Is Patrice Bergeron a HOF Candidate ?

[wetcoast]

Could I dare say that Bergeron has a better case then Jonathan Toews? Really the only claim Toews has over Bergeron is that he's won 3 cups. His Selke record doesn't even come close to Bergeron's. If I had to choose between the 2 players, I'd choose Bergeron even at this stage in his career.

I don't know if I would say a better case, maybe just different but equal.

IMO the voters will see Toews as a winner and in the current top 100 players of all time project we are seeing alot of winners trump equal or even better players who aren't perceived as such.

Jagr is the obvious example here.

 

[wetcoast]

Toews is the king of making me question what we know of older players, particularly if the information regarding the player is almost exclusively from the media of the time.

Dave Keon comes to mind here, as do a host of other players.

 

[ted2019]

Lots of love in this thread for a guy who I'm pretty sure has never finished in the top 20 in scoring

Personally, I never considered him to be a future Hall of Famer

Even defensive stars like Fedorov (2nd), Gilmour (5th) and Datsyuk (4th x2) managed to be among the scoring leaders at various times throughout their careers

You can't compare any of those 3 to Bergeron. Bergeron is on a totally different level.

 

[VanIslander]

Not a lock to date.

Is only 33. Has more to do.

(Don't get Selkes in your eyes. Lehtinen was never even in Hall consideration.)

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Not a lock to date.

Is only 33. Has more to do.

(Don't get Selkes in your eyes. Lehtinen was never even in Hall consideration.)

Once again, Bob Gainey says hi.

And Gainey is a poor man's Bergeron

 

[VanIslander]

The poor man has a dynasty behind him and a lot of credit by Bowman for the team's success.

It's like arguing that Brady is a poor man's Manning.

 

[BobbyAwe]

Maybe we are misunderstanding the parameters of what constitutes HOF induction? As in, it's not necessarily how GREAT a player was, but how FAMOUS he was in his time and/or historically? (after all, it is the Hall of FAME?)

 

[Johnny4778]

1st ballot HOF without a doubt. 4 selkes, 2 Olympic golds, world championship gold, jr world championship gold, World Cup, Stanley cup. Will hit a 1000 points. One of the greatest defensive players of all time, and the one of the best two way 200’ players in his era. Not to mention a class act and true professional. Guaranteed lock for HOF.
For reference ...Bob Gainey is a HOF on a little over 500 points, he won a lot of cups but was on a loaded Montreal dynasty team.

 

[LouJersey]

lock

 

[ImporterExporter]

Not a lock to date.

Is only 33. Has more to do.

(Don't get Selkes in your eyes. Lehtinen was never even in Hall consideration.)

Lehtinen also wasn't near the offensive player that Bergeron is, nor was he the same consistency defensively, although some of that is probably attributed to him being a winger.

I think defensive F's need more recognition on the whole because defense on the whole gets undervalued tremendously in hockey.

I think PB is a lock. In the past 8 years, he's won the Selke 4 times, and been a finalist 4 other times with the past 2 likely being non wins because he only played 60 something games. He's an elite faceoff man. He's an elite possession player. His playoff record is certainly above average.

 

[wetcoast]

The poor man has a dynasty behind him and a lot of credit by Bowman for the team's success.

It's like arguing that Brady is a poor man's Manning.

Lafleur, Robinson, Dryden, Lemaire, Savard and some great depth were probably were more important to that Habs dynasty.

It's pretty much a lock that Gainey could have had the exact same individual career, say with the Washington Capitals, during his NHL time and the question of him being a HHOF type of player would be considered a joke plain and simple.

I admired Gainey as a player but to suggest he is HHOF worthy or deserves alot of credit for the Habs dynasty is a complete stretch if one stops and thinks about it rationally.

 

[82Ninety42011]

Bob Gainey <<<<<< Bergeron and we know Gainey already is in the HOF.

 

[VanIslander]

Bob Gainey <<<<<< Bergeron and we know Gainey already is in the HOF.

I really don't like this.

Even as a kid, Gainey STOOD OUT (was outstanding) in his defensive play. The most you can say about Bergeron - half the time at least - is that he has been sublime.

Bergeron is not Gainey or Carbonneau level of SIZZLE defensively, the question is, is he as much STEAK?

Bowman said if he ever missed a practice due to illness (he never did), he would have Gainey run it. We were not surprised that the league created the Selke award to honor Gainey. Selke said in his autobiography that the defensive play of Nighbor impressed him more than the offensive exploits of any Leaf or Hab he'd managed.

 

[82Ninety42011]

I really don't like this.

Even as a kid, Gainey STOOD OUT (was outstanding) in his defensive play. The most you can say about Bergeron - half the time at least - is that he has been sublime.

Bergeron is not Gainey or Carbonneau level of SIZZLE defensively, the question is, is he as much STEAK?

Gainey might have been slightly better at defense but was nowhere near offensively capable of Bergeron. Mind you Gainey didn't need to score a goal considering his team where as Bergeron is relied on to produce as well. If all Bergeron did was play defense he'd be pretty close if not same as Gainey level checker.

 

[Critical13]

Nah. Loveable guy but not good enough for the Hall. Chars will get in, though.

 

[wetcoast]

I really don't like this.

Even as a kid, Gainey STOOD OUT (was outstanding) in his defensive play. The most you can say about Bergeron - half the time at least - is that he has been sublime.

Bergeron is not Gainey or Carbonneau level of SIZZLE defensively, the question is, is he as much STEAK?

Bowman said if he ever missed a practice due to illness (he never did), he would have Gainey run it. We were not surprised that the league created the Selke award to honor Gainey. Selke said in his autobiography that the defensive play of Nighbor impressed him more than the offensive exploits of any Leaf or Hab he'd managed.

The post you are quoting though has a valid point.

When people stop and think who is the better player Bergeron or Gainey, the answer is clear as day and each season Bergeron widens that gap.

 

[The Pale King]

Carboneau's induction should make Bergeron's case even clearer. It's not like the guy bounced around through Atlanta and Phoenix and Florida. He played his whole career at a high level with an original six franchise. He's in quite easily at this point.

Anze Kopitar is coming off the worst season of his career, but I think he's a closer Bergeron comparable than Toews at this point. Neither guy has played with a dynamo like Kane, and both drive their lines offensively more than Toews. I think Kopitar will bounce back this year, as he's somewhat notorious for yo-yo-ing season to season (at least from an offensive numbers standpoint). His defensive play is always phenomenal though.

 

[Iapyi]

There is no doubt in my mind that Bergeron gets into the HHOF. He brings the full package which is something that inexperienced EA hockey fans don't understand.

 

[Johnny Engine]

There is no doubt in my mind that Bergeron gets into the HHOF. He brings the full package which is something that inexperienced EA hockey fans don't understand.

Come on.
Even the most casual fans know Bergeron has a great two-way game because it's brought up in every single magazine article, TV segment and radio hit that mentions him. They may not be able to identify it in action, but I have yet to encounter a hockey fan who wouldn't at least be able to regurgitate a few talking points about him.

And really, that's why he's a lock. He's one of the handful of guys who every Joe on the street can give you a quick answer about why he's a star.

 

[Iapyi]

Come on.
Even the most casual fans know Bergeron has a great two-way game because it's brought up in every single magazine article, TV segment and radio hit that mentions him. They may not be able to identify it in action, but I have yet to encounter a hockey fan who wouldn't at least be able to regurgitate a few talking points about him.

And really, that's why he's a lock. He's one of the handful of guys who every Joe on the street can give you a quick answer about why he's a star.

I disagree. There are lots of inexperienced EA hockey fans who look at the stat line and nothing else. In any event I don't want to go down this off topic path other than to explain myself on this point.

 

[scott clam]

At this point he is so adored by THN and HNIC and all the rest that he is definitely a lock.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

I don't know how bullish this sub is on the advanced stats but in terms of possession and shot stats, Bergeron is probably the best "ice-tilter" of this generation, probably one of the best ever. Put some talented scorers on his wings, and they will explode in production with all the possession they will get playing with him.

In reply to the "EA Sports fans can't really understand his greatness", I think the answer is a little of both. Most casuals know he is very good at both ends, but he's not just your run of the mill solid two way center, it takes a little more understanding to really recognize how impactful he's been over his career.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Lafleur, Robinson, Dryden, Lemaire, Savard and some great depth were probably were more important to that Habs dynasty.

It's pretty much a lock that Gainey could have had the exact same individual career, say with the Washington Capitals, during his NHL time and the question of him being a HHOF type of player would be considered a joke plain and simple.

I admired Gainey as a player but to suggest he is HHOF worthy or deserves alot of credit for the Habs dynasty is a complete stretch if one stops and thinks about it rationally.

seems like rod langway being traded from montreal to washington and leading their turnaround from doormat to defensive juggernaut (with... pat riggin and al jensen in net) suggests we might actually think more highly of gainey under other circumstances.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Funny how this thread started with Gainey as the bar that needed to be cleared.

Bergeron is easily a bettter candidate than Carbonneau, so we may as well get a plaque ready.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Lafleur, Robinson, Dryden, Lemaire, Savard and some great depth were probably were more important to that Habs dynasty.

It's pretty much a lock that Gainey could have had the exact same individual career, say with the Washington Capitals, during his NHL time and the question of him being a HHOF type of player would be considered a joke plain and simple.

I admired Gainey as a player but to suggest he is HHOF worthy or deserves alot of credit for the Habs dynasty is a complete stretch if one stops and thinks about it rationally.

Lets not forget that Bergeron has had Chara on the ice with him a huge portion of time. Especially with Julien as coach (10 seasons). ES, PK and PP.