Is Marner much less w/o Matthews? Is Matthews much less w/o Marner?

[robertmac43]

They were both awesome when they played on their own lines. Having them together is just a cheat code at this point.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I think of Marner as a Backstrom and Matthews as Ovechkin.

This is the correct answer.

Marner gets more spotlight because he's a good ol' Ontario boy but with Matthews' scoring as he has, it completely overshadows Marner's contributions this year

 

[Steve]

Personally I prefer Marner with Tavares. Marner and Matthews compliment each other very well and have proven to be incredible players independently and are more than capable of driving a top line.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Personally I prefer Marner with Tavares. Marner and Matthews compliment each other very well and have proven to be incredible players independently and are more than capable of driving a top line.

I mean so has Tavares so...

Outside of the fact that he was completely snake bitten 5-on-5 in terms of goal scoring, Tavares has easily been one of the best all-around centers in the league this year.

 

[Steve]

I mean so has Tavares so...

Outside of the fact that he was completely snake bitten 5-on-5 in terms of goal scoring, Tavares has easily been one of the best all-around centers in the league this year.

I'm not sure about "one of the best all-around" but he's been great and I'm happy with what he brings everyday so I have no complaints. I just prefer Marner with Tavares b/c it gives us 2 guys who are capable of scoring 40. Don't get me wrong, Marner & Matthews is so fun to watch, my personal preference is the balance but I'm also sitting at home vs coaching so....

 

[mydnyte]

Personally I prefer Marner with Tavares. Marner and Matthews compliment each other very well and have proven to be incredible players independently and are more than capable of driving a top line.

I agree ...and the reasons for me is that Marner's pass first mentality can stifle opportunities because opponents try to eliminate the pass and dont worry too much about Marner's shot, with Nylander, he can shoot as well as he can make a cross zone pass, so, he needs to pull a defender away from Matthews.
Marner and Tavares are similar, but would face off against the 2nd pairing and #2 line which makes life easier, and Tavares is a slippery son of a gun, even moreso than Matthews and can get his shot off easier vs the lesser defenders.

 

[Joey Hoser]

This thread remind me of this classic.

 

[Iapyi]

Went with the obvious answer of :
Equally as important(for those who requested this option)

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

Well this backfired horribly.

 

[IPS]

Matthews was the best ES goal scorer in the league before Marner and him were united.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

I don't believe that "Marner just ain't that special w/o Matthews", but they're not equally valuable or important, so I picked the former despite the poor wording.

Keep in mind for all that Marner sets up Matthews beyond what, say, Nylander would be capable of, he still struggles to finish his own chances. Is Matthews a great or even very good playmaker? It's hard to say when he usually plays with guys who struggle to score from the ranges he does himself with ease.

 

[Jmo89]

They were both awesome when they played on their own lines. Having them together is just a cheat code at this point.

Unfortunately the thumb slipped inputting that cheat code on the botched OT 2 on 0.

 

[justloveleafs]

I really like this board, even though I lost my like button.

But this thread, just feeds into what Zeke says, we don't seem to appreciate great toys.

These two guys are sensational. Look at what journeymen, has been basketball makers earn . No wonder Dubas, paid these guys.

 

[slozo]

I am not going to read through the whole thread, but you must be mentally deficient, to use the more PC term - to have voted "Marner needs Matthews to be great" choice.
(both are great players btw, regardless of who they play with)

Marner has already proved otherwise.
90 point season without Matthews, giving a veteran superstar (Tavares) 47 goals, his highest total ever despite the fact he's on the downslope from his prime that year.

The best Matthews did without Marner (other than the pp, which they've always been on together) is . . . 40, in his rookie year. He was basically on that same pace next 2 years, then when Babs got fired his next year, switched to Marner. Instant huge uptick.

All evidence points to the OPPOSITE being true, in fact - that Matthews is only a "good" superstar without Marner, and with Marner, is a Hart candidate and Rocket winner.
Discuss.

 

[slozo]

I don't believe that "Marner just ain't that special w/o Matthews", but they're not equally valuable or important, so I picked the former despite the poor wording.

Keep in mind for all that Marner sets up Matthews beyond what, say, Nylander would be capable of, he still struggles to finish his own chances. Is Matthews a great or even very good playmaker? It's hard to say when he usually plays with guys who struggle to score from the ranges he does himself with ease.

"struggles" to finish his own chances? Really? (18 goals in 50 games)
Comparing his ability to make other players better to ... Nylander? (where did Tavares' 47 goal pace go, against a weaker North division?!?)

Yeesh.

 

[justloveleafs]

It's a top 5 passer in the game with the best goal scorer, they both help one another to create one of the best duos in hockey

Dude, I have no like button. But would a Jack Campbell hug suffice, great post.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

"struggles" to finish his own chances? Really? (18 goals in 50 games)
Comparing his ability to make other players better to ... Nylander? (where did Tavares' 47 goal pace go, against a weaker North division?!?)

Yeesh.

18 goals in 52 games, 3 of which are ENG. That's a 24-goal pace over 82 games while averaging more TOI than any forward but McDavid. So what part of what I said is wrong? Is he actually a great goal scorer? No, Marner still has a weak shot with a slow release. He has great hands and puck control instead.

Yes, I compared Marner's playmaking ability to Nylander's and said it was better. No shit. What part of that are you actually disagreeing with? Of course Tavares would probably be putting up more points if he played with Marner full time. Tavares' shooting rates and % have both gone down significantly in the last couple of seasons, but conversely, his assist rates are going up slightly, so go figure.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I'm not sure about "one of the best all-around" but he's been great and I'm happy with what he brings everyday so I have no complaints. I just prefer Marner with Tavares b/c it gives us 2 guys who are capable of scoring 40. Don't get me wrong, Marner & Matthews is so fun to watch, my personal preference is the balance but I'm also sitting at home vs coaching so....

He has one of the highest faceoff percentages in the league, 13th for centers in terms of assists, 20th in goals (in spite of his snake bitten start of the season), and well-above average defensively this year too. He is no Matthews, MacKinnon, McDavid, etc. but he has quietly and consistently been amazing all year and if he was ES goals like he normally does (and has now been doing for almost a month now), he would be given a ton of praise right now. Same if we had a non-anemic PP that actually uses him for more than a high slot screen.

He came out with a bang in his first year here because how can you not notice a guy who puts up 47 goals, but he is one of the most consistent guys I have ever seen while also being arguably the least flashy superstar in the league. That can make him go unnoticed.

 

[slozo]

18 goals in 52 games, 3 of which are ENG. That's a 24-goal pace over 82 games while averaging more TOI than any forward but McDavid. So what part of what I said is wrong? Is he actually a great goal scorer? No, Marner still has a weak shot with a slow release. He has great hands and puck control instead.

Yes, I compared Marner's playmaking ability to Nylander's and said it was better. No shit. What part of that are you actually disagreeing with? Of course Tavares would probably be putting up more points if he played with Marner full time. Tavares' shooting rates and % have both gone down significantly in the last couple of seasons, but conversely, his assist rates are going up slightly, so go figure.

Marner has more goals than Tavares and Nylander, facts.
He's 2nd on the team in goal scoring.

So I continue to question your statement about him being somehow deficient for goal scoring . . . not his forte obviously; but he's pretty darn good at it still. Better than Tavares and Nylander this year, both considered solid goal scorers.

 

[mydnyte]

He has one of the highest faceoff percentages in the league, 13th for centers in terms of assists, 20th in goals (in spite of his snake bitten start of the season), and well-above average defensively this year too. He is no Matthews, MacKinnon, McDavid, etc. but he has quietly and consistently been amazing all year and if he was ES goals like he normally does (and has now been doing for almost a month now), he would be given a ton of praise right now. Same if we had a non-anemic PP that actually uses him for more than a high slot screen.

He came out with a bang in his first year here because how can you not notice a guy who puts up 47 goals, but he is one of the most consistent guys I have ever seen while also being arguably the least flashy superstar in the league. That can make him go unnoticed.

Tavares asked to be put in front of the net. ...quick hands/release

 

[mydnyte]

Marner has more goals than Tavares and Nylander, facts.
He's 2nd on the team in goal scoring.

So I continue to question your statement about him being somehow deficient for goal scoring . . . not his forte obviously; but he's pretty darn good at it still. Better than Tavares and Nylander this year, both considered solid goal scorers.

Marner averages 4 mins more per game than Tavares, and 6 more than Nylander, and they are 1 and 2 goals behind.
Marner is not an elite NHL scorer and never has been, Tavares is, and Nylander is also a better scorer then Marner over their careers.

Marner gets the most opportunity of any player on the team to shoot on net, and if he had even an above average shot, he'd be a 30+ goal scorer every year. ...its something he can still develop, as it is better this year, but, too inconsistent

 

[Joey Hoser]

I am not going to read through the whole thread, but you must be mentally deficient, to use the more PC term - to have voted "Marner needs Matthews to be great" choice.
(both are great players btw, regardless of who they play with)

Marner has already proved otherwise.
90 point season without Matthews, giving a veteran superstar (Tavares) 47 goals, his highest total ever despite the fact he's on the downslope from his prime that year.

The best Matthews did without Marner (other than the pp, which they've always been on together) is . . . 40, in his rookie year. He was basically on that same pace next 2 years, then when Babs got fired his next year, switched to Marner. Instant huge uptick.

All evidence points to the OPPOSITE being true, in fact - that Matthews is only a "good" superstar without Marner, and with Marner, is a Hart candidate and Rocket winner.
Discuss.

Matthews has looked like a generational goal scorer the whole time. It's not like he started playing with Marner and then all of a sudden started blowing the doors off. It's been a consistent run-up to this point for him.

I don't go either way on the topic in general, though. They are both great with or without each other, and I think this discussion is just searching for an argument that doesn't need to happen.

 

[nsleaf]

Where is the "dumb poll" option.

 

[Notsince67]

Marner averages 4 mins more per game than Tavares, and 6 more than Nylander, and they are 1 and 2 goals behind.
Marner is not an elite NHL scorer and never has been, Tavares is, and Nylander is also a better scorer then Marner over their careers.

Marner gets the most opportunity of any player on the team to shoot on net, and if he had even an above average shot, he'd be a 30+ goal scorer every year. ...its something he can still develop, as it is better this year, but, too inconsistent

Now take out the penalty kill

 

[Doublerum1975]

Now take out the penalty kill

That makes to much sense get out of here lol