Is this the year that the #1C/#1D rule of thumb is broken?

[Safarite]

It's a common argument for fans (and people on this board) to say that teams need both an elite #1 Centerman and Defensemen in order to win The Cup. In fact, you'd have to go back all the way to the 05-06 Hurricanes to find a team that did not have both.

However, of the four remaining teams in this playoffs, I'd argue that Nashville is the only team that inarguably has both such players on their team.

Pittsburgh of course has the two headed monster, but no Letang this year.

Anaheim has Getzlaf, but I think an argument can be made that Lindholm (or whoever Anaheim fans consider their best defensemen these playoffs) is not an elite #1 D, or at least not on par with the likes of Doughty, Keith, Lidstrom, Chara, etc.

Ottawa of course has the best defensemen in the world, but I would hardly call Turris an elite #1C.

This isn't a knock on these teams, or their players. I find what they have all accomplished this playoffs admirable and I'd be happy to see any of them win to be honest. My question is simply will the general rule of thumb of needing a #1C and #1D to win a cup be broken this season? And regardless, is there a possibility of this happening either next season or in the near future? Discuss.

Bonus question: Who do you think more valuable, a #1C or #1 D?

Click to read more...

 

[ChiHawk21]

thats why nashville is gunna win.


RyJo and Josi/Subban/Ellis/Ekholm

 

[Jumptheshark]

Sorry no.

Most teams have clear 1D and 1C.

Some say ducks have 2 of each

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

thats why nashville is gunna win.


RyJo and Josi/Subban/Ellis/Ekholm

This. Nashville has arguable two or three #1 D. Ottawa has one. Pittsburgh has zero without Letang, Anaheim is a solid group.
And #1 C>>> you have that big faceoff, 80+ point guy that can elevate your wingers. It's a struggle without one, and we haven't had a legit one since Yashin (Yes yes, Spezza, but he was never a Hart finalist so whatever) though Turris is doing admirably.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Preds are built like a less-dirty version of the 2007 Ducks.

 

[NotYou]

No because Nashville is going to win.

 

[amethyst]

This. Nashville has arguable two or three #1 D. Ottawa has one. Pittsburgh has zero without Letang, Anaheim is a solid group.
And #1 C>>> you have that big faceoff, 80+ point guy that can elevate your wingers. It's a struggle without one, and we haven't had a legit one since Yashin (Yes yes, Spezza, but he was never a Hart finalist so whatever) though Turris is doing admirably.

Good post.

 

[Mrb1p]

This. Nashville has arguable two or three #1 D. Ottawa has one. Pittsburgh has zero without Letang, Anaheim is a solid group.
And #1 C>>> you have that big faceoff, 80+ point guy that can elevate your wingers. It's a struggle without one, and we haven't had a legit one since Yashin (Yes yes, Spezza, but he was never a Hart finalist so whatever) though Turris is doing admirably.

All you guy has is Spezz? Damn, thats being spoiled. The last good 1C weve had is Koivu, and after his knee injury he was never dominant.

 

[Cashville]

ANA should count as having the defense; their corps is top 5 in the league easily imo.

 

[Mrb1p]

Is Ryjo really that much better than Turris? Theres a clear difference, but i wouldnt say any of the two belong in the top 15 of Cs. More like 20's for RyJo and 30s for Turris. Where do we draw the line?

Getzlaf, sid and Malkin are all 1Cs.


Is Josi that much better than Fowler? Again, clear separation, id say both are number one Ds, one is clearly elite and the other one is just outside in the 20s range.

Id say even Nashville dont really belong there. To top it all off, their best player is a winger.

 

[Mrb1p]

ANA should count as having the defense; their corps is top 5 in the league easily imo.

This is not about depth or overall quality, its about having a single player.

 

[Zarzh]

Sorry no.

Most teams have clear 1D and 1C.

Some say ducks have 2 of each

No but that's why Nashville will win.

 

[Safarite]

Sorry no.

Most teams have clear 1D and 1C.

Some say ducks have 2 of each

I have no idea who you discuss hockey with, but the Ducks very clearly do not have two of each. Unless your definition of elite is (which is what I am referring to) is extremely lenient. Also, who is "most" teams? The two finalists in the East do not have one of each. Unless again, your standards are extremely low.

This. Nashville has arguable two or three #1 D. Ottawa has one. Pittsburgh has zero without Letang, Anaheim is a solid group.
And #1 C>>> you have that big faceoff, 80+ point guy that can elevate your wingers. It's a struggle without one, and we haven't had a legit one since Yashin (Yes yes, Spezza, but he was never a Hart finalist so whatever) though Turris is doing admirably.

Nashville's D is certainly stacked, even their non-number ones have been playing phenomenal. Anaheim does have a top 5 D IMO. However, I cant get behind them having a "true" workhorse, #1 Defensemen.

This is not about depth or overall quality, its about having a single player.

Thank you.

 

[tampa pred]

You could make the argument that Nashville did not have an elite center during the regular season, but Joey has stepped up his game and been dominant at times during the playoffs. Preds have elite defensmen in spades.

 

[harmonica]

It's always been about depth and/or hot goalie.

 

[JaegerDice]

No.

1) NSH is going to win, and they meet the criteria

2) Lindholm is an ELITE #1D, so at least 2 teams fall under the criteria.

 

[WesMcCauley]

Lindholm is one of the best shutdown defensemen in the NHL. He is better than Vlasic imo.

 

[BigKing]

The real thing you need is a 2003 draftee. Since the lockout:

Canes - Staal
Ducks - Getzlaf/Perry
Wings - Don't think Quincy or Howard suited up in the playoffs
Pens 2x - MAF
Hawks 3x - Seabrook/Crawford/Buff
Bruins - Bergeron
Kings 2x - Brown/Carter/Richards

Detroit is the only team to not have a 2003 draftee on its roster when winning the Cup since the lock out. Always found this to be interesting as it helps drive home how great that draft was.

Nashville is the team to buck this trend if they win. Only remaining team without a 2003 draftee, although I'm not sure if Carle is still on the roster.

 

[mpp9]

Lindholm doesn't have the offensive tools that other #1 D have.

I'd bet on Nashville this year though. Pens have too many injuries.

 

[Mrb1p]

Lindholm is one of the best shutdown defensemen in the NHL. He is better than Vlasic imo.

He is, but hes not better than Vlasic.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Hockey is an evolving game. When people put absolutes down for success. They are usually broken. It is not a stagnant, it is fluid, certain precepts are regularly broken. #1C, franchise D, #1G, franchise winger.

When you look at Cup winners, all positions contribute to a Cup. There is no #1C or #1D model. No one player or position wins a cup.

Team > individuals

 

[McFlyingV]

He is, but hes not better than Vlasic.

Agreed. He's great, but definitely not better than Vlasic right now.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Fans really love dumb conventional wisdom that's not actually true.

 

[Mrb1p]

Hockey is an evolving game. When people put absolutes down for success. They are usually broken. It is not a stagnant, it is fluid, certain precepts are regularly broken. #1C, franchise D, #1G, franchise winger.

When you look at Cup winners, all positions contribute to a Cup. There is no #1C or #1D model. No one player or position wins a cup.

Team > individuals

Id say every team that won the cup, ever, had atleast a top 30c.

But yes, hot goaltending, depth scoring, scoring from Dsquad, hot special teams are all really important.

 

[Rorschach]

I think the OP has the rule wrong. You need a 1C and 1D with the exception of if you're missing one, you need two of the other, and the one you're missing, you better have quality depth at that position.

For example, Anaheim when they had no 1C and instead had Pronger and Niedermayer, with MacDonald and a rookie future 1C Getzlaf.