Is Marner much less w/o Matthews? Is Matthews much less w/o Marner?

Discussion in 'Toronto Maple Leafs' started by Holymakinaw, May 3, 2021 at 8:43 AM.

?

Who is MORE important than whom?

  1. Matthews needs Mitch to be a truly elite goal scorer.

    5.6%
  2. Marner just ain't that special w/o Matthews.

    16.9%
  3. It's been Hyman, all along.

    8.9%
  4. Equally as important(for those who requested this option)

    68.5%
  1. al secord Mustard Tiger

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    I hate these polls. Only serves one purpose.
     
  2. seanlinden Registered User

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    For Matthews to be a 50+ goal scorer, he needs Marner. All elite goalscorers need an elite playmaker on their line to reach those kinds of numbers. Without Marner, and instead with a "normal" 1st line winger, Matthews is probably a low 40s goalscorer, and likely an 80-85 point player.

    On the flip side, Marner without Matthews put up 94 points with JT. I see no reason why he wouldn't continue to be a ~90 point player with JT again.
     
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  3. Holymakinaw Registered User

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    I agree with this. Everyone is obviously all caught up in the "Matthews Show" right now, and they should be, as he's been amazing.

    But overlooked in it all, is the sheer impact that Marner has on games and on everyone he plays with. Mitch is like having another #1 pick on the team. He's just as "elite" as Matthews is, and some(like me) would argue that he's really the straw that stirs the drink.

    We are SO lucky right now.
     
  4. Holymakinaw Registered User

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    You can easily just ignore it, no? :)
     
  5. sxvnert Registered User

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    Marner could be paired with Tavares and wouldn't skip a beat. Matthews could be paired with Nylander again and might score a bit less but not by much.
     
  6. mydnyte Registered User

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    none of the above...
    Mitch gets spoiled as he can play in Matthews or Tavares's wing
    Matthews has proven he can be just as effective with Nylander on his wing

    so, if you think Marner > Nylander then that tells you all you need to know about Matthews needing Marner or not.
    Many 'star' players dont actually break out until season #5 - 6 so, they are ahead of the curve anyways.
     
  7. Notsince67 Papi and the Lamplighters

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    It isn't overlooked by everyone including Matthews.
    They are having fun together and are playing great.
     
  8. Maplebeasts I See Demons!!!!!

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    Both are special players. Matthews is just a bit moreso. Marner needs a good shooter just as much as they need him.
     
  9. Confucius We Can and We Will

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    JT scored 47 playing with Marner his best season goal scoring ever by 10 goals. Marner is perhaps the greatest passer in the league and that's including McDavid.
     
  10. kevsh Registered User

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    Matthews is easily a 45+ goal scorer even without Marner, and Marner is a 90+ point player even without Matthews.

    These are two elite talents who together elevate their game to the point Matthews is a lock for the Richard and Marner could finish as high as 3rd in league scoring/ 100 points pro-rated over a full season.
     
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  11. AvroArrow #MrOverrated

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    Elite playmaker and an Elite goal scorer. Both benefit from playing with each other. Marner was dominating with JVR/Bozak and Tavares now Matthews. Matthews has been scoring goals regardless of who his wingers are.
     
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  12. Buds17 Registered User

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    Matthews is arguably the team's top centre. Marner is arguably the team's top winger. I think the same holds true whether or not they are linemates. Totally fine with cloning Hyman should that need arise though!
     
  13. keonsbitterness Registered User

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    Where is the 'fire this thread into the Sun' option?
     
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  14. Holymakinaw Registered User

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    Hmmm.

    Other than maybe McDavid, who out there can pass and set up like Marner can? I say no one. So with a "lesser" passer to play with, I really don't know if Matthews would be good for 45+ goals a year.
     
  15. WillyC Registered User

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    I see Marner having the highest Hockey IQ since Gretzky... yes, higher than Mario, Sid and McD.

    Matthews is another animal though and is likely going to defend the Rocket every year for the next 8+ years.

    It's very possible, we are watching the two greatest Maple Leafs of all time... 2 Mega Superstars who are not likely going to be separated over the next decade.

    We may never know who is better without the other... I would bet, they even get bronzed onto Legends Row together.
     
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  16. Jimmy Firecracker Reporting from this Tree!

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    My guy, Matthews scored 40 as a rookie with much more raw line mates in Nylander and Hyman and was underutilized by Babcock. Of course he’d hit 45 without Mitch.
     
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  17. AcerComputer Registered User

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    Without Marner he can score 40-50 goals, with Marner he can score 60+.

    I think the fact that Marner gave Tavares his best Goal scoring season ever says a lot, with a bump of at least 10 goals.
     
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  18. kevsh Registered User

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    Keep in mind, not only is Marner now a fixture on Matthew's side but Auston's ice time over the past two seasons has jumped from ~18 minutes a game to over 20 (and over 21 this season).

    In his first 3 seasons he scored at a pace of 42 goals/82 games. Considering he's simply getting better + more ice time, I think I was being conservative at "45+".
     
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  19. justashadowof Registered User

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    Didn't Matthews score 37 goals, 73 points in 68 games with Johnsson and Kapanen as his primary wingers? Then again Tavares scored a career high 47 goals with Marner as his winger the same season. I guess that's why it isn't an easy question.
     
  20. pcruz Registered User

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    The obvious answer is that it's been Hyman all along.

    Neither Matthews nor Marner are any good without Hyman being the psychological factor.
    If he ever leaves, the M&M duo will crash and burn!
     
  21. Spirit of 67 Registered User

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    They should swap Marner and Nylander and see what happens.
     
  22. The Apologist Apologizing for Leaf garbage since 1979

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    I can't believe Hyman isn't winning..... Underrated as usual.
     
  23. MapleLeafs77 Registered User

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    I honestly think matthews playing with nylander wouldnt change much for matthews. He hasnt played with nylander since his first two years. He played with johnsson, brown, marleau, kapanen, hyman. He still put up 40+ goals while being injured every season.

    I think keefe should experiment here and have matthews with nylander and marner with tavares.
     
  24. BoredBrandonPridham Registered User

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    i.e., the majority of people
     
  25. MattySnipes Registered User

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    Hyman and Matthews are great together.
    Marner and Matthews are great together.
    Nylander and Matthews are great together.
    Marner and JT are great together.
    JT and Matthews are great together.
    Nylander and JT are great together.
    Spezza and Jumbo are great together.
    Hyman and Foligno will be great together.

    We got a lot of great duos, boys. Excellent team. Forget that individual crap.
     

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