Speculation: Is our GM Brendan Shanahan or Dave Nonis?

[socko]

He lets "The GM be the GM", even Bob McKenzie said that when the Leafs where about to pick.

I just wish Pat Quinn was still the GM/Coach like back when we had Dryden.

Pat Quinn > Dave Nonis
Pat Quinn > Randy Carlyle

 

[ThrillinPhil]

I just wish Pat Quinn was still the GM/Coach like back when we had Dryden.

Pat Quinn > Dave Nonis
Pat Quinn > Randy Carlyle

Yea I miss Pat Quinn as well. Great hockey mind. Too bad we have goofballs in those positions now. Hopefully both are canned after the Leafs miss the playoffs.

 

[socko]

I bag on Shanahan a little and don't think he's anywhere near ready to be a GM. But if he got us Nylander and prevented us from spending big in free agency, then he has already earned whatever they are paying him. I just wish he could have been here last year to prevent Clarktard.

 

[dimi78]

My belief is that Shanny has taken Burke's old role. He tells Nonis what he wants and lets Nonis make it happen, then runs virtually any move through Shanny before it is made. The one difference and advantage for Shanahan is that unlike Burke, Shanny does not hold the title of GM making his position entirely secure should the moves fail. If Shanny has Nonis make a move and it fails, Nonis is the fall guy.

Close but a little too far. Shanahan represents the bridge between ownership and the hockey club. Shanahan is the boss of the hockey operation wing of MLSE. What this structure has done is that ownership ie the board Tim Leiweke have entrusted the Maple Leafs on Shanahan, with his role he speaks for the owners now what he says go's. When once Nonis, Burke , JFJ, Quinn had to get the OK from the board to do things.

Shanahan isn't here to be the GM. He's here as an apprentice to Tim Leiweke as he learns the business side of the corporation and who Tim Leiweke is leaving all decisions for the hockey wing go through Shanahan as the final say.

Nonis is the GM. His role hasn't changed it's just that his boss now actually knows a thing or two about hockey and not some suit.

 

[Mystifo]

I just wish Pat Quinn was still the GM/Coach like back when we had Dryden.

Pat Quinn > Dave Nonis
Pat Quinn > Randy Carlyle

Didn't Quinn not play the youth/trade them for aging vets?

 

[socko]

Close but a little too far. Shanahan represents the bridge between ownership and the hockey club. Shanahan is the boss of the hockey operation wing of MLSE. What this structure has done is that ownership ie the board Tim Leiweke have entrusted the Maple Leafs on Shanahan, with his role he speaks for the owners now what he says go's. When once Nonis, Burke , JFJ, Quinn had to get the OK from the board to do things.

Shanahan isn't here to be the GM. He's here as an apprentice to Tim Leiweke as he learns the business side of the corporation and who Tim Leiweke is leaving all decisions for the hockey wing go through Shanahan as the final say.

Nonis is the GM. His role hasn't changed it's just that his boss now actually knows a thing or two about hockey and not some suit.

Wouldn't they want a guy with a business degree for the business side? I have to think Shanny is here because he's a big name and we had 3 straight tanks.

 

[dimi78]

Wouldn't they want a guy with a business degree for the business side? I have to think Shanny is here because he's a big name and we had 3 straight tanks.

Then they would be looking for another suit Don't you think? This isn't different then what Colorado has done with Sakic, Calgary with Burke, Vancouver with Linden. Remember he's president of hockey operations... The purpose is to eliminate the board from meddling when they know squat about what needs to be done. Shanahan represents that bridge. All hockey related decisions end with Shanahan not the board anymore.

Edit

Just to add people are confusing the fact that Shanahan is a hockey mind in all this as some threat to Nonis job which is wrong. In fact the GM position in Toronto has never been a better place to work under with Shanahan as the boss. A lot simpler to get point of views and direction with a hockey mind calling the shots than the board don't you all think?

 

[ULF_55]

Wouldn't they want a guy with a business degree for the business side? I have to think Shanny is here because he's a big name and we had 3 straight tanks.

About 3 weeks ago Doug McLean was talking about these "non-GM" Presidents.

He said, they are in reality the GM's, just without the baggage.

Look at Burke in Calgary, said he was going there, but Feaster (the GM who landed all their prospects including Monahan) was not going to be fired.

Yep, sure, Burke fired him and replaced him with no one for half a year.

What?

A team needs a GM!!!!



McLean said he would have loved not being the GM while he was GM.

 

[Maccer]

Didn't Quinn not play the youth/trade them for aging vets?

Pat Quinn assembled the best Leaf teams since league expansion.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Didn't Quinn not play the youth/trade them for aging vets?

that was the reality for a LOT of teams at the time
(doesn't make it right, but it wasn't like we were the only one doing it) - rich teams paid for players, poor teams drafted (and then lost said players).

 

[PuckMagi]

we need a money ball guy.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

I don't think Nonis has much of an ego maybe? He never seemed offended with Shanny coming in, just maybe a little nervous and not completely certain what was going down. He seems perfectly at ease now.

Honestly I was worried about Shanny coming in it seemed totally PR crap. But if he had anything to do with not signing boneheaded contracts with mediocre UFA's this summer, perhaps acting as a voice of patience and more importantly sanity between Leweike and Nonis, then I'm really glad he's here.

It's just a hunch but I'm convinced it was Tim L that pushed the Clarkson thing as it seemed so un-Nonis like.

If Shannahan is acting as a sensible buffer between the meddling boardroom guys and no nuts Nonis that's a good thing.

I'd imagine Nonis is still the guy doing the negotiating and managing the people underneath him who do all the paperwork etc.

 

[dimi78]

About 3 weeks ago Doug McLean was talking about these "non-GM" Presidents.

He said, they are in reality the GM's, just without the baggage.

Look at Burke in Calgary, said he was going there, but Feaster (the GM who landed all their prospects including Monahan) was not going to be fired.

Yep, sure, Burke fired him and replaced him with no one for half a year.

What?

A team needs a GM!!!!



McLean said he would have loved not being the GM while he was GM.

McLean is a tool and frankly is jealous that organizations in hockey are creating management roles to eliminate themselves from the decision making for the team. In his day as is the case still with many teams the GM answered to a suit to get things done. This structure the GM answers to a hockey mind which makes life so much better.

Burke firing Feaster doesn't mean Shanahan will fire Nonis.... What did Burke do he hired another GM one that he sees as a better fit what's wrong with that? Don't you think Burke a hockey mind better suited to make that decision or if that came from Calgary's suits?

 

[ULF_55]

McLean is a tool and frankly is jealous that organizations in hockey are creating management roles to eliminate themselves from the decision making for the team. In his day as is the case still with many teams the GM answered to a suit to get things done. This structure the GM answers to a hockey mind which makes life so much better.

Burke firing Feaster doesn't mean Shanahan will fire Nonis.... What did Burke do he hired another GM one that he sees as a better fit what's wrong with that? Don't you think Burke a hockey mind better suited to make that decision or if that came from Calgary's suits?

I think it just means the same for Shanahan as for Burke.

He'll fire Nonis when he's comfortable doing so.

It is a matter of time.

What is the accolades for Nonis?

Won anything, anywhere at any level?

By-the-way, McLean said he had no interest in being a GM again and acknowledged no one is about to recruit him. Why would he, he's got a job that allows him to be home when he wants and no headaches besides Kypreos to deal with.

 

[Defense]

About 3 weeks ago Doug McLean was talking about these "non-GM" Presidents.

He said, they are in reality the GM's, just without the baggage.

Look at Burke in Calgary, said he was going there, but Feaster (the GM who landed all their prospects including Monahan) was not going to be fired.

Yep, sure, Burke fired him and replaced him with no one for half a year.

What?

A team needs a GM!!!!



McLean said he would have loved not being the GM while he was GM.

McLean's right

 

[HellasLEAF]

I personally have no problem with this situation and feel like it's working very well.

The two are clearly working in tandem and appear to have a good working relationship.

Anyway you slice it, bringing Shanny in will be positive for the club.

 

[DeathToAllButMetal]

The threads here just get stupider and stupider. What exactly has been done that can be linked to Shanahan? Nylander? Yeah, because this team has never drafted a skilled Swede before? Nothing done this summer with signings or trades can be said to be "Shanahan moves" because nobody can say what a "Shanahan move" looks like because he's NEVER BEEN A GM BEFORE.

Also, I'd say that this summer looks more like Nonis shoring up the core that he built with tweaks. Which is exactly like he would be doing if he were, you know, the GM who built this club and is defending his past moves by doubling down with these minor additions. Now if the club was being ripped apart, big trades were being made to dump Phaneuf, Lupul, Kadri, and maybe even Kessel, then I would agree that Shanahan is in charge and taking the team in a whole new direction.

But this? This is a "stay the course" summer where Nonis is bolstering the core that he built and still believes in. What else can he do? He just locked up Phaneuf and Kessel last year to massive deals. He'd kill his credibility forever in the league if he made big changes just months later. Better off betting on the core he built, making the minor moves that were made this summer, and going down in flames if need be. He goes the other way and he likely still goes down in flames during a rebuild, and he also comes off wishy-washy.

 

[ULF_55]

The threads here just get stupider and stupider. What exactly has been done that can be linked to Shanahan? Nylander? Yeah, because this team has never drafted a skilled Swede before? Nothing done this summer with signings or trades can be said to be "Shanahan moves" because nobody can say what a "Shanahan move" looks like because he's NEVER BEEN A GM BEFORE.

Also, I'd say that this summer looks more like Nonis shoring up the core that he built with tweaks. Which is exactly like he would be doing if he were, you know, the GM who built this club and is defending his past moves by doubling down with these minor additions. Now if the club was being ripped apart, big trades were being made to dump Phaneuf, Lupul, Kadri, and maybe even Kessel, then I would agree that Shanahan is in charge and taking the team in a whole new direction.

But this? This is a "stay the course" summer where Nonis is bolstering the core that he built and still believes in. What else can he do? He just locked up Phaneuf and Kessel last year to massive deals. He'd kill his credibility forever in the league if he made big changes just months later. Better off betting on the core he built, making the minor moves that were made this summer, and going down in flames if need be. He goes the other way and he likely still goes down in flames during a rebuild, and he also comes off wishy-washy.

That is a valid argument.

If his moves continue to be as catastrophic as the buy-out of Grabovski to use the money on Clarkson, the refusal to negotiate with Komarov only to acquiesce a year later ... he's unlikely to get another shot at the top spot in any franchise.

He's been a failure in Toronto, and this is likely his last shot at the prize.

 

[BraveCanadian]

I just wish Pat Quinn was still the GM/Coach like back when we had Dryden.

Pat Quinn > Dave Nonis
Pat Quinn > Randy Carlyle

Yea I miss Pat Quinn as well. Great hockey mind. Too bad we have goofballs in those positions now. Hopefully both are canned after the Leafs miss the playoffs.

I really liked Quinn when he was here but he did a better job as coach than as GM.

He really left the cupboard bare trying to make it deep in the playoffs and didn't get over the hump. Then they hired JFJ and told him to try the same thing.

The best thing that could happen to this club is to stop pretending it is going to go anywhere and rebuild around some bluechips and a style of play that they get trained towards.

Pat Quinn assembled the best Leaf teams since league expansion.

IMO, Cliff Fletcher did.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

Is it a hard concept for people to understand that Nonis is thr Gm, but has many experienced and intelligent people to consut with

... and yet we still have David Clarkson.

 

[TankNationTillDeath]

Unless Dave Nonis is showing some miraculous ability to accept he was wrong on numerous occasions, then this summer's activity was mostly Shanny... Case and point, Gunnar.

And, we can all speculate what this team would look like right now without Shanny.

Bolland would be here for starters.

 

[dimi78]

I think it just means the same for Shanahan as for Burke.

He'll fire Nonis when he's comfortable doing so.

It is a matter of time.

What is the accolades for Nonis?

Won anything, anywhere at any level?

By-the-way, McLean said he had no interest in being a GM again and acknowledged no one is about to recruit him. Why would he, he's got a job that allows him to be home when he wants and no headaches besides Kypreos to deal with.

And IF he fires Nonis you don't think he's going to hire another GM?

Oh yeah right he has no interest that's why he turn coated and jumped at first notice to join Jim Balsillie's plan out in Phoenix that caused a issues with Bob McCowan who wanted no part of him being on his show for many years. Funny as heck Bob McCowan every time somebody on his show tried to reference Doug McLean he would shoot it down right on the spot that McLean is a turn coat idiot.LOL

It's not that he has no interest it's that nobody is stupid enough to hire him.

FYI he works longer hours now than he did as GM in Columbus where he delegated duties... He still to this day blames Nikolay Zherdev for his failing in Columbus that's the type of tool he is. He fits the fakes of TV annalist perfectly.

 

[Porn*]

Shanahan has no experience as an NHL GM when it comes to contracts, the CBA or all the responsibilities that go along with it.

Nonis now however is no different than he was under Burke as he doesn't have the final say and acts more like the assistant GM for all intents and purposes.

I'm more comfortable with this scenario to be honest. Nonis is a GREAT assistant.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Sullivan, McCauley, Stajan, Antropov, Ponikarovsky, Hoglund, Kaberle, Markov, Berard.

We played kids, it was too bad our drafting was ****.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Close but a little too far. Shanahan represents the bridge between ownership and the hockey club. Shanahan is the boss of the hockey operation wing of MLSE. What this structure has done is that ownership ie the board Tim Leiweke have entrusted the Maple Leafs on Shanahan, with his role he speaks for the owners now what he says go's. When once Nonis, Burke , JFJ, Quinn had to get the OK from the board to do things.

Shanahan isn't here to be the GM. He's here as an apprentice to Tim Leiweke as he learns the business side of the corporation and who Tim Leiweke is leaving all decisions for the hockey wing go through Shanahan as the final say.

Nonis is the GM. His role hasn't changed it's just that his boss now actually knows a thing or two about hockey and not some suit.

That is exactly how it is. Shanny will not become a GM but grow in his role as president. Being a GM only get him closer to the action but with less power. Nonis seem fine being the guy taking the calls, negotiate etc and just like with under Burke he is a good 2nd man. They can not all be generals.