Is this the worst era of all time for the Canucks?

[DarrenX]

They needed the rebuild that Burke, Nonis, and Gillis couldn’t do.

Benning is doing a great job. Just because he hasn’t built an undefeated team that’s won cups every year doesn’t mean he’s a bad GM.

Gillis "couldn't do a rebuild"? He never got a chance.
How bad and for how long would the team results have to be before you were willing to concede that Benning was a bad GM?

 

[DarrenX]

Rebuilds don’t happen overnight. How do you not get that?

The Toronto Maple Leafs say hi!

 

[y2kcanucks]

Rebuilds don’t happen overnight. How do you not get that?

I do get that.

Rebuilds involve stockpiling draft picks. Not trading them away. How do you not get that?

 

[Hit the post]

Rebuilds don’t happen overnight. How do you not get that?

Vegas Golden Knights says: "Hold my beer".

Burke turned around the Canucks while being told to cut player payroll significantly (under a no cap environment) and the same time in less time.

Benning got hired last night? Five+ seasons later, amateur scouting department looks to be vastly improved but EVERY OTHER AREA on the team is awful. Benning simply lacks:

 

[vanuck]

Hell the Rangers have done a way better rebuild in a shorter amount of time than us. Just because we've been mired in suckage the last few years due to our GM's idiocy doesn't mean a proper 'rebuild' should be executed this slowly and poorly.

 

[Hoghandler]

Hell the Rangers have done a way better rebuild in a shorter amount of time than us. Just because we've been mired in suckage the last few years due to our GM's idiocy doesn't mean a proper 'rebuild' should be executed this slowly and poorly.

The Rangers have done a great job, but make no mistake about it, luck, and being located in Manhattan is the biggest factor in their offseason.

Kakko was a lucky get, something the Canucks haven't been blessed with.

Panarin, Fox and Trouba were all brought in because they wanted to live in Manhattan and play for the sweater.

Imagine how different that re-build would look if Gorton didn't luck into the lottery pick and the team was situated in Vancouver...

 

[4Twenty]

The Rangers have done a great job, but make no mistake about it, luck, and being located in Manhattan is the biggest factor in their offseason.

Kakko was a lucky get, something the Canucks haven't been blessed with.

Panarin, Fox and Trouba were all brought in because they wanted to live in Manhattan and play for the sweater.

Imagine how different that re-build would look if Gorton didn't luck into the lottery pick and the team was situated in Vancouver...

Elias Pettersson being available to be drafted at 5th overall is luck....

The Rangers made their own luck.

The Rangers have an advantage being in Manhattan, sure, but what do you mean imagine the team is situated in Vancouver? They attracted the #1 RH dman, Jordie Benn left money on the table to come back to BC, they got one of the best UFA powerforwards available. I was told these were great moves, so I don't see why the Rangers couldn't have also made these moves.

And in comparison to Vancouver, we know they were attractive to other free agents as well....team just didn't have the space/

 

[Hoghandler]

The Rangers made their own luck.

The Rangers have an advantage being in Manhattan, sure, but what do you mean imagine the team is situated in Vancouver?

Did the Rangers make their luck? They backed into Kakko on pure luck. That was the biggest addition for them this offseason.

Panarin was their 2nd biggest addition, and he turned down more money elsewhere because he wanted to live in Manhattan.

Trouba didn't want to play in Western Canada and had his sights set on the Rangers, by all accounts.

Fox refused to sign in Carolina and was headed for unrestricted free agency, where he was apparently going to sign in Manhattan.

Jeff Gorton has done an excellent job. But make no mistake about it, if he was the Canucks GM, he wouldn't have obtained any of these 4 players...

 

[y2kcanucks]

Did the Rangers make their luck? They backed into Kakko on pure luck. That was the biggest addition for them this offseason.

Panarin was their 2nd biggest addition, and he turned down more money elsewhere because he wanted to live in Manhattan.

Trouba didn't want to play in Western Canada and had his sights set on the Rangers, by all accounts.

Fox refused to sign in Carolina and was headed for unrestricted free agency, where he was apparently going to sign in Manhattan.

Jeff Gorton has done an excellent job. But make no mistake about it, if he was the Canucks GM, he wouldn't have obtained any of these 4 players...

Vancouver used to be a destination city too.

The Rangers actually went through a rebuild. Rather than sitting around and putting Lundqvist ahead of the team, they were aggressive in selling players for picks. This is a Rangers team that has had 9 picks in the top 2 rounds over the last 3 seasons.

Yes, they got lucky landing Kakko, but let's not discount Kravtsov, Lundkvist, and Miller. I'm not big on Lias Anderson or Filip Chytl, but maybe one of them develops into a decent top 6 forward.

 

[Hoghandler]

Vancouver used to be a destination city too.

The Rangers actually went through a rebuild. Rather than sitting around and putting Lundqvist ahead of the team, they were aggressive in selling players for picks. This is a Rangers team that has had 9 picks in the top 2 rounds over the last 3 seasons.

Yes, they got lucky landing Kakko, but let's not discount Kravtsov, Lundkvist, and Miller. I'm not big on Lias Anderson or Filip Chytl, but maybe one of them develops into a decent top 6 forward.

Vancouver has never been a destination city like New York. New York is the place to be, even though the team has been putrid.

Like I said, Gorton has been excellent. He did do a great job acquiring picks, full marks for that.

I'm just not going to pretend any of those 4 players would be Canucks today if he was the Canucks GM. They wouldn't be.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Vancouver has never been a destination city like New York. New York is the place to be, even though the team has been putrid.

Like I said, Gorton has been excellent. He did do a great job acquiring picks, full marks for that.

I'm just not going to pretend any of those 4 players would be Canucks today if he was the Canucks GM. They wouldn't be.

No one is saying those players would be Canucks, especially Panarin. But there are other free agents we have been able to attract. Dan Hamhuis, for example, took less money to come to Vancouver.


What makes the Benning era the darkest period in Canucks history is not necessarily the putrid crap this team has been during his tenure, but the fact that he has also screwed the near future of this team. As it stands, I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel thanks to the monster contracts he has committed, and the future 1st round pick he has given away, on top of the wasted 2016 draft. Those three factors are going to hurt this team for a long time.

 

[4Twenty]

Did the Rangers make their luck? They backed into Kakko on pure luck. That was the biggest addition for them this offseason.

Panarin was their 2nd biggest addition, and he turned down more money elsewhere because he wanted to live in Manhattan.

Trouba didn't want to play in Western Canada and had his sights set on the Rangers, by all accounts.

Fox refused to sign in Carolina and was headed for unrestricted free agency, where he was apparently going to sign in Manhattan.

Jeff Gorton has done an excellent job. But make no mistake about it, if he was the Canucks GM, he wouldn't have obtained any of these 4 players...

They created cap space to afford Panarin...not luck.

They cleared cap/sold vets/embraced a full rebuild...yes I believe they created their own luck. They consciously made moves to tank their season to improve their draft odds. People would be claiming their rebuild was going very well had that player been Byram, Turcotte, Dach, Podkolzin etc

I'll just end this with agreeing with you that Gorton has done an excellent job, because he has, and you make your breaks and Panarin being interested in a big metropolis is one thing, but it's also an attractive young roster....same reason Nyquist was willing to sign in Vancouver.

 

[Jyrki21]

Rebuilds don’t happen overnight. How do you not get that?

When you take no active steps to make one happen, it certainly slows the process down, yes.

 

[4Twenty]

I'm just not going to pretend any of those 4 players would be Canucks today if he was the Canucks GM. They wouldn't be.

Is that even the arguement? Are people arguing that? I mean odds are they don't get the players, but if Gorton was running this team and embraced the rebuild like he has, there is a greater than 0% chance at Kakko for example....all the Canucks had to do was finish 3 spots worse, instead of winning garbage time, to win the lottery from the 6th spot.

My interpretation of the discussion is that the Rangers embraced their rebuild and turned their expectations around quicker than Benning. I'm willing to admit I may be missing some posts that argued this due to my ignore list, but it seems to me like you've created a strawman that people are arguing the team had a chance at those 4 players.....I can't see anyone arguing that/

 

[Spur1]

I do get that.

Rebuilds involve stockpiling draft picks. Not trading them away. How do you not get that?

There is more to a rebuild than draft picks. How do you not get that.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Is that even the arguement? Are people arguing that? I mean odds are they don't get the players, but if Gorton was running this team and embraced the rebuild like he has, there is a greater than 0% chance at Kakko for example....all the Canucks had to do was finish 3 spots worse, instead of winning garbage time, to win the lottery from the 6th spot.

My interpretation of the discussion is that the Rangers embraced their rebuild and turned their expectations around quicker than Benning. I'm willing to admit I may be missing some posts that argued this due to my ignore list, but it seems to me like you've created a strawman that people are arguing the team had a chance at those 4 players.....I can't see anyone arguing that/

Imagine that?...all we had to do was finish three spots worse ,and we would have had Kakko...Benning..what a dum-dum...If we had finished one point higher in garbage time.. we could have had Jack Hughes..

 

[4Twenty]

There is more to a rebuild than draft picks. How do you not get that.

Pro tip: Take more than 10 seconds to reply to a post.

I, for one, am very interested to read your thoughts on what a rebuild is and all that encompasses it. Please, take your time, think it out, write it out carefully and engage in some meaningful dialogue....as of now your one liners are doing nothing for anyone here.

 

[y2kcanucks]

There is more to a rebuild than draft picks. How do you not get that.

That's easily one of the most important parts of a rebuild. How do you not get that?

Listen, stop trying to find ways to blindly support Benning and look at the situation for what it is.

 

[RandV]

Is that even the arguement? Are people arguing that? I mean odds are they don't get the players, but if Gorton was running this team and embraced the rebuild like he has, there is a greater than 0% chance at Kakko for example....all the Canucks had to do was finish 3 spots worse, instead of winning garbage time, to win the lottery from the 6th spot.

My interpretation of the discussion is that the Rangers embraced their rebuild and turned their expectations around quicker than Benning. I'm willing to admit I may be missing some posts that argued this due to my ignore list, but it seems to me like you've created a strawman that people are arguing the team had a chance at those 4 players.....I can't see anyone arguing that/

Basically while circumstances may very from team to team when a GM decides to flip the switch and pursue a rebuild they have a prime 1-3 year window to accumulate assets - trading away as much of your old core when and where you can while they still have value. Ultimately the most essential part of a rebuild is how your top draft picks while you're at the bottom of the standings turn out, but the selling part does happen relatively quickly and gives your rebuild that extra push to stock your farm system with future players and trade assets.

Benning never pursed this strategy, he blew that window and instead did pretty much the opposite. This is why we're in a situation where despite having Pettersson/Horvat/Boeser/Hughes we have to go out and bolster most of the rest of our lineup with free agent signings and vet acquisitions like Miller/Sutter/Ferland/Beagle/Roussel/Schaller/Myers/Benn. You'll be hard pressed to find a group of players like that on successful rebuilds or other top teams.

 

[LuckyDay]

I'd like to point that Vancouver is a destination city for Swedes.

We've always gone aggressively after them when other teams tried to avoid Europeans. It was the same from czechoslovaks for awhile too.

We now have Legacy players scouting for us and finding superstars.

 

[vanuck]

The Rangers have done a great job, but make no mistake about it, luck, and being located in Manhattan is the biggest factor in their offseason.

Kakko was a lucky get, something the Canucks haven't been blessed with.

Panarin, Fox and Trouba were all brought in because they wanted to live in Manhattan and play for the sweater.

Imagine how different that re-build would look if Gorton didn't luck into the lottery pick and the team was situated in Vancouver...

It's not so much this last offseason specifically, but the overall way they've went about making it very clear to their fanbase that they were rebuilding (in a big market too mind you) in order to lower expectations, and intentionally moved pieces out for futures in return.

Landing Kakko with the 2nd overall pick was of course lucky, but as mentioned in this thread earlier you have to make your own luck as well. We've just done little to almost nothing of the sort of rebuilding moves they have in comparison.

 

[Dolemite]

When you take no active steps to make one happen, it certainly slows the process down, yes.

You just summed up Burke, Nonis, and Gillis as GMs. Now do you get how bad they left the team for Benning?

 

[vanuck]

You just summed up Burke, Nonis, and Gillis as GMs. Now do you get how bad they left the team for Benning?

You realize that 2 out of those 3 guys never even got the chance to rebuild right...?

 

[Diversification]

I'd like to point that Vancouver is a destination city for Swedes.

We've always gone aggressively after them when other teams tried to avoid Europeans. It was the same from czechoslovaks for awhile too.

We now have Legacy players scouting for us and finding superstars.

I think there's some truth to that. And they should continue to foster it as it almost certainly derives from word of mouth from prominent Swedes over the years that have spoken well of their experience.

As someone who lives just outside NYC and works in Manhattan, I can speak with firsthand experience that there is definitely a built-in structural advantage when it comes to recruitment. The biggest factor, I've found, isn't the spectacle (shows, concerts, museums, shopping). Rather, it is the role of the trailing spouse/family in the decision making process.

New York is so big that it has depth in just about every major field: banking (obv), advertising, tech, film, biotech, academia, tourism, dining, etc. This makes the two body problem much easier to solve in terms of finding a suitable position both partners. Also, there's specialized schools for most major languages: Russian, Japanese, Chinese, French, German where their kids receive immersion education that facilitates when they move back.

 

[Dolemite]

You realize that 2 out of those 3 guys never even got the chance to rebuild right...?

One of the three.