Is Patrice Bergeron a HOF Candidate ?

[BraveCanadian]

He’s a slam dunk

 

[JackSlater]

What do you mean by this statement? Do you mean that some of the older players are underrated or overrated?

I'm not taking a shot at older players or trying to boost them. I am saying that I can't put a lot of stock in what the contemporaneous media said about a player relative to his peers, and Toews is probably the finest example of why. If someone from 100 years in the future looks back at how Toews was described in the 2010s by the media and puts a lot of weight on that, that person would inevitably overrate Toews by quite a bit. It can go the other way as well, where doing that may underrate a player like Malkin. I do think that contemporaneous reports are better than nothing however, particularly with regard to how a player played as opposed to how well.

What's wrong with Toews' prime years? He was the undisputed 1C on a team that won 3 Cups. He won a Smythe and a Selke, and none of those awards were robbed from someone else. He's made great showings internationally. He's been a consistently good goal scorer (11 straight seasons with 20+ goals, despite lockout shortened years and injuries). Best centers behind him in CHI during the Cups were Bolland (very good playoff performer, but come on, CHI won a third without him) and twilight/washed up B. Richards. Not exactly a Sakic/Forsberg, Fedorov/Yzerman, Crosby/Malkin situation. Even Bergeron had a guy/2C (Krejci) who could carry most of the scoring. Ask any VAN fan if Toews was a difference maker or not. That SH goal in game 7 in 2011 with a minute to go, to tie the game...

People need to chill with the hyperbole. Yes, I know he posed in a picture with Gretzky, but who cares?

You're taking a run at a windmill I never erected. I'm not saying that Toews was bad or even that he wasn't great. I am saying that he was clearly overrated by the media and that looking primarily media reports regarding Toews would lead to an inaccurate picture of how good he was. There is a pretty sizable gap between "just an average player" and "as good as the media portrayed Toews as".

 

[Thenameless]

Bergeron is a lock.

The only thing that hurts him is that he's a quiet, unassuming guy who does the important things well, but is not the best at the flashy, glitzy stuff. Because of this, he doesn't get a lot of media attention. But, in terms of hockey ability and results of play, he is absolutely deserving of a place in the Hall.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Bergeron is a lock.

The only thing that hurts him is that he's a quiet, unassuming guy who does the important things well, but is not the best at the flashy, glitzy stuff. Because of this, he doesn't get a lot of media attention. But, in terms of hockey ability and results of play, he is absolutely deserving of a place in the Hall.

most telling proof of that is his advanced stats are absurd.

career #s:

CF = 57.7
CFrel = 6.7
FF = 57.6
FFrel = 6.9
52.0% dZone start
ES on ice GF/GA: 552/381

Hell, the man has multiple seasons with a positive CFrel on the PK!

 

[Don Nachbaur 26]

Definitely. Love his game and he's highly respected amongst his peers.

 

[Rygu]

Bergeron and Toews will both make the HoF easily.

 

[wetcoast]

most telling proof of that is his advanced stats are absurd.

career #s:

CF = 57.7
CFrel = 6.7
FF = 57.6
FFrel = 6.9
52.0% dZone start
ES on ice GF/GA: 552/381

Hell, the man has multiple seasons with a positive CFrel on the PK!

I agree but I really wonder if those on the committee even look at advanced stats.

Maybe they will in the future.

 

[tony d]

Yeah he is. It could be argued he's the best 3rd line centre in NHL history.

 

[sr edler]

He’s a slam dunk

 

[ted2019]

most telling proof of that is his advanced stats are absurd.

career #s:

CF = 57.7
CFrel = 6.7
FF = 57.6
FFrel = 6.9
52.0% dZone start
ES on ice GF/GA: 552/381

Hell, the man has multiple seasons with a positive CFrel on the PK!

What in the hell are CF/CFrel, FF/FFrel ?

 

[CamPopplestone]

Even if his career ended today, he's a lock in my mind. And I hate the Bruins, but looking at it objectively, the guy just wins, and he's one of the best two way centres of all time. Might not be as flashy as some others, or put up as many points, but his offense didn't suffer from his defensive play, and I think he's arguably the main reason Boston has remained relatively decent since the cup win.

 

[MadLuke]

Hell, the man has multiple seasons with a positive CFrel on the PK!

If I understand what CFrel probably mean (your corsi relative of what your team did when you were not on the ice) that must be really common, even a necessity to being called an above average PK killer.

Max Pacioretty and Plecanek did it really often in Montreal.

 

[Michael Farkas]

What in the hell are CF/CFrel, FF/FFrel ?

Don't worry about it haha

 

[Newsworthy]

Yes.

 

[Paul4587]

Hell, the man has multiple seasons with a positive CFrel on the PK!

Which would be normal for any forward who is an above average PKer... that’s not a remarkable feat or anything.

 

[Neutrinos]

Lots of love in this thread for a guy who I'm pretty sure has never finished in the top 20 in scoring

Personally, I never considered him to be a future Hall of Famer

Even defensive stars like Fedorov (2nd), Gilmour (5th) and Datsyuk (4th x2) managed to be among the scoring leaders at various times throughout their careers

 

[Big Phil]

Could I dare say that Bergeron has a better case then Jonathan Toews? Really the only claim Toews has over Bergeron is that he's won 3 cups. His Selke record doesn't even come close to Bergeron's. If I had to choose between the 2 players, I'd choose Bergeron even at this stage in his career.

I have said this on more than one occasion. Right now if both retired tomorrow I'd have a hard time picking one over the other. Toews has the better success in the playoffs but I am not sure what direction Toews' career is going to take. Right now if Canada came calling for the Olympics or a World Cup in 2020 we know Bergeron is a lock while Toews is not.

 

[Nick Hansen]

Bergeron also plays on one of the best lines in the game. He's a big part of it but Marchand and Pastrnak aren't exactly sneeze material.

 

[FerrisRox]

4 Selke's in 6 seasons and 2 runner-ups. Top 5 in 9 straight seasons and is a better offensive player then Bob Gainey. Is he a lock at this point?

Unquestionably.

 

[GlitchMarner]

Lots of love in this thread for a guy who I'm pretty sure has never finished in the top 20 in scoring

Personally, I never considered him to be a future Hall of Famer

Even defensive stars like Fedorov (2nd), Gilmour (5th) and Datsyuk (4th x2) managed to be among the scoring leaders at various times throughout their careers

I like and respect Bergeron even though I hate Boston and I think he'll get in, but I also think that his recent uptick in scoring may be masking the fact that for much of his career his scoring hasn't been at an ideal level for a Hall of Fame candidate (for someone who isn't Patrice Bergeron defensively at least).

This season he's sixth in PPG.

However, he has never finished in the top 20 in points per game (min. 40 games) in a season.

His highest PPG finish in a season among players that played at least 40 games is T26th (accomplished last season).

His highest scoring race finish is 18th and he's been a top 20 scorer once.

 

[BobbyAwe]

look at it this way.

if Bob Gainey and his "blistering" career 0.43 ppg playing in the late 70s and 80s = HOF, then Bergeron could retire today and moon walk in

I second your sarcasm concerning Gainey. His absolute LACK of offence doesn't even qualify him as a "two-way" player. Take for instance his highest scoring season of 47 points in 1980-81, a season in which TWELVE other players scored over 100 points and I think Gainey was close to 5oth in points in the league? Some Soviet coach mysteriously referred to him as the "best player in the world" back then and I think that went a long way in bolstering his reputation historically?

 

[solidmotion]

Take for instance his highest scoring season of 47 points in 1980-81, a season in which TWELVE other players scored over 100 points and I think Gainey was close to 5oth in points in the league?

150th, surely - 1980-81 NHL Skater Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[psycat]

Shouldn't be but he will probably be first ballot. Imo very overrated player winning the same 100% reputation based award over and over. Hall of very good for me but as I said I have zero doubt he will get in and quickly at that.

 

[leafsfuture]

Leaf fan here.

There are certain players in the game that when you go up against them you have to specifically game-plan and be aware of them. Bergeron is one of those guys. Despite the fact he has never finished top 20 in league scoring, he is one of the most noticeable and effective players you will ever face.

He is certainly the best all-around player of this era. There is not a single forward in the game who combines defensive prowess with offensive ability better.

He will be in the Hall of Fame and I will be the first to congratulate him

 

[Sorry]

Not a first ballot but he easily gets in.