Is there a top seven now in international hockey?

[Past Considerations]

I love the USNTDP. I wish every country could financially afford it. The NHL gives millions to USA hockey for the program and nadda to anyone else.

Canada does get money for draft picks but it's no where near what US hockey gets.

Can anyone explain in detail how does this money distribution (from NHL) work?

 

[New User Name]

If we're talking about MODERN success and not living in the past, the USA has had more WJHC success in the past decade than any other country regardless of whether or not they win gold. That's not an accident. It's a country taking over the top spot.

Russia dominated the sport for a while. Then it was Canada. Now it's USA's turn. Not saying it will last forever, but for now the US is producing better hockey talent than any other country.

Do you honestly believe that if all other countries hot housed kids for 2/3 years the US would be as successful at junior tournaments?

 

[Bixby Snyder]

Have to agree with you.

I love the USNTDP. I wish every country could financially afford it. The NHL gives millions to USA hockey for the program and nadda to anyone else.

Canada does get money for draft picks but it's no where near what US hockey gets.

Imagine if there was no USNTDP and the players were drafted into the USHL
Not a chance in hell would the US be as successful as they have been in junior tournaments.

You can imagine anything you want if it makes you feel better, doesn't change the fact the USA will be playing for the gold medal and Canada ends up with nothing. 4th gold in 10 years and 3rd on Canadian soil, been a while since Canada had that kind of success at the WJC.

 

[New User Name]

You can imagine anything you want if it makes you feel better, doesn't change the fact the USA will be playing for the gold medal and Canada ends up with nothing. 4th gold in 10 years and 3rd on Canadian soil, been a while since Canada had that kind of success at the WJC.

Has nothing to do with feeling better. Just stating facts.

The US has a huge advantage over everyone else in junior tournaments. If you think otherwise, you're delusional.

 

[Intangir]

I'd say that any of CAN, USA, SWE, FIN, and RUS can win on any given year. Other countries like the Cech Republic and Switzerland, although really good, haven't really reached the same status internationally as the other 5.

It's sad when you think of it as the Cech Rpublic and mostly Slovakia used to be much stronger in the mid 90s to early 2000s than they are now. For Slovakia, those were the years where they had stars like Hossa, Stastny, Gaborik, Chara, Bondra, Palfy, Demitra and others. For the Cech Republic, those were the prime years of Hasek, Jagr, Nedved, Reichel, Straka, Holik, Bonk and Lang among ohters.

At that time we had a true top 7, with talent much more widespread. Now we have a top 5 and then a group of countries like Switzerland, Germany and the Cech Republic that fight to ascertain their status.

 

[Bixby Snyder]

Has nothing to do with feeling better. Just stating facts.

The US has a huge advantage over everyone else in junior tournaments. If you think otherwise, you're delusional.

Yes, that's good then, what's your problem? Isn't it up to Canada and the other countries to come with a better system, that's how competition works or do you not get it? I really don't understand your constant whining about the USA's system, if it's better than yours then it's up to you to do something about it because we are not gonna handicap ourselves to make Canadians feel better.

 

[canuck2010]

Has nothing to do with feeling better. Just stating facts.

The US has a huge advantage over everyone else in junior tournaments. If you think otherwise, you're delusional.

You do have a huge advantage in the number of dual citizens playing for your country each year based on the number of pro franchises based in the USA. ( 25 NHL, 26 AHL)

 

[Bixby Snyder]

You do have a huge advantage in the number of dual citizens playing for your country each year based on the number of pro franchises based in the USA. ( 25 NHL, 26 AHL)

Yeah, guys born and raised and trained in the USA, how dare they play for their home country. I guess PK Subban should play for Jamaica or where ever his parents are from and Joe Sakic should have played Croatia.

 

[Mestaruus]

Basing this on tournament results for roughly the last 5-10 years. Main point is that Canada is still #1 on both and there's no doubt that Sweden is alone the second best country in seniors, but Sweden is caught by USA & Finland if u count juniors as well.

Only seniors:
1.Canada
2.Sweden
3.Finland, Russia & USA
4.Czech
5.Switzerland
6.Slovakia

Seniors, U18, U20 together:
1.Canada
2.Finland, Sweden, USA
3.Russia
4.Czech
5.Switzerland
6.Slovakia

Finland and USA catch Sweden because they have been super dominating in U18. For example Finland has now 4x straight finals and 2 of those have been gold. USA has done even better for longer.

 

[jesui]

USA is definitely #1 in Jrs IMO

If Finland takes the gold this year, it will be their third gold in six years against usa 1 gold. Canada has two.
I don't think any of them as definetly #1.
If usa wins then it will be 2golds for each in the last 6years.

They are very close for now.

 

[Bear12Good]

Сanada
2)
3)
3)
5) others)

 

[Tuoppi]

Finland could win and be in a relegation series next year so there are more top teams than five.

I would also like to remind you of team Europes second place in the World cup with lot of Swiss, German, Slovak and Danish players.

The Czechs have quantity of players. Always a tough game against the Czechs no matter if it's Men's tournament, junior tournament, EHT or a club competition.

 

[TimeZone]

If we're talking mens best on best

Canada
Sweden
(Small gap)
Russia
USA
Finland
(Large gap)
Czech
Swiss
Slovaks

In that order.

 

[cowboy82nd]

You do have a huge advantage in the number of dual citizens playing for your country each year based on the number of pro franchises based in the USA. ( 25 NHL, 26 AHL)

Are you really going to use dual citizens as a huge advantage for the U.S.? I thought EVERYBODY plays hockey in Canada. Therefore, Canada should have an advantage with the number of players they can choose from.

 

[Gold Standard]

Are you really going to use dual citizens as a huge advantage for the U.S.? I thought EVERYBODY plays hockey in Canada. Therefore, Canada should have an advantage with the number of players they can choose from.

it isn't a huge advantage, hard to quantify, but it is an advantage. Let me know when the kids of American NHL players born in Canada start playing for Team Canada. How many kids of Canadian NHL players born in the US are playing on Team USA this year? 3-4? + a few other nationalities. They are dual citizens, products of the US development system, they should play for the US. I don't begrudge them that. but to say its not an advantage is disingenuous. It is what it was. We have to deal with it.

 

[Brun0]

Id rank the future as next:
Canada
Finland/Usa
Sweden/Russia

 

[smitty10]

Have to agree with you.

I love the USNTDP. I wish every country could financially afford it. The NHL gives millions to USA hockey for the program and nadda to anyone else.

Canada does get money for draft picks but it's no where near what US hockey gets.

Imagine if there was no USNTDP and the players were drafted into the USHL
Not a chance in hell would the US be as successful as they have been in junior tournaments.

The USNDP is the best development program on the planet. If other countries could replicate it they should. I've felt for a while that Canada's program is stale.

 

[New User Name]

Yes, that's good then, what's your problem? Isn't it up to Canada and the other countries to come with a better system, that's how competition works or do you not get it? I really don't understand your constant whining about the USA's system, if it's better than yours then it's up to you to do something about it because we are not gonna handicap ourselves to make Canadians feel better.

Stating facts is not whining.
The development program is the reason for the US success at junior levels.

When the program started back in 1996 it was the smartest thing USA hockey has ever done.

Eliminate it and have those players drafted by junior teams and you wouldn't have the same success.

That said, I love the idea of a US type of development system for other countries. Problem is the NHL funds the USNTDP. Hockey Canada gets $$ for players drafted and signed, which is no where near what USA hockey receives. Though HC has bigger problems that are of their own making.
Finland, Sweden, Russia they get squat.

 

[New User Name]

The USNDP is the best development program on the planet. If other countries could replicate it they should. I've felt for a while that Canada's program is stale.

But we can't. Junior hockey is big business here. You can't handicap existing junior teams by taking the best 16 year olds and build a super team like the US does.
And who is going to pay for it? Do you think the NHL will give HC the same $$ they give USA hockey?

 

[Number 57]

There is a top-4 with Canada, USA, Russia and Sweden

 

[SotasicA]

Id rank the future as next:
Canada
Finland/Usa
Sweden/Russia

Dahlin is better than any Finnish prospect ever.

 

[Bixby Snyder]

Stating facts is not whining.
The development program is the reason for the US success at junior levels.

When the program started back in 1996 it was the smartest thing USA hockey has ever done.

Eliminate it and have those players drafted by junior teams and you wouldn't have the same success.

That said, I love the idea of a US type of development system for other countries. Problem is the NHL funds the USNTDP. Hockey Canada gets $$ for players drafted and signed, which is no where near what USA hockey receives. Though HC has bigger problems that are of their own making.
Finland, Sweden, Russia they get squat.

Okay, cool. Do you have a source to back your claim USAH gets more money from the NHL than HC does? And why shouldn't the NHL fund USAH, the NHL is an American based league after all?

 

[Gsus]

I don't think RUS is over Finland anymore. Sure, they have great adult players and couple of prospects, but international play in both groups suggest they're equal. At least in the same tier.

 

[New User Name]

Okay, cool. Do you have a source to back your claim USAH gets more money from the NHL than HC does? And why shouldn't the NHL fund USAH, the NHL is an American based league after all?

There was story a few years ago about the difference in moneys to USA hockey and HC. The link doesn't work anymore....ya ya I know, you'll say convenient.

I did find this though.

NHL quietly helped USA Hockey fund women

"We already direct a large amount of support dollars to USA Hockey on an annual basis to promote hockey development in the U.S.," said NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly, in the league's first public confirmation of the payment.

By the way, I'm not complaining. I have no problem with the NHL funding USA hockey.

 

[Bixby Snyder]

There was story a few years ago about the difference in moneys to USA hockey and HC. The link doesn't work anymore....ya ya I know, you'll say convenient.

I did find this though.

NHL quietly helped USA Hockey fund women




By the way, I'm not complaining. I have no problem with the NHL funding USA hockey.

Alright, I sure hope what you say is true since most of the NHL teams are American they should be funding USAH more.