pressed to put Fehr in over him right now.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

The scary thing about Brouwer is that he's still scoring at an unsustainable rate right now -unless you believe his shot belongs in the tier with Tavares, Vanek, Kadri, P Kane and the like.

Not that I think Brouwer will keep it up, but if someone sustains an unsustainable shooting percentage, then that shooting percentage might need to be re-classified.

And I'd say that in light of his shooting percentage, his shot belongs more in the Glencross, Lucic, and Kunitz tier.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

either you have andre the giant sized hands, or thats the smallest bobblehead giveaway ive ever seen.

I do have big hands. I used to be able to hold 5 baseballs in each hand. Learned that trick from my Grandfather. And remember that old trick, if your hand is bigger than your face you have a..... I used to fall for that all the time when I was a kid.

 

[Roughing]

Love the lineup right now. I think a lot of the kids have some real talent. Nothing against Beags, Erskin, or Hillen but I never wanted them in the lineup anyway. It would be nice to see Fehr but the Fs are playing well outside of 20/21 and they aren't getting benched. I just don't understand why the org is down on Orlov but I think Schmidt and Urbom could be very good. Ole has looked better of late to me as well.

 

[txpd]

I think the Orlov thing is a simple case of square peg and round hole. left shot right defenseman on a team were the coach wants players on their strong side as a rule. Both Schmidt and Urbom are that and as older prospects they seem to have taken to the Caps style of play better than Orlov.

I don't think Orlov was called up to play, though.

 

[Halpysback*]

I'm trying to think of the last strong side team to win the cup.

Chicago has 3 guys in their top 6 playing on their off-wing, then Hjarmalsson and Oduya were both left shots. In 2010 all their top 6 wingers were on their off wing also had a Campbell-Hjarmalsson pairing. Kings had Brown playing on his off wing and I think both Greene and Martinez are LDs. Pens had 2 top 6 off-wingers, Gonchar playing on his off side along with Scuderi. Detroit had Holmstrom, Stuart right off the top of my head. Anaheim's entire top 4 were left shots and Niedermayer played on his off wing (either him or Moen). If Oates is the luminary that he is I feel like there would be one championship team that at least tries to adhere to his philosophy.

 

[BobRouse]

I'm trying to think of the last strong side team to win the cup.

Chicago has 3 guys in their top 6 playing on their off-wing, then Hjarmalsson and Oduya were both left shots. In 2010 all their top 6 wingers were on their off wing also had a Campbell-Hjarmalsson pairing. Kings had Brown playing on his off wing and I think both Greene and Martinez are LDs. Pens had 2 top 6 off-wingers, Gonchar playing on his off side along with Scuderi. Detroit had Holmstrom, Stuart right off the top of my head. Anaheim's entire top 4 were left shots and Niedermayer played on his off wing (either him or Moen). If Oates is the luminary that he is I feel like there would be one championship team that at least tries to adhere to his philosophy.

Didn't Oates use Boston as an example?

The shift to the proper side certainly seems to have worked for Ovechkin so I'm thinking I want to see how it plays out more.

His reasoning and analogy of the baseball shortstop is hard to refute.

 

[Halpysback*]

Didn't Oates use Boston as an example?

The shift to the proper side certainly seems to have worked for Ovechkin so I'm thinking I want to see how it plays out more.

His reasoning and analogy of the baseball shortstop is hard to refute.

Marchand-Bergeron-Recchi
Chara-Seidenberg

Wow, I totally forgot Boston won the cup 2 years ago. But yeah, that's their most important forward line and their most important defensive pairing.

Whether the proper side thing was responsible for Ovechkin's renaissance or whether it was something else, like coach's confidence or just working through a slump, is up for debate. He still scores a lion's share of his goals from the left, especially on the PP. And even if you concede that it did help Ovechkin (and I'm fine with keeping him there since it's working) it doesn't mean it's going to help other players playing other styles. Not every player in the league is Brett Hull. Here is just a list of some players who played most if not all of their careers on their off-wing aside from Ovechkin - Jagr, Bure, Recchi, Shanahan, St. Louis, Kane/Sharp/Hossa, Havlat, Gaborik, Lupul, Nash, Vanek. Also Heatley and Kovalchuk. I could probably think of a lot more. Having no one playing on their weak side means you make it significantly harder to cut to the middle and make plays from doing that, which is a huge part of any team's arsenal. You pretty much have to grind your way in from the outside along the boards.

I'm not familiar with baseball but I'd be wary of any arguments from a sport whose resemblances to hockey are metaphorical at best.

 

[BobRouse]

Marchand-Bergeron-Recchi
Chara-Seidenberg

Wow, I totally forgot Boston won the cup 2 years ago. But yeah, that's their most important forward line and their most important defensive pairing.

Whether the proper side thing was responsible for Ovechkin's renaissance or whether it was something else, like coach's confidence or just working through a slump, is up for debate. He still scores a lion's share of his goals from the left, especially on the PP. And even if you concede that it did help Ovechkin (and I'm fine with keeping him there since it's working) it doesn't mean it's going to help other players playing other styles. Not every player in the league is Brett Hull. Here is just a list of some players who played most if not all of their careers on their off-wing aside from Ovechkin - Jagr, Bure, Recchi, Shanahan, St. Louis, Kane/Sharp/Hossa, Havlat, Gaborik, Lupul, Nash, Vanek. Also Heatley and Kovalchuk. I could probably think of a lot more. Having no one playing on their weak side means you make it significantly harder to cut to the middle and make plays from doing that, which is a huge part of any team's arsenal. You pretty much have to grind your way in from the outside along the boards.

I'm not familiar with baseball but I'd be wary of any arguments from a sport whose resemblances to hockey are metaphorical at best.

Oates explained it alot better than I ever could but essentially it was like "you don't see many left handed shortstops because it would take an extra split second for them to pivot to make a throw to 1st base"

It makes sense and it definitely helps in the defensive zone.

I think there is merit to Oates thought process here. Oates really does know what he's talking about and has a great mind for the game so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt here.

 

[Halpysback*]

Oates explained it alot better than I ever could but essentially it was like "you don't see many left handed shortstops because it would take an extra split second for them to pivot to make a throw to 1st base"

It makes sense and it definitely helps in the defensive zone.

I think there is merit to Oates thought process here. Oates really does know what he's talking about and has a great mind for the game so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt here.

Gretzky had a great mind for the game too, arguably the greatest of all time, and was a **** coach. Trottier too.

Oates' argument flies in the face of hockey because you do, in fact, see a ton of very good and successful players playing their off hand in hockey. Case in point - Chicago.

As far as the defensive zone, the 2010 Flyers were arguably one of the best defensive squads we've seen since the lockout (ignoring the goalie being a steaming pile of ****), and either 5 or all 6 of their defensemen were left-handed. Same deal with 2007 ducks. Strong side may help with boardwork but any team that cuts to the middle has an easier time splitting the D because our guys have to pivot to the middle or play on the backhand. Remember how for a while Timonen was the only D in the NHL who was super effective against Ovechkin by neutralizing all his off the rush cuts to the middle while playing on his weak side?

Oates has a tendency focus on things he likes and ignores things that fly in the face of his theories. He's the kind of guy you want in an assistant coach role tinkering with PP habits and the length of Joel Ward's stick, not shoehorning bluechippers like Orlov because their playing style flies in the face of his theories.