Is Marner much less w/o Matthews? Is Matthews much less w/o Marner?

[al secord]

I hate these polls. Only serves one purpose.

 

[seanlinden]

For Matthews to be a 50+ goal scorer, he needs Marner. All elite goalscorers need an elite playmaker on their line to reach those kinds of numbers. Without Marner, and instead with a "normal" 1st line winger, Matthews is probably a low 40s goalscorer, and likely an 80-85 point player.

On the flip side, Marner without Matthews put up 94 points with JT. I see no reason why he wouldn't continue to be a ~90 point player with JT again.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Every player who plays with Marner as their wing ends up having a career year.

Both equally important but you cant sleep on that fact of life.

From Tavares 47 goals to Matthews this season, they all have Marner in common.

I agree with this. Everyone is obviously all caught up in the "Matthews Show" right now, and they should be, as he's been amazing.

But overlooked in it all, is the sheer impact that Marner has on games and on everyone he plays with. Mitch is like having another #1 pick on the team. He's just as "elite" as Matthews is, and some(like me) would argue that he's really the straw that stirs the drink.

We are SO lucky right now.

 

[Holymakinaw]

I hate these polls. Only serves one purpose.

You can easily just ignore it, no?

 

[sxvnert]

Marner could be paired with Tavares and wouldn't skip a beat. Matthews could be paired with Nylander again and might score a bit less but not by much.

 

[mydnyte]

Who is more important to the other?

Matthews started his career playing mostly with Hyman and Nylander, and did very well, scoring 40 goals in his rookie season, followed by 34 and then 37 goal seasons. But he REALLY took off once he was paired with Marner two years ago, and responded with 47 goals(paced for 55, I think?) and this season's 38 & counting(pacing for 65!!!). Surely Marner has had a lot to do wth that, setting him up so beautifully, so often.

And conversely, Marner started with Tavares and Kapanen(or Johnsson) and did very well for the first few years(61 pts, 69 pts) and then had a breakout year of 94 points largely without Matthews. Then he's continued at that torrid pace the last two years with Matthews, getting 67 last year(paced for 93) and 64 so far this year(pacing for 103!!!). Is it largely because of Matthews, though? He also did it w/o Matthews 3 years ago.

The two of them are one of the best pairings in the NHL, no doubt.

Just vote and answer the damn poll, would ya?

none of the above...
Mitch gets spoiled as he can play in Matthews or Tavares's wing
Matthews has proven he can be just as effective with Nylander on his wing

so, if you think Marner > Nylander then that tells you all you need to know about Matthews needing Marner or not.
Many 'star' players dont actually break out until season #5 - 6 so, they are ahead of the curve anyways.

 

[Notsince67]

I agree with this. Everyone is obviously all caught up in the "Matthews Show" right now, and they should be, as he's been amazing.

But overlooked in it all, is the sheer impact that Marner has on games and on everyone he plays with. Mitch is like having another #1 pick on the team. He's just as "elite" as Matthews is, and some(like me) would argue that he's really the straw that stirs the drink.

We are SO lucky right now.

It isn't overlooked by everyone including Matthews.
They are having fun together and are playing great.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Both are special players. Matthews is just a bit moreso. Marner needs a good shooter just as much as they need him.

 

[Confucius]

Both are great, but Marner needs a guy like Matthews to put the puck in the net. How many of his assists are as a result of Matthews making a play/shot that very few other guys could make?

Again, no hate, Marner is incredible and we’re lucky to have him. But Matthews has a huge impact on his numbers.

JT scored 47 playing with Marner his best season goal scoring ever by 10 goals. Marner is perhaps the greatest passer in the league and that's including McDavid.

 

[kevsh]

Matthews is easily a 45+ goal scorer even without Marner, and Marner is a 90+ point player even without Matthews.

These are two elite talents who together elevate their game to the point Matthews is a lock for the Richard and Marner could finish as high as 3rd in league scoring/ 100 points pro-rated over a full season.

 

[AvroArrow]

Elite playmaker and an Elite goal scorer. Both benefit from playing with each other. Marner was dominating with JVR/Bozak and Tavares now Matthews. Matthews has been scoring goals regardless of who his wingers are.

 

[Buds17]

Matthews is arguably the team's top centre. Marner is arguably the team's top winger. I think the same holds true whether or not they are linemates. Totally fine with cloning Hyman should that need arise though!

 

[keonsbitterness]

Where is the 'fire this thread into the Sun' option?

 

[Holymakinaw]

Matthews is easily a 45+ goal scorer even without Marner, and Marner is a 90+ point player even without Matthews.

These are two elite talents who together elevate their game to the point Matthews is a lock for the Richard and Marner could finish as high as 3rd in league scoring/ 100 points pro-rated over a full season.

Hmmm.

Other than maybe McDavid, who out there can pass and set up like Marner can? I say no one. So with a "lesser" passer to play with, I really don't know if Matthews would be good for 45+ goals a year.

 

[WillyC]

I see Marner having the highest Hockey IQ since Gretzky... yes, higher than Mario, Sid and McD.

Matthews is another animal though and is likely going to defend the Rocket every year for the next 8+ years.

It's very possible, we are watching the two greatest Maple Leafs of all time... 2 Mega Superstars who are not likely going to be separated over the next decade.

We may never know who is better without the other... I would bet, they even get bronzed onto Legends Row together.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Hmmm.

Other than maybe McDavid, who out there can pass and set up like Marner can? I say no one. So with a "lesser" passer to play with, I really don't know if Matthews would be good for 45+ goals a year.

My guy, Matthews scored 40 as a rookie with much more raw line mates in Nylander and Hyman and was underutilized by Babcock. Of course he’d hit 45 without Mitch.

 

[AcerComputer]

Without Marner he can score 40-50 goals, with Marner he can score 60+.

I think the fact that Marner gave Tavares his best Goal scoring season ever says a lot, with a bump of at least 10 goals.

 

[kevsh]

My guy, Matthews scored 40 as a rookie with much more raw line mates in Nylander and Hyman and was underutilized by Babcock. Of course he’d hit 45 without Mitch.

Keep in mind, not only is Marner now a fixture on Matthew's side but Auston's ice time over the past two seasons has jumped from ~18 minutes a game to over 20 (and over 21 this season).

In his first 3 seasons he scored at a pace of 42 goals/82 games. Considering he's simply getting better + more ice time, I think I was being conservative at "45+".

 

[justashadowof]

Didn't Matthews score 37 goals, 73 points in 68 games with Johnsson and Kapanen as his primary wingers? Then again Tavares scored a career high 47 goals with Marner as his winger the same season. I guess that's why it isn't an easy question.

 

[pcruz]

The obvious answer is that it's been Hyman all along.

Neither Matthews nor Marner are any good without Hyman being the psychological factor.
If he ever leaves, the M&M duo will crash and burn!

 

[Spirit of 67]

They should swap Marner and Nylander and see what happens.

 

[The Apologist]

I can't believe Hyman isn't winning..... Underrated as usual.

 

[MapleLeafs77]

I honestly think matthews playing with nylander wouldnt change much for matthews. He hasnt played with nylander since his first two years. He played with johnsson, brown, marleau, kapanen, hyman. He still put up 40+ goals while being injured every season.

I think keefe should experiment here and have matthews with nylander and marner with tavares.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Equally as important(for those who requested this option)

i.e., the majority of people

 

[MattySnipes]

Hyman and Matthews are great together.
Marner and Matthews are great together.
Nylander and Matthews are great together.
Marner and JT are great together.
JT and Matthews are great together.
Nylander and JT are great together.
Spezza and Jumbo are great together.
Hyman and Foligno will be great together.

We got a lot of great duos, boys. Excellent team. Forget that individual crap.