Speculation: Is there consequence to losing?

[Fjordy]

I think Dahlin gets that, from the way everyone talks about his competitiveness and for the first time since Dom was a Sabre, hearing about someone who puts in as much work to get better as he does regularly.

Right now, they've learned some hard lessons in their record. The comment from Granato about them having a terrible practice prior to the Arizona game and then laying an egg - that's a teachable moment if some of these guys are as responsible as they've said they are. They've played some very good games in this losing streak and a couple of stinkers. Getting to the point where they are consistently in games or dictating play has to be part of the growth, and if someone shrinks away from doing what is necessary, that's going to be educational for the front office at least.

As for the wingers for Mitts... Krebs is not Asplund. He doesn't play the game the same way and not for nothing, that's an issue when you have someone who is a finesse shooter not known for his effort plays on the other wing. Vic is what he is - the cement is set. He's a complementary scoring winger who has a lot of warts but is a bonus option for a team that has need of a shooter on the PP who can also have some flashes at 5-on-5 in a depth rather than primary role. What that is worth in trade, I don't know but he's probably the most redundant player on the team since they have a couple of wingers who can do some of what he does (score finesse goals at range) in Peterka and especially Quinn who are also both more physically involved. Casey has to be the net-front guy on that line AND the defensively responsible one. With someone who doesn't go to the net and another player who is very much a pass-first player, the line is ill-constructed. With that said, without getting Okposo and even to a lesser extent Girgensons, they don't have the defensive blanket to put into that line unless it is Asplund and then Krebs is back in the middle on the "4th" line. Hinostroza won't really help that line - he's a bit like Krebs in that he will drive his wing with speed but is not a very good defensive player to cover for his teammates.

Mitts needs some kind of physical player on the line who can play defensively and score some goals. I don’t know who would be his second wing, but one could experiment with Quinn, Peterka or Tuch, for example.

 

[Chainshot]

One other consequence to the struggles they are having might be that Adams begins looking for players who break the mold of what appear to be "his type" in terms of acquisitions or draftees. There is a clear missing in terms of applied size in the lineup. It can't be left to just a couple of players to be big up front, they need more size and a willingness to use that size to take dangerous areas on the ice. The have Nadeau and Cederqvist in that vein, maybe a stretch to include Bloom in that though it seems like much of what he creates is off the rush with his skating and ability to find breakaways.

 

[Fjordy]

One other consequence to the struggles they are having might be that Adams begins looking for players who break the mold of what appear to be "his type" in terms of acquisitions or draftees. There is a clear missing in terms of applied size in the lineup. It can't be left to just a couple of players to be big up front, they need more size and a willingness to use that size to take dangerous areas on the ice. The have Nadeau and Cederqvist in that vein, maybe a stretch to include Bloom in that though it seems like much of what he creates is off the rush with his skating and ability to find breakaways.

I would pay attention to Nashville, there is clearly Hynes' own atmosphere and there are players who are not popular with the coach or are unhappy with their contract. Although Poile dinosaur, I do not know if he will trade in winter, plus they do not have much space in the cap.

 

[Chainshot]

Mitts needs some kind of physical player on the line who can play defensively and score some goals. I don’t know who would be his second wing, but one could experiment with Quinn, Peterka or Tuch, for example.

I'd like them to let Quinn-Cozens-Peterka bake in as a line. If they move Tuch off Thompson's wing again, we know that Skinner is... well... Skinner. And he needs to have someone hold his hand from the offensive blueline back to his own net. That's normally Tuch for that trio. Maybe they put Okposo there though whatever is bothering him likely isn't going to make him into last year's version. Tuch provides pressure with his speed on the top line, as well as the ability to be both first man in and a defensively responsible player who normally commits to a 200' game in his own end. Thompson is not a center who owns possession in the way that he doesn't need that sort of cover. And if it is, then seems like that would be Asplund and we have seen Asplund's scoring dry up as he's covering for Thompson and Skinner based on last year's time there.

Granato has some options. If he wants to see what he has in Mittelstadt, they need to shuffle that line up and for longer than just a period or two.

At least if Sammy is back, the Power-Dahlin pairing will end and the transition defensemen will spread out now.

 

[Chainshot]

I would pay attention to Nashville, there is clearly Hynes' own atmosphere and there are players who are not popular with the coach or are unhappy with their contract. Although Poile dinosaur, I do not know if he will trade in winter, plus they do not have much space in the cap.

Yeah, Poile has a type he likes for his lower lines and that involves putting a body on a body.

I still come back to what is going on with Fabbro. It seems there is definite tension with the coach with him being a healthy scratch a few weeks ago, his RFA status and how he's never really gotten going in Nashville. But he's still their #4 and his numbers are pretty average. Which... having watched the collection of AHL and tweener folks rotating into heavy minutes in Buffalo makes me wonder. Josi and Ekholm get a lot of the O-zone stuff. Lauzon and Carrier get the d-zone stuff so is it Fabbro getting slush time? It's something I have tried watching more and just don't know if it's a lack of trust from the staff of better results with others. That said, he fits the age and shouldn't be a bank-breaker in RFA IMO.

 

[Fjordy]

Yeah, Poile has a type he likes for his lower lines and that involves putting a body on a body.

I still come back to what is going on with Fabbro. It seems there is definite tension with the coach with him being a healthy scratch a few weeks ago, his RFA status and how he's never really gotten going in Nashville. But he's still their #4 and his numbers are pretty average. Which... having watched the collection of AHL and tweener folks rotating into heavy minutes in Buffalo makes me wonder. Josi and Ekholm get a lot of the O-zone stuff. Lauzon and Carrier get the d-zone stuff so is it Fabbro getting slush time? It's something I have tried watching more and just don't know if it's a lack of trust from the staff of better results with others. That said, he fits the age and shouldn't be a bank-breaker in RFA IMO.

Yes, Fabbro plays 16 minutes and is stuck in the third pair. Although I mostly talked about Trenin and Tolvanen.

Yakov is a very hard-working forward, plays physical game and defense, scored 17 goals last season, but was not satisfied with the current contract and considered that the management underpaid him.

Tolvanen is also interesting, he is not as physical as Trenin, although he can check, plus he seems to be able to play defensively and he has a hidden shot, maybe a coach like Granato could help reveal him.

Trenin/Tolvanen - Mitts - xxxx

Samuelsson - Dahlin
Power - Fabbro

 

[jd1970]

The Sabres are very poorly constructed, yet these clowns got extensions. Pegula don't care.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

The Sabres are very poorly constructed, yet these clowns got extensions. Pegula don't care.

Would you have preferred they continue to cycle through GM's and Coaches every 2 or 3 seasons?

 

[Chainshot]

The Sabres are very poorly constructed, yet these clowns got extensions. Pegula don't care.

Eh, we kind of knew that going into this season. Right now is figuring out what is need, cut redundant or non-performing guys, and build. It's not pretty - kind of like resorting the garage. They have everything taken out and all the junk is on display.

 

[cardiffgiant]

Does trying to one up each other about how angry you make you feel better?

It doesn’t make me feel worse

 

[enthusiast]

Mentioned this in the last gbu and while Chain(?) rightly offered that the youth might get cycled through Rochester, I still have to wonder what the bigger picture stakes are here.

Granato just got extended, so he’s almost certainly locked in regardless of team performance.

Adams seemingly constructed a roster that simultaneously allowed players room to grow while also almost certainly not being competitive, so he probably has leeway for this season too.

Underperforming vets either can’t be moved or won’t be moved for locker room reasons.

Does the Sabres’ record really matter to anyone? Clearly some guys need to play for their contracts or nhl status, but has this losing streak put any meaningful pressure on anyone?

I wish I didn’t still feel this way a year later!

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I'm not upset about young players needing time to develop. I'm upset that veterans have been as much of the problem as rookies or even moreso. I'm upset that the team looks SO inept without the puck that just maybe Granato et al are not up to the job of coaching this team.

I have no recollection of making this post, but holy @#$% I could've posted this last night, not 13 months ago.

 

[Ace]

We’ve seen 11 years and counting of the consequences. Empty arenas, absentee owners, no plan on defense, all eggs in one future basket in goal.

Winning not only doesn’t matter to anyone there now…it won’t next year either. They’ll have to luck into winning before anyone cares that it’s happening.

It is now next year…and…yep

 

[BB79]

Problem with trying to bring in veterans is

A) Who the f*** would want to sign in Buffalo as a veteran right now?

Corey Perry probably wouldn't even sign here

In all seriousness, the culture of this franchise is rotten to the core. Ever notice that players who do ok here but never live up to their hype flourish once they move on? Eichel, Ullmark, Lehner, Reinhart etc..Dahlin would probably look like Bobby Orr if he was on a team like Vegas or Colorado.

 

[Jim Bob]

Graham: As Sabres’ play hits crisis levels, they need to take accountability. They’re not

Buffalo crumpled like tissue paper to one of the NHL’s worst teams because it remains one of the NHL’s worst teams.

theathletic.com

The point is that after getting utterly destroyed by a feeble opponent, after hearing chants for their coach to be axed at Christmas, it would have been an encouraging sign of unity and fight (i.e. accountability) to see an entire team ready to face questions together rather than scurry for the showers.

I reached out to Hall of Famer Scotty Bowman to ask what his policy was after one of his teams had its jock handed to it.

“I did not have any set rules except, after a loss like that, I would expect my players to face the music,” Bowman said via text. “But I don’t think coaches have the same relationship in their authority over the players with the exception of ice time anymore.”

Hey, maybe that’s too old-school. So I also texted an NHL executive who was a captain during his playing days.

“New generation,” he replied. “Nobody wants to be accountable anymore. These guys are tough to find nowadays.”

So there Sabres captain Kyle Okposo stood, seething through his gritted teeth for much of the nearly seven minutes he answered difficult questions such as whether his teammates quit Tuesday night or have tuned out Granato or even give a damn.

 

[Jim Bob]

Sabres under Terry Pegula

- 362-466-116
- .445 points % (worst in NHL)
- 0 playoff appearances
- 11 losing seasons

 

[SabresFan26]

 

[SwordsgoneWild]

Sabres under Terry Pegula

- 362-466-116
- .445 points % (worst in NHL)
- 0 playoff appearances
- 11 losing seasons

We made it a couple months after he bought the team but it's been desolation ever since. Taking a Flyers team with insanely terrible goaltending to 7 games where we were promptly embarrased in G7 ( After we were up in that series 3-2) was the highmark of his ownership. . Dude either needs to sell or hire someone who knows wtf they're doing for once. But we all know that will never happen so we will continue to be stuck in hockey purgatory.

 

[BB79]

View attachment 787352

Vegas sits at 288 wins since 2017-18 to today. Give them 2 more years they should pass us.

 

[RefsIdeas]

Derek Roy mentioned this on ATW and I think it's true - sometimes benching a player does send a message. Yet Granato never does.

I often think back to the 06-07 Sabres. Drew Stafford bounced around from Rochester to Buffalo a bit - but really had to prove that he belonged to stay in Buffalo. He was a first round pick (13th ovr), played three years of college and was already 21 years old that year (same age as Peterka + Power, one year younger than Quinn, Krebs, Cozens).

Finally towards the end of the season he proved that he was just too good for the AHL, and I remember RJ had a call something along the lines of "he won't be seeing Rochester again".

Why do I bring this up? Drew Stafford wasn't handed anything. He was a high first round pick who was guaranteed nothing. He was benched + sent back down to Rochester multiple times as a 21 year old. Finally, he "got it" and stuck in Buffalo. Hell, even Tyler Myers was benched after winning the Calder. When has that been the case here? We've brought up rookies for a cup of coffee and hardly play them. Or we hand roster spots to our young guys, have no depth to replace them in case they suck, and they don't get benched/demoted.

JJ Peterka is supposed to mess up. Owen Power will likely struggle. Cozens can go through rough patches. But we hand them big contracts, don't take away ice time, never demote them (I know that window has passed for a lot of the players - but it didn't have to) and never bench them. Yes, I'm sure they go over it via video and whatnot - but it's clear the message isn't being sent clear enough.

It's a part of the problem that letting the youth develop in the NHL that's always rubbed me the wrong way. We had so many chances to fill our roster with quality, experienced veterans either via FA or trade, but handed everything to our young guys instead. Look around the NHL at all of the other quality teams. They tend to only have 1-2 "young" guys and force them to earn every minute of ice time. They'll insulate their young guys by having a team full of experienced veterans. But in Buffalo - our guys can get handed 7 year contracts on the hope they'll be better in the future, and force them to be an every-night contributor whether or not they're ready to do so.

I do believe that Granato + Adams have good intentions, but the nice guy act doesn't cut it in the NHL. It's a cut-throat business. Yet we're afraid to ruffle one single feather. There is no consequence to losing - but there needs to be.

 

[Chainshot]

Dahlin leaving the dressing room last night adds to my concern about his off-season preparation and both together make me question if he really does get it.

 

[tsujimoto74]

I've went from "I can't wait to watch the game tonight!" to "I don't f**king care anymore" within a span of a month...

Its the same old song and dance.. Start the season out hot and give fans hope to going on a bad losing streaks

Yeah, last season got me to actually like watching Sabres hockey again. The games were fun and exciting, and we won enough of them to keep me engaged. That’s gone right back out the window this season. The Sabres are definitely losing fans the longer they keep spinning their wheels, and I don’t think they’ll all come back if and when the team finally figures its shit out.

 

[sabremike]

Dahlin leaving the dressing room last night adds to my concern about his off-season preparation and both together make me question if he really does get it.

Bookies may as well start taking bets on which team he wins the cup, Conn Smythe and Norris with the season after he gets run out of town.

 

[Chainshot]

Probably the biggest consequence is the loss of season ticket holders and attendance in general.

 

[toddkaz]

Ask Ryan O'Reilly.