Is this the year that the #1C/#1D rule of thumb is broken?

[Mrb1p]

Kesler and Fowler.

Kesler absolutely played like a number one center all year. Constantly shut down the other teams top lines by dominating possession all the while having 58 points and being a top 3 face-off man.

Fowler arguably played better than Lindholm this year, its not totally out of line to say hes at least in the conversation of being a number one d-man.

If Johansen is a number 1C, Kesler has to be too.

 

[Drake744]

If Johansen is a number 1C, Kesler has to be too.

Uh no.

 

[Cashville]

This is not about depth or overall quality, its about having a single player.

It is absolutely about the depth and overall quality; I'm arguing the thesis promoted by the OP is off base. You can't reduce the formula for a champion to two players; I've always thought the notion was overly simplistic and inaccurate.

 

[THall4]

Preds are built like a less-dirty version of the 2007 Ducks.

Except they don't have anyone close to the caliber of player Pronger and Niedermayer were. I mean, Josi and Subban are good....

 

[THall4]

Sorry man but Fisher is not even close to a capable 1B center. I love the dude but he's a bottom 6 vet at best. That's why the very real possibility of losing Jarnkrok to Vegas is extra daunting.

Im a fan of Mike Fisher...but even in his prime was he not even a 2C

 

[Ducks DVM]

Uh no.

14G 47A 61P 54.6 faceoff %/ playoffs 3G 10A 13P 54.3%

22G 36A 58P 57.4 faceoff %/ playoffs 1G 7A 8P 54.3%

One center also gets matched against the top threats on the other team every single night. It looks more like the stat lines for two elite 2C's rather than 1C's though. Certainly not elite 1C's.

 

[Mrb1p]

Uh no.

I would say both of em are ideal 2c.

 

[Cashville]

I would say both of em are ideal 2c.

If RyJo is a #2C, then there are only about 10 #1Cs in the league.

 

[Mrb1p]

If RyJo is a #2C, then there are only about 10 #1Cs in the league.

Sid, Geno, Seguin, JT, JT, Bergeron, Stamkos, Matthews, Mcdavid, Eichel, Getzlaf, Backstrom, Kopitar, Barkov, Scheifele, Draisaitl are pretty much the only ideal 1Cs id say.

 

[playasRus]

Im a fan of Mike Fisher...but even in his prime was he not even a 2C

Fisher has been a top 60 scoring centerman all his career, generally in the top 30-45 range "in his prime" between 2005-2010, until he started hitting injury issues the last 3-4 years. That's a sustained 0.7 ppg. Even with injuries, he still has consistently produced at a ~0.5 ppg pace those years.

Above his top 60 scoring among centers, he's generally above average on the dot, is one of the better PKers, considered defensively responsible/a two way player, hits like a truck, always plays hard and has shown leadership ability all career long.

Not even a 2C in his prime?

 

[Ducks DVM]

Sid, Geno, Seguin, JT, JT, Bergeron, Stamkos, Matthews, Mcdavid, Eichel, Getzlaf, Backstrom, Barkov, Scheifele, Draisaitl are pretty much the only ideal 1Cs id say.

Kopitar? Assuming he's healthy.

 

[Mrb1p]

Kopitar? Assuming he's healthy.

Yep, I was in my way to edit.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Is RyJo really a noticeable step up from Turris?



As for the 1C debate... 16 teams make the playoffs. I've always thought of it as 16 (give or take a few sometimes) guys as true 1C. Then, however many more to round out the number of teams in the NHL.

Basically 16 legit 1Cs, and then 15 1Cs that are not ideal but get the job done. Turris and RyJo would be 1Cs that aren't ideal, but are still 1Cs.

 

[harrisb]

Is RyJo really a noticeable step up from Turris?



As for the 1C debate... 16 teams make the playoffs. I've always thought of it as 16 (give or take a few sometimes) guys as true 1C. Then, however many more to round out the number of teams in the NHL.

Basically 16 legit 1Cs, and then 15 1Cs that are not ideal but get the job done. Turris and RyJo would be 1Cs that aren't ideal, but are still 1Cs.

Turris is a big game player but all 3 top centres for sens fall in that mold. I'd argue in these playoffs that Pageau is our number 1 with Brassard 2 and Turris 3 right now. We basically have 3 2A / 1B centres and the best defenseman in the world so I'd say the pattern is continuing.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Turris is in the Stepan category IMO, fantastic #2C, just short of legit #1C.

It really comes down to consistency with those guys.. most of the time they hang around 55 points and if they have a really good season then they might break 60.

RyJo makes the cut for legit #1C.. He's scored 60 points in 4 consecutive seasons, one of them being 70 point season. (and 27 pts in 33 playoff games)

So to me, Turris is just outside looking in while RyJo is down the list in 1C's.

Kesler has had a great year, but i would have him just outside looking in as well. Literally perfect 2C.

 

[Drake744]

14G 47A 61P 54.6 faceoff %/ playoffs 3G 10A 13P 54.3%

22G 36A 58P 57.4 faceoff %/ playoffs 1G 7A 8P 54.3%

One center also gets matched against the top threats on the other team every single night. It looks more like the stat lines for two elite 2C's rather than 1C's though. Certainly not elite 1C's.

I'm not saying Kesler sucks, I'm just saying on a nightly basis and the ability to make plays individually and for those around him I don't believe he's on the same level as Joey or other #1Cs. They're both good players but when discussions about #1 centers float around I think you'd have a hard time finding many people having Kesler on that list. I'm not saying eeeeeeveryone would have Johansen but I certainly think most would and there would be way more than Kesler. He's just a step below.

 

[Gabriel Landeskog]

The real thing you need is a 2003 draftee. Since the lockout:

Canes - Staal
Ducks - Getzlaf/Perry
Wings - Don't think Quincy or Howard suited up in the playoffs
Pens 2x - MAF
Hawks 3x - Seabrook/Crawford/Buff
Bruins - Bergeron
Kings 2x - Brown/Carter/Richards

Detroit is the only team to not have a 2003 draftee on its roster when winning the Cup since the lock out. Always found this to be interesting as it helps drive home how great that draft was.

Nashville is the team to buck this trend if they win. Only remaining team without a 2003 draftee, although I'm not sure if Carle is still on the roster.

Didn't work for Minnesota.

 

[NickLidstrom]

This. Nashville has arguable two or three #1 D. Ottawa has one. Pittsburgh has zero without Letang, Anaheim is a solid group.
And #1 C>>> you have that big faceoff, 80+ point guy that can elevate your wingers. It's a struggle without one, and we haven't had a legit one since Yashin (Yes yes, Spezza, but he was never a Hart finalist so whatever) though Turris is doing admirably.

Spezza was %100 an elite centre. He may not have been a Hart finalist but he finished 4th (literally one spot back of being a finalist) in 2012.

 

[scb23]

Hindsight affords you the benefit of calling them elite - Stanley cups tend to have that effect on players. For example, Lindholm may not be widely considered an elite #1D, but if they go on to win the cup I guarantee this label will get attached by virtue of him being the #1D on a Stanley Cup team. Same can be said about RyJo.

 

[BigKing]

Didn't work for Minnesota.

Having one doesn't mean you win the Cup...it's just that every Cup winner since the lockout has had one on the roster except for Detroit in 2008. All were key players too except for MAF last year.

 

[Mrb1p]

Hindsight affords you the benefit of calling them elite - Stanley cups tend to have that effect on players. For example, Lindholm may not be widely considered an elite #1D, but if they go on to win the cup I guarantee this label will get attached by virtue of him being the #1D on a Stanley Cup team. Same can be said about RyJo.

Lidholm just doesnt have that offensive game (yet?) to be called an elite 1D.

 

[Flair Hay]

Preds look like the best team in the playoffs and Johansen isnt what I'd call a franchise center. So it's certainly possible. Having a strong D like Preds do certainly helps make up for their center depth.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Brassard isn't a #1 centre (far from it), but his career postseason numbers are pretty impressive. He's a different player this time of year. The Sens pretty much have two top-end #2 C's right now. Pageau has also been fantastic.

 

[Daximus]

If RyJo is a #2C, then there are only about 10 #1Cs in the league.

I think the top 30 Cs are 1Cs. Some teams have more than one though.
Sid, Geno, McDavid, Draisaitl, Getzlaf, Kesler, Scheifele, Kopitar, Carter, Backstrom, Seguin, Tavares, Toews, RyJo, Kuznetsov, Wennberg, Monahan, Koivu, Giroux, Eichel, Turris, Bergeron, Couture, Barkov, Horvat, Matthews, Monahan for sure. The rest gets a bit tougher to decipher and becomes a bit more subjective. But there's at least 27 of the 1Cs in the league. The top 10 are probably considered the elite tier but even that is very subjective in some ways.

 

[Mrb1p]

I think the top 30 Cs are 1Cs. Some teams have more than one though.
Sid, Geno, McDavid, Draisaitl, Getzlaf, Kesler, Scheifele, Kopitar, Carter, Backstrom, Seguin, Tavares, Toews, RyJo, Kuznetsov, Wennberg, Monahan, Koivu, Giroux, Eichel, Turris, Bergeron, Couture, Barkov, Horvat, Matthews, Monahan for sure. The rest gets a bit tougher to decipher and becomes a bit more subjective. But there's at least 27 of the 1Cs in the league. The top 10 are probably considered the elite tier but even that is very subjective in some ways.

Monneys so good he gets to be there two times