Is Marner much less w/o Matthews? Is Matthews much less w/o Marner?

Discussion in 'Toronto Maple Leafs' started by Holymakinaw, May 3, 2021 at 8:43 AM.

?

Who is MORE important than whom?

  1. Matthews needs Mitch to be a truly elite goal scorer.

    5.6%
  2. Marner just ain't that special w/o Matthews.

    16.9%
  3. It's been Hyman, all along.

    8.9%
  4. Equally as important(for those who requested this option)

    68.5%
  1. Holymakinaw Registered User

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    Who is more important to the other?

    Matthews started his career playing mostly with Hyman and Nylander, and did very well, scoring 40 goals in his rookie season, followed by 34 and then 37 goal seasons. But he REALLY took off once he was paired with Marner two years ago, and responded with 47 goals(paced for 55, I think?) and this season's 38 & counting(pacing for 65!!!). Surely Marner has had a lot to do wth that, setting him up so beautifully, so often.

    And conversely, Marner started with Tavares and Kapanen(or Johnsson) and did very well for the first few years(61 pts, 69 pts) and then had a breakout year of 94 points largely without Matthews. Then he's continued at that torrid pace the last two years with Matthews, getting 67 last year(paced for 93) and 64 so far this year(pacing for 103!!!). Is it largely because of Matthews, though? He also did it w/o Matthews 3 years ago.

    The two of them are one of the best pairings in the NHL, no doubt.

    Just vote and answer the damn poll, would ya? ;)
     
  2. DarkKnight Professional Amateur

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    Why can’t you have an option for mutually important?

    I’m not voting. In fact it’s just divisive for no reason.
     
  3. Mugzy97 #StandWitness

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    Agreed, horrible poll. They are both superstars without the other. Let's just consider ourselves lucky to have two of them at the same time. We haven't had 2 players this good in my lifetime, possibly in franchise history?
     
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  4. Advanced stats Registered User

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    Both are top 10 players, but both compliment each other very very well.
     
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  5. DarkKnight Professional Amateur

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    Yep, they’ve both proven their worth independently. Together they’re the best duo in the game.
     
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  6. ECYCLE Registered User

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    Terrible choices.
     
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  7. Confucius We Can and We Will

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    Mathews would be great without Mitch but he is even better with him.
     
  8. francis246 Registered User

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    They both need each other. The crazy thing is Mitch has proven he can drive a line. Whether it’s with Bozak, Tavares or Matthews. He’s made each of those three a lot better.

    both are elite in their own right. But Marner is def undervalued by this fan base because of his contract. He is a top level player with insane vision.
    We are so lucky to have two superstars who are amazing at creating turnovers that lead to goals.
     
  9. ToneDog 54 years and counting

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    Marner has proven that he makes his Centres better. IMO the decrease in Matty's production playing with Nylander would be less than the increase from JT playing with Marner.
     
  10. Optimist Wendel and I

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    My choice isn't listed in the poll so I didn't vote.
     
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  11. Cotton Registered User

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    The correct answer isn’t an option.
     
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  12. Voodoo Child Registered User

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    Both are franchise level talents - Matthews popped 40 in his D1 with two other rookies, and in his sophomore season Mitch got 94 points.


    But I do think both are a little less without the other.
     
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  13. Garthinater Registered User

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    Marner has a history of making his centers better.

    But not going to vote as this is a flawed poll.
     
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  14. Holymakinaw Registered User

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    There. I added that "easy" option for those who refuse to take a stand. Happy? ;)

    I voted that Matthews, in fact, needs Mitch Marner, to be a TRULY elite goal scorer. Otherwise, he'll just be a very good one. Since he's had Mitch.........it's been pure magic.
     
  15. DarkKnight Professional Amateur

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    Easy? The fact you categorize it that way, I don’t know what to say. Why can’t it be mutually beneficial? I mean JT had 12 more even strength goals playing with Marner, a career year. Matthews has been a stud with Willie. So, both have established they’re stand alone stars, the fact we are seeing such a dynamic duo this year, a tribute to both of them. That ain’t “easy” that’s actually the best option, but I like nuance.
     
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  16. Holymakinaw Registered User

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    It's a joke, Man. The little winking face is a clue for that. Maybe lighten up?
     
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  17. Bust Registered User

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    I think this is the first time in Matthews career he’s been paired with someone who actually compliments his play. That’s why we’re seeing this chemistry between the two. IMO.
     
  18. DarkKnight Professional Amateur

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    Okay sorry I’ve entered your world, it makes no sense to me. Lighten up? Don’t get it, I just offered a view why that isn’t easy. Bye.
     
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  19. Mess Global Moderator

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    That would be my answer as well.

    Matthews won the Calder Trophy and scored 40 goals as a 19 year old with Hyman and either Nylander/Connor Brown as his wingers in year #1.

    If Hyman and Nylander were still his regular wingers today and Marner played regularly back with JT like he use to do, I don't believe the impact on Auston would be all that different statistically, while acknowledging that Marner is > Nylander in terms of playmaking.

    Marner is an elite playmaking winger, however statistically he is dependent on having elite finishers on his line as he himself is a secondary offensive weapon, while a natural gifted goal scorer like AM is a primary scoring weapon that make his wingers statistically better regardless whom they might be. IMO

    Both are great players so its not a criticism nor slight to either player however;

    Goals drive production and thus player stats when determining primary and secondary offense and dependency relationships.
     
  20. axman15 Registered User

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    Both are great, but Marner needs a guy like Matthews to put the puck in the net. How many of his assists are as a result of Matthews making a play/shot that very few other guys could make?

    Again, no hate, Marner is incredible and we’re lucky to have him. But Matthews has a huge impact on his numbers.
     
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  21. DarkKnight Professional Amateur

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    Then how did he have almost as good numbers without him two years ago? In fact, haven’t their numbers improved in unison, two years ago Austin wasn’t at this level without Mitch, seems a synergy. You’re right a set up man needs a finisher, but a finisher needs a guy to get him the puck.
     
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  22. LFCTML Registered User

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    It's kind of a stupid question, IMO, but if you were playing each of them on separate lines, Matthews is the guy that other teams would be more worried about. Marner is an absolute stud though. We're spoiled to have them both, now can we stop with these moronic threads?
     
  23. BertCorbeau Global Moderator

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    For the years prior to playing with Marner (2016-2019), Matthews is #5 in goals scored despite playing less than roughly 30 games than others in that top 10.

    NHL Stats

    If you take is G/PG and he played an additional 30 games, he'd be second on the list behind Ovi. That's damn elite without Marner.

    They're equally as important to each other in being the best duo in the league. We're extremely lucky to have both.
     
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  24. ToneDog 54 years and counting

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    I bet JT agrees with you. JT not getting many tap-ins since Mitch was moved off his line.
     
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  25. BTP Registered User

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    Every player who plays with Marner as their wing ends up having a career year.

    Both equally important but you cant sleep on that fact of life.

    From Tavares 47 goals to Matthews this season, they all have Marner in common.
     

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