Is this the worst era of all time for the Canucks?

[Jyrki21]

You just summed up Burke, Nonis, and Gillis as GMs. Now do you get how bad they left the team for Benning?

Burke did one of the more memorable rebuilds in Canuck history. Neither Nonis nor Gillis were in a position to. Weird comment.

 

[Dolemite]

Burke did one of the more memorable rebuilds in Canuck history. Neither Nonis nor Gillis were in a position to. Weird comment.

Burke - Emptied the prospect cupboard with his trades. He’s like a politician - Spends assets to win in the present and let’s the future GMs deal with the fallout. Benning is dealing with that.

Nonis- Wasn’t allowed to do anything as he was relieved relatively quickly and replaced with Gillis. Nonis had zero prospects/empty farm system when he was hired.

Gillis - Incompetency defined. Couldn’t do anything to rebuild or even retool given the time he had. Zero prospects and empty cupboard when he was hired.

Benning - Dealing with the fallout of not only the previous GMs but having to pretty much rebuild the prospect cupboard from the ground up. That takes time. That’s how championship teams are built.

 

[Melvin]

Wow, it's Dolemite.

 

[Dolemite]

Wow, it's Dolemite.

 

[Melvin]

I love not just doubling down on "But Gillis" but adding "But Nonis" and "But Burke" to the mix. Good grief.

Welcome back though. Say hi to Jimson Hogarth for me.

 

[mathonwy]

Two presidents cups, meddling owners, Ron Delorme, cupboards are bare... womp womp

 

[Diversification]

Burke - Emptied the prospect cupboard with his trades. He’s like a politician - Spends assets to win in the present and let’s the future GMs deal with the fallout. Benning is dealing with that.

Nonis- Wasn’t allowed to do anything as he was relieved relatively quickly and replaced with Gillis. Nonis had zero prospects/empty farm system when he was hired.

Gillis - Incompetency defined. Couldn’t do anything to rebuild or even retool given the time he had. Zero prospects and empty cupboard when he was hired.

Benning - Dealing with the fallout of not only the previous GMs but having to pretty much rebuild the prospect cupboard from the ground up. That takes time. That’s how championship teams are built.

Gillis inherited a team from Burke and Nonis that was on the cusp of doing some real damage in the playoffs. Under Nonis (but really Burke because Nonis only parachuted in before the '04 draft) they drafted Schneider, Edler, Hansen. Nonis legitimately drafted Raymond and I guess Grabner. Importantly, Nonis brought in Luongo, Mitchell, Burrows, but did a crap job finding a RW fit for the Sedins.

Gillis proceeded to masterfully put the finishing touches on the team that elevated it for a few years, at least to league juggernaut status. To do so, he mortgaged the future to extend the Cup contention window.

Either he, or more likely ownership, extended that window longer than was wise.

As for Benning, he ridiculously tried to re-open that window when all evidence indicated it was good and closed. That didn't help matters at all. But at the end of the day, as the Sedins declined so did the Canucks. We've been dealing with the fallout of that ever since.

 

[Captain Bowie]

So this thread isn't really about comparing the down eras in our history anymore I guess. Just another thread turned into a Benning argument.

 

[Captain Bowie]

Two presidents cups, meddling owners, Ron Delorme, cupboards are bare... womp womp

Is that a golf joke?

 

[PG Canuck]

Burke - Emptied the prospect cupboard with his trades. He’s like a politician - Spends assets to win in the present and let’s the future GMs deal with the fallout. Benning is dealing with that.

Nonis- Wasn’t allowed to do anything as he was relieved relatively quickly and replaced with Gillis. Nonis had zero prospects/empty farm system when he was hired.

Gillis - Incompetency defined. Couldn’t do anything to rebuild or even retool given the time he had. Zero prospects and empty cupboard when he was hired.

Benning - Dealing with the fallout of not only the previous GMs but having to pretty much rebuild the prospect cupboard from the ground up. That takes time. That’s how championship teams are built.

Are you sure you don't want to include Bud Poile on this list too? Good grief, full of excuses.

 

[PG Canuck]

We can all thank Harry Neale for the team Gillis built - so really, Neale is the one who constructed that 2011 roster. Thank you Harry.

 

[RandV]

I don't know who Dolemite is as he doesn't generally participate on the Canucks board but over the years in threads on the main boards seems to be one of a few posters that any time Gillis gets mentioned is there like a bloodhound to trash on him.

As for the topic any talk about how difficult the situation Benning stepped into is completely mitigated by the endless amount of rope he's been given. While the team wasn't in the best youth position when he took over - as you would expect of a veteran team that won their division 5 years straight, 6 drafts with 5 of them picking in the top 10 is more than anyone should need to turn that sort of a situation around.

Personally of this 'modern' time period we're talking about I think Nonis easily had the most difficult situation to work with. He was expected to keep the ball rolling on Burke's WCE era with a barren farm system at a point where our top players were hitting UFA and demanding top dollars to retain while also about to hit a decline in production, and it was year 1 of the brand new salary cap era with the cap ceiling set way to low (39M). Gillis was by far the superior GM and took us places Burke/Nonis would never have been able to go to, but he also had the advantage Nonis didn't have of being free from the expensive declined stars and having the cap space to be creative and go after a guy like Mats Sundin.

Of course if Nonis was left on his plan for that summer would have been to resign Morrison and Naslund and add prized Swedish free agent Fabian Brunstrom to the team, but still 2005-2008 was going to be rough on whoever took over the team.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Gillis inherited a team from Burke and Nonis that was on the cusp of doing some real damage in the playoffs. Under Nonis (but really Burke because Nonis only parachuted in before the '04 draft) they drafted Schneider, Edler, Hansen. Nonis legitimately drafted Raymond and I guess Grabner. Importantly, Nonis brought in Luongo, Mitchell, Burrows, but did a crap job finding a RW fit for the Sedins.

Gillis proceeded to masterfully put the finishing touches on the team that elevated it for a few years, at least to league juggernaut status. To do so, he mortgaged the future to extend the Cup contention window.

Either he, or more likely ownership, extended that window longer than was wise.

As for Benning, he ridiculously tried to re-open that window when all evidence indicated it was good and closed. That didn't help matters at all. But at the end of the day, as the Sedins declined so did the Canucks. We've been dealing with the fallout of that ever since.

Agree with most of the stuff here ,except for Benning tried to 're-open' the window..That window never closed until it was apparent the Sedins were done.

Like coach Tortorella before him, Benning was hired to 'salvage' what was left of the old core..compete (with the still viable Sedins)..and rebuild...(Ray Ferraro called it serving two masters).

 

[Diversification]

Agree with most of the stuff here ,except for Benning tried to 're-open' the window..That window never closed until it was apparent the Sedins were done.

Like coach Tortorella before him, Benning was hired to 'salvage' what was left of the old core..compete (with the still viable Sedins)..and rebuild...(Ray Ferraro called it serving two masters).

The window was closed. I understand the sentiment of trying to do right by the Sedins and give them another opportunity at the Cup, but that was never a realistic option.

If your opinion differs on this point, that's fine with me. Agree to disagree. This one point of contention accounts for ~90% of the acrimony on this message board.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

The window was closed. I understand the sentiment of trying to do right by the Sedins and give them another opportunity at the Cup, but that was never a realistic option.

If your opinion differs on this point, that's fine with me. Agree to disagree. This one point of contention accounts for ~90% of the acrimony on this message board.

Totally agree that it was closed..I thought it was closed as early as 2012..Also agree that doing right by the Sedins was a dumb idea as well..

We just differ in the belief that the choice to re-open the window was Bennings choice, his alone ..He wasn't hired in 2014 to do a complete rebuild.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Agree with most of the stuff here ,except for Benning tried to 're-open' the window..That window never closed until it was apparent the Sedins were done.

Like coach Tortorella before him, Benning was hired to 'salvage' what was left of the old core..compete (with the still viable Sedins)..and rebuild...(Ray Ferraro called it serving two masters).

yep.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Totally agree that it was closed..I thought it was closed as early as 2012..Also agree that doing right by the Sedins was a dumb idea as well..

We just differ in the belief that the choice to re-open the window was Bennings choice, his alone ..He wasn't hired in 2014 to do a complete rebuild.

yep.

 

[4Twenty]

261-146-51, 2 presidents Trophies, 5 straight playoff appearances, 6th in points, 7th in goals for/goals against = Incompetency defined (oh yeah - Horvat and Markstrom trades have been the biggest rebuilding moves in the organization since - being shitty and drafting high isn't a rebuilding move when you're trying to compete).

175-186-49, tied longest streak in franchise history out of playoffs (while trying to be a playoff team each year), 4th worst record, 4th worst goals for, 7th worst goals against = How Championship teams are built.


Where do these folks come from ffs.

 

[I am toxic]

261-146-51, 2 presidents Trophies, 5 straight playoff appearances, 6th in points, 7th in goals for/goals against = Incompetency defined (oh yeah - Horvat and Markstrom trades have been the biggest rebuilding moves in the organization since - being ****ty and drafting high isn't a rebuilding move when you're trying to compete).

175-186-49, tied longest streak in franchise history out of playoffs (while trying to be a playoff team each year), 4th worst record, 4th worst goals for, 7th worst goals against = How Championship teams are built.


Where do these folks come from ffs.

And 3 years straight the only teams to knock them out of the playoffs were the SC champions.

 

[mathonwy]

yep

 

[vanuck]

One of the three.

Both Nonis and Gillis never had the opportunity.

Burke - Emptied the prospect cupboard with his trades. He’s like a politician - Spends assets to win in the present and let’s the future GMs deal with the fallout. Benning is dealing with that.

Nonis- Wasn’t allowed to do anything as he was relieved relatively quickly and replaced with Gillis. Nonis had zero prospects/empty farm system when he was hired.

Gillis - Incompetency defined. Couldn’t do anything to rebuild or even retool given the time he had. Zero prospects and empty cupboard when he was hired.

Benning - Dealing with the fallout of not only the previous GMs but having to pretty much rebuild the prospect cupboard from the ground up. That takes time. That’s how championship teams are built.

To add to this:

What time was Gillis given to rebuild exactly? They made the playoffs from 2009 through 2013 and won their division each year. He got turfed 1 year later even though he was already advocating for one to ownership after the loss to SJS.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Burke - Emptied the prospect cupboard with his trades. He’s like a politician - Spends assets to win in the present and let’s the future GMs deal with the fallout. Benning is dealing with that.

Nonis- Wasn’t allowed to do anything as he was relieved relatively quickly and replaced with Gillis. Nonis had zero prospects/empty farm system when he was hired.

Gillis - Incompetency defined. Couldn’t do anything to rebuild or even retool given the time he had. Zero prospects and empty cupboard when he was hired.

Benning - Dealing with the fallout of not only the previous GMs but having to pretty much rebuild the prospect cupboard from the ground up. That takes time. That’s how championship teams are built.

...and this is what it looks like when a poster goes over to the dark side.

 

[F A N]

Burke - Emptied the prospect cupboard with his trades. He’s like a politician - Spends assets to win in the present and let’s the future GMs deal with the fallout. Benning is dealing with that.

Nonis- Wasn’t allowed to do anything as he was relieved relatively quickly and replaced with Gillis. Nonis had zero prospects/empty farm system when he was hired.

Gillis - Incompetency defined. Couldn’t do anything to rebuild or even retool given the time he had. Zero prospects and empty cupboard when he was hired.

Benning - Dealing with the fallout of not only the previous GMs but having to pretty much rebuild the prospect cupboard from the ground up. That takes time. That’s how championship teams are built.

No offense but that's a pretty crappy assessment. Burke didn't empty the prospect cupboard with his trades. He just didn't draft all that well. Gillis didn't really rebuild. He also didn't draft all that well. Both GMs built teams that were legitimate Cup contenders though. Burke never could solve the problem of having playoff goaltending and another top 6 forward. Gillis legitimately built the best team in the league that should have won the Cup. Nonis sucked but did trade for Luongo and 2004 was a strong draft.

In terms of building the prospect cupboard, I would rank the above GMs in this order: Benning, Burke, Nonis, and Gillis. But a big part of that was simply spending more years drafting near the top of the draft. Curiously, both Burke and Nonis had excellent first drafts as GMs. Gillis and Benning not so much.

 

[vanuck]

...and this is what it looks like when a poster goes over to the dark side.

Well, if they have cookies fair enough!

 

[Cogburn]

I still hold Gillis in high regard, despite his failure to keep the cupboard full. He gave us one of the most successful runs the Canucks have had.

Burke was incredibly short sighted, and that seems to be his MO. Look at Anaheim, Toronto and even Calgary to an extent. A lot of noise, a lot of talk of "truculence" and no results with no picks or prospects brought in. Remember when Brandon Reid was our highest touted prospect? I do.

Nonis was brought in to clean up Burke's mess when we started to decline. We had more success (prospect wise) then we did under Burke, which is like saying we skated faster then a dead guy, Sedins not withstanding. He remade the team, and plugged a long standing hole in net, and who knows, without a cap we could have been a dangerous team. But these are the times we were living in, and we lost a lot of talent as cap casualties. He didn't do well though. We had major holes that weren't fixed and it cost us.

None of that fixes or excuses Bennings idiocy spree.