Newsday: Islanders and Barclays Center have an opt-out clause

[OlTimeHockey]

Yup. About $400 million, minimum, to turn the Coliseum into an NHL viable arena. Absolutely hilarious that a thread on an article that while admitting that there is an out clause, then proceeds to shoot down

1) the interest by either party to take advantage of it (and puts it in the bleeping headline, no less)

2) the odds of returning to the Coliseum

3) the odds of finding any other viable location in metro NY

Turns into a OMG/see I told you so they are going break the lease thread.

Islanders and Barclays both need each other, and are stuck with each other.

To quote Bettman from the article:

That's a load of fecal slang. The Isles need a well managed arena and seating to said arena along with advertising, better food, more ameneties and a faithful fanbase intent on participating.

Barclays has almost all of that. They lack seating and the obstructed views and commute are a turn off to a large portion of the fanbase (though many still go).

The up-do is similar to what Tampa got on the cheap - a very successful refurb on an arena without major structural changes.

That generated a sales uptick and the age old truth - more fans, better advertising.

So you're actually telling me the NVMC being made to look more appealing and with the planned improvements on food and facilities is going to fail why? Are they not going to get advertising revenue with any success in revenue growth? Is this one of those silly 'burbs-make-poopy-doop' posts I so love reading?

If they go back to the original seating, there are more seats. The only lacking, in this renovation, would be luxury boxes.....

so who does this hurt? Not the team.

Not the arena operations.

The Barclays has dates filled with or without the Isles.

They have TWO arenas now, though.....so they have 728 dates to fill now. Now if a modernized arena with the fanbase being in the realm of the old arena were to add significant revenue to the company and Barclays adds revenue with 41+ open dates for concerts and boxing and so on.....where is your logic? They want to fill Barclays and not use the modernized arena better suited for hockey that can charge more per ticket now and has similar choices in food and beverages (we presume) and only use the renovated arena for monster trucks and concerts WHY?

Because they want the MAJORITY of fans to help fund the MTA?


Now onto the lipstick on a pig......do you have issues with the concrete, the accoustics, the empty space in the arena corridors or the yet to be renovated bathrooms? The carried over refrigeration or the concrete outside? Because everything else will be remodeled. So does a bare bones arena getting a new facade and seating and everything else stay a "pig" because of some spiritual carry over, like a friggen entity will possess it? Amityville Horror like pig thing?

I love the trolling.


And the LIRR expansion is a significant infrastructural change, but hey, I don't want to get picky.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zemk1rVkmuZo.kI2TLJdf7iVY&hl=en_US

 

[stranger34]

That's a load of fecal slang. The Isles need a well managed arena and seating to said arena along with advertising, better food, more ameneties and a faithful fanbase intent on participating.

Barclays has almost all of that. They lack seating and the obstructed views and commute are a turn off to a large portion of the fanbase (though many still go).

The up-do is similar to what Tampa got on the cheap - a very successful refurb on an arena without major structural changes.

That generated a sales uptick and the age old truth - more fans, better advertising.

So you're actually telling me the NVMC being made to look more appealing and with the planned improvements on food and facilities is going to fail why? Are they not going to get advertising revenue with any success in revenue growth? Is this one of those silly 'burbs-make-poopy-doop' posts I so love reading?

If they go back to the original seating, there are more seats. The only lacking, in this renovation, would be luxury boxes.....

so who does this hurt? Not the team.

Not the arena operations.

The Barclays has dates filled with or without the Isles.

They have TWO arenas now, though.....so they have 728 dates to fill now. Now if a modernized arena with the fanbase being in the realm of the old arena were to add significant revenue to the company and Barclays adds revenue with 41+ open dates for concerts and boxing and so on.....where is your logic? They want to fill Barclays and not use the modernized arena better suited for hockey that can charge more per ticket now and has similar choices in food and beverages (we presume) and only use the renovated arena for monster trucks and concerts WHY?

Because they want the MAJORITY of fans to help fund the MTA?


Now onto the lipstick on a pig......do you have issues with the concrete, the accoustics, the empty space in the arena corridors or the yet to be renovated bathrooms? The carried over refrigeration or the concrete outside? Because everything else will be remodeled. So does a bare bones arena getting a new facade and seating and everything else stay a "pig" because of some spiritual carry over, like a friggen entity will possess it? Amityville Horror like pig thing?

I love the trolling.


And the LIRR expansion is a significant infrastructural change, but hey, I don't want to get picky.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zemk1rVkmuZo.kI2TLJdf7iVY&hl=en_US

The arena in Tampa is awesome! Love the party deck

 

[Bones45]

I gotta read this entire thread; I've been remiss.

 

[NittanyIsle]

So is the 4-6 games (pre season, maybe 1 or 2 reg season) at the new Coli still a thing or is that not happening?

 

[Metnut]

So is the 4-6 games (pre season, maybe 1 or 2 reg season) at the new Coli still a thing or is that not happening?

Maybe. I'd say odds are 3/2 against. Check in again in 18-24 months.

 

[The Underboss]

https://www.sny.tv/islanders/news/bettman-isles-are-doing-well-in-brooklyn/171865420

"I think that's a bit of what happens when a team changes its arena," Bettman told Francesa on WFAN. "I've seen it in other markets where there's a new arena built. Change is something you have to adjust to."

"Compared to the Nassau Coliseum, you bet," Bettman said. "I mean, it's comfortable. You can get fed without standing on line for two periods. You can go to the restroom"

Didn't want to put this in its own thread.

 

[blitzkriegs]

So is the 4-6 games (pre season, maybe 1 or 2 reg season) at the new Coli still a thing or is that not happening?

Nope, pure PR move.

 

[lorwood]

A lot of people are going to be very disappointed when they see what $130 million bought.

Think you might be on to something. Have a few journeymen working for me who have been on the project. Seems the biggest items are bringing the place up to current ADA code. Other than asbestos abatement its just seats and paint. Apparently the plan calls for literally walling off one end making the place a horseshoe and leaving a ghost section of the arena. This will be pretty cool if they leave it as a time capsule.

 

[Strummergas]

Think you might be on to something. Have a few journeymen working for me who have been on the project. Seems the biggest items are bringing the place up to current ADA code. Other than asbestos abatement its just seats and paint. Apparently the plan calls for literally walling off one end making the place a horseshoe and leaving a ghost section of the arena. This will be pretty cool if they leave it as a time capsule.

Are you serious about the horseshoe plan? Holy ****, I don't know if I could handle it if that's true.

 

[doublechili]

Think you might be on to something. Have a few journeymen working for me who have been on the project. Seems the biggest items are bringing the place up to current ADA code. Other than asbestos abatement its just seats and paint. Apparently the plan calls for literally walling off one end making the place a horseshoe and leaving a ghost section of the arena. This will be pretty cool if they leave it as a time capsule.

Well forget about an AHL team then. No one is going to go to a hockey game in a "horseshoe" arena.

 

[denis]

That's a load of fecal slang. The Isles need a well managed arena and seating to said arena along with advertising, better food, more ameneties and a faithful fanbase intent on participating.

Barclays has almost all of that. They lack seating and the obstructed views and commute are a turn off to a large portion of the fanbase (though many still go).

The up-do is similar to what Tampa got on the cheap - a very successful refurb on an arena without major structural changes.

That generated a sales uptick and the age old truth - more fans, better advertising.

So you're actually telling me the NVMC being made to look more appealing and with the planned improvements on food and facilities is going to fail why? Are they not going to get advertising revenue with any success in revenue growth? Is this one of those silly 'burbs-make-poopy-doop' posts I so love reading?

If they go back to the original seating, there are more seats. The only lacking, in this renovation, would be luxury boxes.....

so who does this hurt? Not the team.

Not the arena operations.

The Barclays has dates filled with or without the Isles.

They have TWO arenas now, though.....so they have 728 dates to fill now. Now if a modernized arena with the fanbase being in the realm of the old arena were to add significant revenue to the company and Barclays adds revenue with 41+ open dates for concerts and boxing and so on.....where is your logic? They want to fill Barclays and not use the modernized arena better suited for hockey that can charge more per ticket now and has similar choices in food and beverages (we presume) and only use the renovated arena for monster trucks and concerts WHY?

Because they want the MAJORITY of fans to help fund the MTA?


Now onto the lipstick on a pig......do you have issues with the concrete, the accoustics, the empty space in the arena corridors or the yet to be renovated bathrooms? The carried over refrigeration or the concrete outside? Because everything else will be remodeled. So does a bare bones arena getting a new facade and seating and everything else stay a "pig" because of some spiritual carry over, like a friggen entity will possess it? Amityville Horror like pig thing?

I love the trolling.


And the LIRR expansion is a significant infrastructural change, but hey, I don't want to get picky.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zemk1rVkmuZo.kI2TLJdf7iVY&hl=en_US

Geez. Talk about fecal slang, but then what else could we expect from someone who swore that the Isles would never move to Brooklyn and that the court mandated replacement of the 100 level seats was the start of an on the cheap refurb that would keep the Isles at Nassau.

Wrong then, wrong now.

It's not about the number of seats. It's about the amount of money the butts in those seats bring into the building. You can beat your chest about Long Island all day and all night, and project what a $130 million paint job will or won't do, but we have near a half century of history to judge by, and the sad fact is that for most of that time, the building could not generate the money to support an NHL franchise -- it's why the hunt for the new building goes back to the early 1990s.

Saying the only thing lacking is luxury boxes is like looking at a corpse with a hole in its chest and saying the only thing missing is the heart. It's a big ****ing deal.

And that's not even where it ends. The missing infrastructure changes extend to things like the single concourse design -- originally intended to handle crowds of up to 14,500 or so, not 16,000 plus. Even basic necessities such as bathrooms are not being significantly addressed, unless you think it's just peachy to have the only "major league" sports facility to include porta potties among it's bathroom inventory.

As far as Barclays filling the dates with or without the Isles, you probably missed the part where Barclays concert bookings dropped 50 percent last year, tanking their revenue to debt service ratio. In December, Moodys issued guidance that essentially credited the Isles moving there with preventing the Barclays arena bonds from dropping to junk status. As long as the deal is revenue positive for Barclays, there is literally no way they can afford to relocate the team to Nassau. None, unless you think they are going to risk a $1 billion dollar arena with bond holders to keep happy to support their $130 million one. Right.

As far as that LIRR spur, I'd like to know what fantasy you followed to come up with that. Yeah, some LIRR neophyte spitballed something like that a couple of years back, but it was DOA. It has to go through the politically connected town of Garden City, the same people that used their influence with the TOH to kill the Lighthouse over fear that a rail line -- even though one was not even being proposed -- through their back yards would disrupt their "quality of life" and bring undesirable elements into the area. It will never, ever, EVER happen. This is the capital of NIMBY; the LIRR is trying to add a desperately needed third line to the main line and it is being thwarted at every turn by community opposition, and you think that there's a chance in hell of this being built. Please share what you are smoking (or drinking).

 

[lorwood]

Are you serious about the horseshoe plan? Holy ****, I don't know if I could handle it if that's true.

About a cheap a project as you can get. The exterior skeleton is literally just shiny lightweight framing bolted into the existing exterior concrete. The big plan for the interior is to repaint the rafters and put some lighting on them. It's true suburban track housing mentality. Heard there is very little interest in the adjoining storefronts as rents are already to high in the area and there is a current overstock of storefront.

 

[doublechili]

About a cheap a project as you can get. The exterior skeleton is literally just shiny lightweight framing bolted into the existing exterior concrete. The big plan for the interior is to repaint the rafters and put some lighting on them. It's true suburban track housing mentality. Heard there is very little interest in the adjoining storefronts as rents are already to high in the area and there is a current overstock of storefront.

I can see it now.

NVMC with rusting "fins"
Check-cashing place
Dollar Store
"We Buy Gold" store
discount liquor outlet

Meet me at the Lighthouse!

 

[Bones45]

And the LIRR expansion is a significant infrastructural change, but hey, I don't want to get picky.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zemk1rVkmuZo.kI2TLJdf7iVY&hl=en_US

Garden interlocking? I LOVE IT!!!

https://www.sny.tv/islanders/news/bettman-isles-are-doing-well-in-brooklyn/171865420

Love the fact that the only good things that anyone can point out about the arena in Brooklyn is that you have a timely experience when taking a **** or stuffing your fat ass face. Copious amounts of overpriced toolbag beer too.

How about watching some hockey? Oh right -- yea -- that experience sucks.

Well forget about an AHL team then. No one is going to go to a hockey game in a "horseshoe" arena.

Good thing. I suspect that would be mocked eternally.

About a cheap a project as you can get. The exterior skeleton is literally just shiny lightweight framing bolted into the existing exterior concrete. The big plan for the interior is to repaint the rafters and put some lighting on them. It's true suburban track housing mentality. Heard there is very little interest in the adjoining storefronts as rents are already to high in the area and there is a current overstock of storefront.

Wait a minute, I have to say that I just finished replacing the light/fan in my bathroom and repainted.

Now, its pretty boss.

 

[Fist of Gillies]

Geez. Talk about fecal slang, but then what else could we expect from someone who swore that the Isles would never move to Brooklyn and that the court mandated replacement of the 100 level seats was the start of an on the cheap refurb that would keep the Isles at Nassau.

Wrong then, wrong now.

It's not about the number of seats. It's about the amount of money the butts in those seats bring into the building. You can beat your chest about Long Island all day and all night, and project what a $130 million paint job will or won't do, but we have near a half century of history to judge by, and the sad fact is that for most of that time, the building could not generate the money to support an NHL franchise -- it's why the hunt for the new building goes back to the early 1990s.

Saying the only thing lacking is luxury boxes is like looking at a corpse with a hole in its chest and saying the only thing missing is the heart. It's a big ****ing deal.

And that's not even where it ends. The missing infrastructure changes extend to things like the single concourse design -- originally intended to handle crowds of up to 14,500 or so, not 16,000 plus. Even basic necessities such as bathrooms are not being significantly addressed, unless you think it's just peachy to have the only "major league" sports facility to include porta potties among it's bathroom inventory.

As far as Barclays filling the dates with or without the Isles, you probably missed the part where Barclays concert bookings dropped 50 percent last year, tanking their revenue to debt service ratio. In December, Moodys issued guidance that essentially credited the Isles moving there with preventing the Barclays arena bonds from dropping to junk status. As long as the deal is revenue positive for Barclays, there is literally no way they can afford to relocate the team to Nassau. None, unless you think they are going to risk a $1 billion dollar arena with bond holders to keep happy to support their $130 million one. Right.

As far as that LIRR spur, I'd like to know what fantasy you followed to come up with that. Yeah, some LIRR neophyte spitballed something like that a couple of years back, but it was DOA. It has to go through the politically connected town of Garden City, the same people that used their influence with the TOH to kill the Lighthouse over fear that a rail line -- even though one was not even being proposed -- through their back yards would disrupt their "quality of life" and bring undesirable elements into the area. It will never, ever, EVER happen. This is the capital of NIMBY; the LIRR is trying to add a desperately needed third line to the main line and it is being thwarted at every turn by community opposition, and you think that there's a chance in hell of this being built. Please share what you are smoking (or drinking).

While I agree with much of what you say here, your argument would have been better without the claim that LI cannot/didn't generate enough to support an NHL franchise. For the 15 years you cite as evidence, I'd argue the Islanders were not an actual NHL team... By operating under the cap while trying to get a deal, Wang was penny wise pound foolish.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Well forget about an AHL team then. No one is going to go to a hockey game in a "horseshoe" arena.

Park a car in the corner of the arena and sprinkle in inappropriately placed cup holders and they will come.

 

[OlTimeHockey]

Garden interlocking? I LOVE IT!!!

The pic is legit. It' on Google Maps.

Love the fact that the only good things that anyone can point out about the arena in Brooklyn is that you have a timely experience when taking a **** or stuffing your fat ass face. Copious amounts of overpriced toolbag beer too.

How about watching some hockey? Oh right -- yea -- that experience sucks.

No place to vape and talk about capitalism/veganism in Nassau, though.

Wait a minute, I have to say that I just finished replacing the light/fan in my bathroom and repainted.

Now, its pretty boss.

But it's not a remodel....you did nothing. You should have ripped the space out of the house and reframed with environmentally sustainable materials and put sod on top of the drywall! Your bathroom is a sham!

 

[OlTimeHockey]

Park a car in the corner of the arena and sprinkle in inappropriately placed cup holders and they will come.

"OK, who brought the Honda?"

 

[denis]

While I agree with much of what you say here, your argument would have been better without the claim that LI cannot/didn't generate enough to support an NHL franchise. For the 15 years you cite as evidence, I'd argue the Islanders were not an actual NHL team... By operating under the cap while trying to get a deal, Wang was penny wise pound foolish.

It goes farther than that. I can't dig up the link (not sure if it's even available on line) but back in the 1980s, there was an interview with Torrey that said that the only way that the Islanders could be in the black would be to make the Stanley Cup finals every year. It's not about the Island, it's about the building -- it was a slap-dash design put up on the cheap largely to preempt the site being used to construct housing, which was an alternate proposed use for the property (some things never change). Heck, true story, the design omitted even a press box -- something the county added in a hurry in the last minute. The original scoreboard was one that was discarded by Hofstra. The team was so desperate for additional revenue streams that they dug into their own pocket to build the few luxury boxes they did have, and to relocate the press box to the rafters so they'd have a few more rows of seats to sell. The site lines were terrific, but virtually every aspect of the design put a hard cap on the amount of money the building could generate. That was a major issue as long ago as the mid 1980s, and became an absolute killer once salaries rose to the level they are today.

 

[MJF]

Are you serious about the horseshoe plan? Holy ****, I don't know if I could handle it if that's true.

The Barclays folks have a horseshoe fetish?

 

[OlTimeHockey]

It goes farther than that. I can't dig up the link (not sure if it's even available on line) but back in the 1980s, there was an interview with Torrey that said that the only way that the Islanders could be in the black would be to make the Stanley Cup finals every year. It's not about the Island, it's about the building -- it was a slap-dash design put up on the cheap largely to preempt the site being used to construct housing, which was an alternate proposed use for the property (some things never change). Heck, true story, the design omitted even a press box -- something the county added in a hurry in the last minute. The original scoreboard was one that was discarded by Hofstra. The team was so desperate for additional revenue streams that they dug into their own pocket to build the few luxury boxes they did have, and to relocate the press box to the rafters so they'd have a few more rows of seats to sell. The site lines were terrific, but virtually every aspect of the design put a hard cap on the amount of money the building could generate. That was a major issue as long ago as the mid 1980s, and became an absolute killer once salaries rose to the level they are today.

Let's not mention the SMG deal which has been removed from consideration. SMG's take on individual ticketing, concessions, etc. was what killed the Isles.

The Isles now pay SMG a flat rate fee annually and can build more luxury boxes at any time should they consider returning.

So the gate attendance means 16k plus coming to a building and spending money.

No other arena has to deal with that!

 

[MJF]

As far as that LIRR spur, I'd like to know what fantasy you followed to come up with that. Yeah, some LIRR neophyte spitballed something like that a couple of years back, but it was DOA. It has to go through the politically connected town of Garden City, the same people that used their influence with the TOH to kill the Lighthouse over fear that a rail line -- even though one was not even being proposed -- through their back yards would disrupt their "quality of life" and bring undesirable elements into the area. It will never, ever, EVER happen. This is the capital of NIMBY; the LIRR is trying to add a desperately needed third line to the main line and it is being thwarted at every turn by community opposition, and you think that there's a chance in hell of this being built. Please share what you are smoking (or drinking).

Any LIRR extension would likely require the developer to subsidize much in the same way the City of New York subsidized the #7 subway line extension to Javits Center. I can't see the MTA and Nassau County paying for what would be a part-time rail service. Not to mention the fact that the current trackage runs along grade level crossing Quentin Roosevelt Blvd and would have to be either elevated or tunneled for the remainder of the trip to the Coliseum . I'm fairly certain the LIRR and TOH will not agree to have the rail link continued at street level.

 

[wellsZe]

Well forget about an AHL team then. No one is going to go to a hockey game in a "horseshoe" arena.

Can't tell if you're trying to crap on Barclays, but have you ever been to the sound tigers arena?
It's a horseshoe set-up.

http://www.websterbankarena.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=205175315
You can't walk around from section 107 to 113. Place isn't as bad as Barclays for hockey
Actually somewhat decent.

 

[denis]

Let's not mention the SMG deal which has been removed from consideration. SMG's take on individual ticketing, concessions, etc. was what killed the Isles.

The Isles now pay SMG a flat rate fee annually and can build more luxury boxes at any time should they consider returning.

So the gate attendance means 16k plus coming to a building and spending money.

No other arena has to deal with that!

SMG is gone. The Barclays folk control the building. Could the Islanders build more boxes out of their own pocket. Sure, if they were ****ing insane and there was anywhere to put them that would not entail a $500 million dollar project to drop the ice floor or rebuild the entire above ground level structure. They are collapsing down the existing boxes because no one wants boxes hung from the sky anymore. And the building as is simply can't support a 16K capacity without the concourse becoming a frozen zone. The whole thing is pure utter fantasy.

 

[Strummergas]

The Barclays folks have a horseshoe fetish?

It's all about the branding.