Is McDavid, Matthews, MacKinnon the new Big Three?

[Mrb1p]

148 points in 154 games (0.96 PPG)
182 points in 216 games (0.84 PPG)


Which one do you think is the better scorer? Auston Matthews is also better defensively so you’re gonna have to do better job convincing me that Eichel and Matthews are in the same tier.

Eichel plays on the PK, Matthews does not

Also, that would account for their first year difference in production, yes.

Also, strength of team.

Umm, being the nhl scoring leader is definitely what I call changing it.

After 7 games, nice.

Also, he's not even the leading scorer, he's tied with Malkin and behind McDavid, thanks.

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

Not sure why people think Matthews is great defensively when he has 11 ES points and is a +- 0

The fact that you think +/- is any sort of indicator of defensive play says a lot about your hockey knowledge. It's 2018, our methods of judging defensive play have come such a long way. +/- has no adjustments for usage, PDO, QoC, QoT.

 

[Jeti]

Why Scheifele and not Seguin?

He's younger and better.

 

[talitintti]

The fact that you think +/- is any sort of indicator of defensive play says a lot about your hockey knowledge. It's 2018, our methods of judging defensive play have come such a long way. +/- has no adjustments for usage, PDO, QoC, QoT.

How do you think Matthews' advanced defensive metrics look like this year?

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Ok, then you would know how good he is at stripping the puck, being in good position in his own zone and boxing out key players. He doesn’t play PK minutes but that doesn’t mean he isn’t good defensively. But, Eichel isn’t better which is why I said Matthews is better offensively and defensively.

Who said eichel was better? I still think HE CAN BE and really I would suggest you watch him on a regular basis before laughing that idea off because again I’ve seen every Matthews game this year except the last one against the pens. But me thinking that is beside the point.

People are talking tiers. Tiers can range from here to over here. It’s not a huge gap that’s why it’s a tier but there can be leverage for a guy over another guy even if they’re in the same tier that’s why Matthews can be ahead of him right own but in the same group. (Tier)—- Plus the point totals in the last two seasons and even this year, between Matthews and Eichel are only separated by around ten points. Eichel gets more PP time but playing with plugs who can’t score goals isn’t exactly noteworthy. Playing with a team that was 26 slots better and scored 72 more goals is.


Anyway you really shouldn’t take it as an insult.

 

[AvsFan29]

The fact that you think +/- is any sort of indicator of defensive play says a lot about your hockey knowledge. It's 2018, our methods of judging defensive play have come such a long way. +/- has no adjustments for usage, PDO, QoC, QoT.

I understand it's a flawed stat, but it still has some merit. Players who put up lots of points and are good defensively aren't minus players. Matthews is the only player in the top 10 who isn't a plus player. I understand Toronto has terrible defence, and that probably has more to do with it.

 

[Semantics]

Eichel plays on the PK, Matthews does not

HAHAHAHAHAHA, Eichel plays a whopping 0:47 per game on the PK, which puts him at #116 among centers, you're going to use THAT to assert that he's a good defensive player?

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

I call it McDavid then everyone else.

 

[Semantics]

Not sure why people think Matthews is great defensively when he has 11 ES points and is a +- 0

Do you want to look at his +/- from a larger sample or nah?

 

[authentic]

This, Matthews is becoming great defensively I first noticed it last year and while the commentary can be contrived at times where they look for it a little much, whether it’s to marvel or just appease the fanbase I don’t know? (Because some of the replays are of the simplest variety) he is becoming a top ten center jn defense.

This year he’s even better that way.

No he's not to be honest, but with how much he's scored he hasn't needed to be. Infact he's been noticeably worse defensively this year then when he looked at his best last year.

 

[AvsFan29]

Do you want to look at his +/- from a larger sample or nah?

Well considering he's leading the league in points, and playing on a top team in the league, and still isn't a plus player, I think that's a good enough sample.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

HAHAHAHAHAHA, Eichel plays a whopping 0:47 per game on the PK, which puts him at #116 among centers, you're going to use THAT to assert that he's a good defensive player?

In all seriousness, and I wouldn’t use a PK argument but his defensive play (Eichels) has never been better then this season even if the defense has sucked outside dahlin.

But Matthews is a top ten center in defense as I said (becoming one) so it’s not even close in that department.

 

[LeafFever]

+/- is a terible stat. Matthews owns Eichel in all advanced stats.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

No he's not to be honest, but with how much he's scored he hasn't needed to be. Infact he's been noticeably worse defensively this year then when he looked at his best last year.

Well of course when you compare Matthews best defensive plays in 63 games compared to seven where the leafs have been playing freewheel hockey it’s not going to jump out. But Matthews has made some tremendous plays defensively this year. He just seems to have taken his game to another level this year in all ways.

 

[hockeeyyy]

You're take on scheifele is garbage

He's "maybe" a top 15 centre. No he's absolutely a top 10 centre

Scheifele has score more than Matthews in the last 2 seasons
And did waýyyyyyy better than matthews did in the playoffs who could score only 2 points
While scheifele lead his team to the western conference finals
14 goals in 17 games

20 points>>>>>2 points AINEC
If I would rather have had scheifele in the playoffs last year, that doesn't change a few games into this season

Oh yea? Weird how a 17 game sample size is fine, but a 7 game sample size isn't. But sure, the 7 game sample size is fine when it's convenient to your argument against Matthews.

Scheifele is a good centre. He's not Matthews. He's not McDavid. He's not MacKinnon either. He couldn't carry any of their jockstraps.

 

[authentic]

Well of course when you compare Matthews best defensive plays in 63 games compared to seven where the leafs have been playing freewheel hockey it’s not going to jump out. But Matthews has made some tremendous plays defensively this year. He just seems to have taken his game to another level this year in all ways.

There's no doubt he's better now, but the offense and defense will balance out a lot more as the season goes on. His line has been hemmed in their own zone a lot so far this season but a lot of that is not having Nylander I think, his linemates have not been great so far other than Kapanen for a few games. His defensive skills have not deteriorated though.

 

[Saltcreek]

Oh yea? Weird how a 17 game sample size is fine, but a 7 game sample size isn't. But sure, the 7 game sample size is fine when it's convenient to your argument against Matthews.

Scheifele is a good centre. He's not Matthews. He's not McDavid. He's not MacKinnon either. He couldn't carry any of their jockstraps.

Do you know what a sample size is and how that is relevant when doing comparisons, polls, gathering data? This statement infers that you do not understand why sample size is important.

 

[Mrb1p]

In all seriousness, and I wouldn’t use a PK argument but his defensive play (Eichels) has never been better then this season even if the defense has sucked outside dahlin.

But Matthews is a top ten center in defense as I said (becoming one) so it’s not even close in that department.

Barkov
Bergeron
Kopitar
Toews
Crosby
Couturier
Kesler
Thornton
Backstrom
Staal
Koivu
Getzlaf
ROR
Monahan
Staal

Etc.

Anyway, the real elite is the first 6, and he's so far off that.

 

[hockeeyyy]

Do you know what a sample size is and how that is relevant when doing comparisons, polls, gathering data? This statement infers that you do not understand why sample size is important.

I sure do. That's why I offered a full season sample size knowing that someone like you would try and use a smaller sample size to try and inconvenience a better argument.

 

[nabob]

Think about what you just said there. Matthews had 4 goals in his first series in 6 games against Washington, and it's a known fact he was injured going into last years playoffs. Despite this he has the same playoff points per game as McDavid. He's not on McDavid's level but I confidently say when healthy he's as good or better than anyone else right now besides maybe Crosby and Malkin and better than everyone else in the forseeable future, though MacKinnon is looking to be right there with him.

I know what I said there. He was simply good against Washington or Boston in the playoffs, he didn’t elevate his game, infact his overall game was much worse than normal. It’s as simple as that.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I think to fully establish themselves as a "Big Three", they need to prove it with trophies/year end accolades first. They'd need to separate themselves from the rest of the "young guns" by virtue of their individual trophy case/stats.

The only one who has done that so far is McDavid.

 

[hockeeyyy]

I know what I said there. He was simply good against Washington or Boston in the playoffs, he didn’t elevate his game, infact his overall game was much worse than normal. It’s as simple as that.

He was absolutely dominant against Washington lmao

Matthews legend grows in Stanley Cup playoff spotlight: Arthur | The Star

The Capitals had no answer for his line. They were completely flummoxed. What killed the Leafs is the Capitals insane depth.

 

[Taluss]

I’d say more like:
McDavid
Good size gap
Matthews
Small gap
Mackinnon

 

[Taluss]

Matthews is not McDavid level , he has long ways to go. Can’t believe some ppl think he is.

Edit: That being said I’m not saying he will never be close to him and have battles over some years. I’m just saying it’s ridiculous how some peeps take his first 7 games and that suddenly means he’s better then McDavid and all the years McDavid has been wreaking him means nothing

 

[Yasuo]

More like a big 1 ( Mcdavid)