Is Mike Babcock's Lame Duck Status Hurting the Wings?

[Mount Suribachi]

We are all disappointed with Holland and the buck stops with him.

But is it fair to ask at this point is Mike Babcock's lack of a contract, swirling rumors in terms of his coaching future hurting this team?

I mean surely the big crowd of major Babcock supporters would argue his being the bench boss should be a big selling point right?

He was willing to fly around and meet people in the past, not much heard on that front recently.

We have gone on about the lengths of what appears to be a growing disconnect between him and his boss who is persona non grata for his stunning decision to panic and bring Quincey back and then loyally sign Cleary.

But we had options up the list first if we are to believe some of what has been floated out there and we offered them things that should have been desirable. Did Babcock's contract status hurt us in your opinion and how worried should we be if this is an opinion of NHL players because that would be some additional smoke to the idea he is leaving soon.

I think its the other way round. The scraps that Holland keeps providing Babcock with will make Babcock leave. The thought of Babcock coaching the Pens and teaching/forcing Crosby and Malkin to play defence terrifies me.

Babcock has repeatedly talked about the need for more toughness, so Holland provides him with borderline NHLers like May and Tootoo and friggin Norton. He's preached the need for RHDs and Holland provides him with...no-one. He's complained about the lack of high-end talent on the roster and Holland provides him with....no-one.

I've thought for several years (even whilst I was still a Holland defender) that coach and GM are on different pages. I will be amazed if Babcock signs an extension with Detroit. If I'm him I wait till after the playoffs and have my choice of which talented but underachieving team to go to.

 

[Goalie guy]

I don't think so! I think it has more to due with our GM. Not the city, not the coach.

 

[Fugu]

Holland and the Red Wings have excelled at stocking a system full of undersized, high iq, skill players. Babcock has consistantly run undersized, high iq, skill players out of town in favor of gritty, system players. The resulting losses in asset management have been crippling.

I think a lot of frustrations about how the organization has been run would be alleviated if Babcocks contract was allowed to run out.

He's a great coach in many situations, but he's been here too long and the team has been declining too consistantly to claim things are working out. A broader thinking coaching could do wonders with the development system we have. I think it's imperitive someone gets that chance while 40,13 and 55 are still kicking.

I could care less about Suter, Ehrhoff, etc. But Cleary, Quincy, Lashoff, glendenning, etc. makes Detroit's system unattractive not only for Ufa's but for Hudler, filpulla, tatar etc.

I think this is fairly accurate. While Bowman was still around, the organization was able to meld the two diverging philosophies into something rather productive. The pendulum simply has swung too far in the other direction, and one that's counter to the GM's beliefs when drafting, developing and valuating.

 

[Fugu]

I think its the other way round. The scraps that Holland keeps providing Babcock with will make Babcock leave. The thought of Babcock coaching the Pens and teaching/forcing Crosby and Malkin to play defence terrifies me.

Babcock has repeatedly talked about the need for more toughness, so Holland provides him with borderline NHLers like May and Tootoo and friggin Norton. He's preached the need for RHDs and Holland provides him with...no-one. He's complained about the lack of high-end talent on the roster and Holland provides him with....no-one.

I've thought for several years (even whilst I was still a Holland defender) that coach and GM are on different pages. I will be amazed if Babcock signs an extension with Detroit. If I'm him I wait till after the playoffs and have my choice of which talented but underachieving team to go to.

I don't fear it because I don't think Babs will be able to control that team. Egos are just too massive, so what possible leverage can he have?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Also worth pointing out in this dream scenario Crosby has been fairly underwhelming at both Olympics. His best player at both of them in terms of forwards was Toews and that wasn't really all that close in terms of a debate.

I know people are fearing the Penguins angle, but I do find it interesting that this angle is often overlooked. Yes Doughty, Toews and Price can throttle teams in the Olympics when Crosby is off no surprise there, but Sidney hasn't been much better than Ovie or Malkin in terms of actual play and that is lost a lot because he picked the right time to score the biggest goal of his life. When he does it with the Pens they go home that is a part of the problem with his club that doesn't exist with his international team.

 

[SoupNazi]

I don't fear it because I don't think Babs will be able to control that team. Egos are just too massive, so what possible leverage can he have?

Good point. I think Babcock with all the egos over there is setting himself up for a ton of failure.

Also worth pointing out in this dream scenario Crosby has been fairly underwhelming at both Olympics. His best player at both of them in terms of forwards was Toews and that wasn't really all that close in terms of a debate.

I know people are fearing the Penguins angle, but I do find it interesting that this angle is often overlooked. Yes Doughty, Toews and Price can throttle teams in the Olympics when Crosby is off no surprise there, but Sidney hasn't been much better than Ovie or Malkin in terms of actual play and that is lost a lot because he picked the right time to score the biggest goal of his life. When he does it with the Pens they go home that is a part of the problem with his club that doesn't exist with his international team.

True as well. I have had my doubts, frankly, as to whether Crosby likes playing for Babs, and even if he does if Babcock's coaching style doesn't utilize Crosby to his strengths. Frankly, based on the Olympics I don't think it does; I would be interested to see if that was the case over 82 games as well.

 

[Flowah]

I think its the other way round. The scraps that Holland keeps providing Babcock with will make Babcock leave. The thought of Babcock coaching the Pens and teaching/forcing Crosby and Malkin to play defence terrifies me.

Babcock has repeatedly talked about the need for more toughness, so Holland provides him with borderline NHLers like May and Tootoo and friggin Norton. He's preached the need for RHDs and Holland provides him with...no-one. He's complained about the lack of high-end talent on the roster and Holland provides him with....no-one.

I've thought for several years (even whilst I was still a Holland defender) that coach and GM are on different pages. I will be amazed if Babcock signs an extension with Detroit. If I'm him I wait till after the playoffs and have my choice of which talented but underachieving team to go to.

Let's be real here. Holland agrees with those needs. He just can't get them. When he can get Babcock what he wants, we get Cleary.

They aren't on different pages. Holland and Babcock agreed on what they needed. Holland just can't deliver. Again, other than Cleary.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

I don't fear it because I don't think Babs will be able to control that team. Egos are just too massive, so what possible leverage can he have?

I dunno, Crosby seemed to buy into it in the olympics. Plus, multiple years of playoff exits tends to make you more open to change. Remember how unhappy Yzerman was when Bowman told him he would have to sacrifice points for defence if he wanted to win? But he did it, because he was sick of losing in the playoffs, and wanted to win.

 

[InjuredChoker]

malkin slacked one defensive side of the puck under maurice during the lockout. maurice then benched him. malkin didn't mail it in after that.

crosby is no problem. he'll buy in and he'll do it well. just like at olympics.

if/as you can get those two to play the way babs wants, you can get the rest.

 

[benusmc]

I hope this ******* leaves next year

 

[Shoalzie]

Reminds me a bit of the Jim Leyland situation...what does the coach/manager owe to his team when his contract could run out and do they have any obligation to staying?

I'd put the odds at him staying at 40-60. He'll be as much of a pro as he can be this year but he can't look at his job responsibilities with this team past next year.

I'm sure he'd like to win this year so I could see this year as him looking for a chance to win a title and he doesn't owe anything to the young players in this organization. Hence, a move like re-signing Cleary.

 

[Johnz96*]

Babcock and Holland are idiots. Having people as stupid as them running things is hurting the Wings

 

[evolutionbaby]

Anyone remember when Babs got pissed after Holland missed out on Brent Burns at the draft a couple years ago? He does believe we need more talent and wants to have RH-LH pairings but Holland keeps nickel and diming him with the same old crap. Holland claims RH dmen don't grow on trees - well neither do RH 1C's and Nill acquired 2 of those in 2 offseasons...

Can you elaborate on this please, I dont remember hearing about this. Thanks!

 

[InjuredChoker]

Can you elaborate on this please, I dont remember hearing about this. Thanks!

the LH-RH thing or burns thing?

 

[Kronwalled55]

Babcock and Bylsma really don't seem that different IMO. As far as both fan bases' gripes against them, they are/were pretty similar. Over obsession on plugs/grinders, sitting the wrong players, stubborness, leaving star players to fend for themselves with mediocre wingers, etc.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Babcock and Bylsma really don't seem that different IMO. As far as both fan bases' gripes against them, they are/were pretty similar. Over obsession on plugs/grinders, sitting the wrong players, stubborness, leaving star players to fend for themselves with mediocre wingers, etc.

babcock is more hard ass and has shown more ability to adjust. but there are lot of similarities (like with most coaches).

 

[InjuredChoker]

Ken Wiebe @WiebeSunSports · 5 min
Hearing that Tony Granato could be joining #RedWings as an assistant coach under Mike Babcock

 

[SoupGuru]

Ken Wiebe @WiebeSunSports · 5 min
Hearing that Tony Granato could be joining #RedWings as an assistant coach under Mike Babcock

I've always like Granato. I have no idea why....

Can he run a power play?

 

[InjuredChoker]

I've always like Granato. I have no idea why....

Can he run a power play?

that might be the only thing he did well during his time with avs but it might have been on his assistants doing.

was in charge of PK and F's for pens.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Anyone remember when Babs got pissed after Holland missed out on Brent Burns at the draft a couple years ago? He does believe we need more talent and wants to have RH-LH pairings but Holland keeps nickel and diming him with the same old crap. Holland claims RH dmen don't grow on trees - well neither do RH 1C's and Nill acquired 2 of those in 2 offseasons...

Babcock was upset because Holland was asleep at the wheel while the Wild were shopping Burns. I just said in another thread I'd be very interested in seeing what the Red Wings roster would look like this season if Nill was our GM. I like what he's done thus far in Dallas and he's the guy behind our lone executive strength going forward: drafting.

 

[GBFP]

I like that Nill isn't afraid to deal young players to get Seguin and now Spezza.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Helene St. James ‏@HeleneStJames nyt
Coach Mike Babcock on state of his contract extension talks: "We'll either get it done by fall or wait till the season is over." #RedWings

 

[Vladdy84]

Helene St. James ‏@HeleneStJames nyt
Coach Mike Babcock on state of his contract extension talks: "We'll either get it done by fall or wait till the season is over." #RedWings

Hope he hits the road and takes Daniel with him.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

I like that Nill isn't afraid to deal young players to get Seguin and now Spezza.

Yeah same here, That's why Nill will go down as one of the greatest GMs in the league.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Helene St. James ‏@HeleneStJames nyt
Coach Mike Babcock on state of his contract extension talks: "We'll either get it done by fall or wait till the season is over." #RedWings

I will be surprised if he stays.