Is Marner much less w/o Matthews? Is Matthews much less w/o Marner?

Discussion in 'Toronto Maple Leafs' started by Holymakinaw, May 3, 2021 at 8:43 AM.

?

Who is MORE important than whom?

  1. Matthews needs Mitch to be a truly elite goal scorer.

    5.6%
  2. Marner just ain't that special w/o Matthews.

    16.9%
  3. It's been Hyman, all along.

    8.9%
  4. Equally as important(for those who requested this option)

    68.5%
  1. robertmac43 Forever 43!

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2015
    Messages:
    13,650
    Likes Received:
    6,796
    Trophy Points:
    172
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    They were both awesome when they played on their own lines. Having them together is just a cheat code at this point.
     
    Jmo89 likes this.
  2. BertCorbeau Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Messages:
    46,381
    Likes Received:
    15,026
    Trophy Points:
    176
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Simcoe County
    This is the correct answer.

    Marner gets more spotlight because he's a good ol' Ontario boy but with Matthews' scoring as he has, it completely overshadows Marner's contributions this year
     
  3. Steve Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2002
    Messages:
    3,523
    Likes Received:
    220
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Personally I prefer Marner with Tavares. Marner and Matthews compliment each other very well and have proven to be incredible players independently and are more than capable of driving a top line.
     
    Garthinater likes this.
  4. SeaOfBlue The Passion That Unites Us All

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Messages:
    28,892
    Likes Received:
    8,241
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    I mean so has Tavares so...

    Outside of the fact that he was completely snake bitten 5-on-5 in terms of goal scoring, Tavares has easily been one of the best all-around centers in the league this year.
     
    Jimmy Firecracker and stickty111 like this.
  5. Steve Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2002
    Messages:
    3,523
    Likes Received:
    220
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm not sure about "one of the best all-around" but he's been great and I'm happy with what he brings everyday so I have no complaints. I just prefer Marner with Tavares b/c it gives us 2 guys who are capable of scoring 40. Don't get me wrong, Marner & Matthews is so fun to watch, my personal preference is the balance but I'm also sitting at home vs coaching so....
     
  6. mydnyte Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    12,982
    Likes Received:
    415
    Trophy Points:
    199
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    I agree ...and the reasons for me is that Marner's pass first mentality can stifle opportunities because opponents try to eliminate the pass and dont worry too much about Marner's shot, with Nylander, he can shoot as well as he can make a cross zone pass, so, he needs to pull a defender away from Matthews.
    Marner and Tavares are similar, but would face off against the 2nd pairing and #2 line which makes life easier, and Tavares is a slippery son of a gun, even moreso than Matthews and can get his shot off easier vs the lesser defenders.
     
  7. Joey Hoser Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    Messages:
    14,118
    Likes Received:
    3,828
    Trophy Points:
    186
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Location:
    Guelph
    This thread remind me of this classic.

     
  8. Iapyi Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2017
    Messages:
    4,530
    Likes Received:
    1,967
    Trophy Points:
    111
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Location:
    Western Canada
    Went with the obvious answer of :
    Equally as important(for those who requested this option)
     
  9. Albus Dumbledore Master of Death

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2015
    Messages:
    8,667
    Likes Received:
    2,285
    Trophy Points:
    126
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Well this backfired horribly.
     
  10. IPS Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2017
    Messages:
    10,639
    Likes Received:
    14,567
    Trophy Points:
    151
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Matthews was the best ES goal scorer in the league before Marner and him were united.
     
  11. Cap'n Flavour Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,267
    Likes Received:
    645
    Trophy Points:
    184
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Flavour Country
    I don't believe that "Marner just ain't that special w/o Matthews", but they're not equally valuable or important, so I picked the former despite the poor wording.

    Keep in mind for all that Marner sets up Matthews beyond what, say, Nylander would be capable of, he still struggles to finish his own chances. Is Matthews a great or even very good playmaker? It's hard to say when he usually plays with guys who struggle to score from the ranges he does himself with ease.
     
  12. Jmo89 Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2010
    Messages:
    2,761
    Likes Received:
    1,844
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Unfortunately the thumb slipped inputting that cheat code on the botched OT 2 on 0. :sarcasm:
     
  13. justloveleafs Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2021
    Messages:
    309
    Likes Received:
    219
    Trophy Points:
    33
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    investment banker
    Location:
    Paris Ontario
    I really like this board, even though I lost my like button.

    But this thread, just feeds into what Zeke says, we don't seem to appreciate great toys.

    These two guys are sensational. Look at what journeymen, has been basketball makers earn . No wonder Dubas, paid these guys.
     
  14. slozo Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2011
    Messages:
    2,972
    Likes Received:
    363
    Trophy Points:
    94
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Location:
    Newmarket, ON
    I am not going to read through the whole thread, but you must be mentally deficient, to use the more PC term - to have voted "Marner needs Matthews to be great" choice.
    (both are great players btw, regardless of who they play with)

    Marner has already proved otherwise.
    90 point season without Matthews, giving a veteran superstar (Tavares) 47 goals, his highest total ever despite the fact he's on the downslope from his prime that year.

    The best Matthews did without Marner (other than the pp, which they've always been on together) is . . . 40, in his rookie year. He was basically on that same pace next 2 years, then when Babs got fired his next year, switched to Marner. Instant huge uptick.

    All evidence points to the OPPOSITE being true, in fact - that Matthews is only a "good" superstar without Marner, and with Marner, is a Hart candidate and Rocket winner.
    Discuss.
     
    Ulysses31 likes this.
  15. slozo Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2011
    Messages:
    2,972
    Likes Received:
    363
    Trophy Points:
    94
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Location:
    Newmarket, ON
    "struggles" to finish his own chances? Really? (18 goals in 50 games)
    Comparing his ability to make other players better to ... Nylander? (where did Tavares' 47 goal pace go, against a weaker North division?!?)

    Yeesh.
     
  16. justloveleafs Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2021
    Messages:
    309
    Likes Received:
    219
    Trophy Points:
    33
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    investment banker
    Location:
    Paris Ontario
    Dude, I have no like button. But would a Jack Campbell hug suffice, great post.
     
  17. Cap'n Flavour Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,267
    Likes Received:
    645
    Trophy Points:
    184
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Flavour Country
    18 goals in 52 games, 3 of which are ENG. That's a 24-goal pace over 82 games while averaging more TOI than any forward but McDavid. So what part of what I said is wrong? Is he actually a great goal scorer? No, Marner still has a weak shot with a slow release. He has great hands and puck control instead.

    Yes, I compared Marner's playmaking ability to Nylander's and said it was better. No shit. What part of that are you actually disagreeing with? Of course Tavares would probably be putting up more points if he played with Marner full time. Tavares' shooting rates and % have both gone down significantly in the last couple of seasons, but conversely, his assist rates are going up slightly, so go figure.
     
  18. SeaOfBlue The Passion That Unites Us All

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Messages:
    28,892
    Likes Received:
    8,241
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    He has one of the highest faceoff percentages in the league, 13th for centers in terms of assists, 20th in goals (in spite of his snake bitten start of the season), and well-above average defensively this year too. He is no Matthews, MacKinnon, McDavid, etc. but he has quietly and consistently been amazing all year and if he was ES goals like he normally does (and has now been doing for almost a month now), he would be given a ton of praise right now. Same if we had a non-anemic PP that actually uses him for more than a high slot screen.

    He came out with a bang in his first year here because how can you not notice a guy who puts up 47 goals, but he is one of the most consistent guys I have ever seen while also being arguably the least flashy superstar in the league. That can make him go unnoticed.
     
  19. slozo Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2011
    Messages:
    2,972
    Likes Received:
    363
    Trophy Points:
    94
    SB Cash:
    $ 50,000
    Location:
    Newmarket, ON
    Marner has more goals than Tavares and Nylander, facts.
    He's 2nd on the team in goal scoring.

    So I continue to question your statement about him being somehow deficient for goal scoring . . . not his forte obviously; but he's pretty darn good at it still. Better than Tavares and Nylander this year, both considered solid goal scorers.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"