Is Marner much less w/o Matthews? Is Matthews much less w/o Marner?

[RealisticLeaf55]

All I know is they are both elite players you build a team around and they make our rivals and HFboards main thread very angry when they are successful.

I love having both of them after over a decade of no playoffs and failed drafting.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Why can't we just think they are both good, and both benefit from playing with each other? Why we gotta have a stupid hot take?

 

[Egghead1999]

They should swap Marner and Nylander and see what happens.

Keefe does not dare to do so. Now, Leafs have Foligno and should try this in a couple of games

Foligno - AM34 -Nylander
Hyman - JT - Marner

 

[TorontoTrades]

They're the classic set up guy and finisher. The make eachother better.

Marner put up big numbers without Matthews and Matthews scored alot of goals without Marner. Together they are both in the top 5 for points.

 

[DarkKnight]

Matthews is arguably the team's top centre. Marner is arguably the team's top winger. I think the same holds true whether or not they are linemates. Totally fine with cloning Hyman should that need arise though!

No need for “arguably”.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Is peanut butter much less without jam, or is jam much less without peanut butter?

Not to take a dump on the original question, because its all in good fun. But much like peanut butter and jam, they are an elite combination.

Auston and mitch are generational players in my opinion, but compliment each other so well that it brings out the absolute best in both.

We are a very lucky fanbase right now

 

[DopeyFish]

Matthews really does need a competent set up man. We know that from those times when he had Hyman and Brown as his wingers and his offense jumped off a cliff. He doesn't have the speed to really become a consistent playmaker as he's always being challenged when he has the puck.

Marner is damn good, Matthews is damn good. Matthews can create on the fly but it's not sustainable. That's why he needed either Marner or Nylander on his wing to continually drive offense. Marner is the opposite where he's a very good set up man, but he needs finishers. He can create offensive opportunities constantly but needs someone that can finish the plays because he's not so good at scoring himself.

So the answer is both are equally as important. They are both parts of a 1-2 punch. Marner can probably work with lesser players a bit better than Matthews can but in the end you don't want to be in that situation as a team anyways. Matthews isn't dependent on Marner and Marner isn't dependent on Matthews but more that he's dependent on playmakers in general much like Marner is dependent on scorers.

 

[DarkKnight]

Matthews really does need a competent set up man. We know that from those times when he had Hyman and Brown as his wingers and his offense jumped off a cliff. He doesn't have the speed to really become a consistent playmaker as he's always being challenged when he has the puck.

Marner is damn good, Matthews is damn good. Matthews can create on the fly but it's not sustainable. That's why he needed either Marner or Nylander on his wing to continually drive offense. Marner is the opposite where he's a very good set up man, but he needs finishers. He can create offensive opportunities constantly but needs someone that can finish the plays because he's not so good at scoring himself.

So the answer is both are equally as important. They are both parts of a 1-2 punch. Marner can probably work with lesser players a bit better than Matthews can but in the end you don't want to be in that situation as a team anyways. Matthews isn't dependent on Marner and Marner isn't dependent on Matthews but more that he's dependent on playmakers in general much like Marner is dependent on scorers.

Good post.

One additional point to this discussion, Marner is literally looking to get Matthews the puck at every turn, sometimes almost too much. And every time Mitch gets the puck, he draws a crowd and Matthews finds the soft spot in the coverage to accept the pass. It’s poetry watching two guys do what everyone knows they are going to do, but can’t stop it, because they’re both the BEST at their craft.

 

[leafsfan5]

It's a top 5 passer in the game with the best goal scorer, they both help one another to create one of the best duos in hockey

 

[Buds17]

No need for “arguably”.

I certainly wouldn't argue it!

 

[supermann_98]

Dumb poll. Matthews was drafted 1st overall and scored 40 goals as a rookie without Marner and without any PP time.

Marner was drafted 4th overall and won every individual award in the CHL, then carried whatever line he was played on in the NHL before ever getting to play with Matthews for more than a shift or two.

To say they need each other to produce is a joke. To say Hyman is the reason for their production is even worse

 

[ACC1224]

It's a top 5 passer in the game with the best goal scorer, they both help one another to create one of the best duos in hockey

Who would be considered the top 5?

 

[Leafsfan74]

Players play with whomever the coach tells them to play with so it's a moot point as such. Each reliies on the other as long as they are on the same line.

As it were, they were both highly touted. 1st and 4th picks overall in their respective drafts. Marner was second in the OHL in points, Matthews had a unique career on the way up, his work on the International stage and playing in the Swiss league (how lucky are the Leafs that he didn't go in the 2015 draft? They couldn't pick both players).

I do believe that if they stay together their entire careers that the Leafs record book will have both of their names up top, along with a couple of Cups almost certainly. The Oates/Hull of our time, though hopefully for much longer (imagine Oates career totals if he would have been working with Hull for the years he helped Neely?).

Hell, we might be comparing them more to Gretzky/Kurri at some point. Win some Cups and these guys will live for eternity in Toronto and the comparisons won't seem so outlandish.

 

[leafsfan5]

Who would be considered the top 5?

I'd have McDavid, Kucherov, Panarin, Marner in my top 4 for sure. 5 is probably Draisaitl

 

[Puckstuff]

I'd have McDavid, Kucherov, Panarin, Marner in my top 4 for sure. 5 is probably Draisaitl

what about kane

 

[leafsfan5]

what about kane

He's another good one but I'm not sure who you'd take over him on this list other than Drai

 

[WilyStyless03SHYla]

Both can drive they're own line seperately , but why not put the generational vision , with the generational goal scoring.

Especially with the depth the Leafs have.

 

[Mats13]

Both are great

Stupid poll and divisive for no reason

 

[Goose]

I don’t care if peanut butter is better or jam is better.

I’m just going to keep making PB&J sandwiches.

 

[StevenB]

Matthews was a superstar without Marner and vice versa. It’s makes sense that their numbers rise together as they are both getting older and starting to come into their prime. Elite players benefit from playing with elite players but Matthews still put up points playing with KK and AJ. Marner had an amazing rookie season with JVR and ballsack. They’re both elite players in their own right

 

[Le Cobra]

they are unique all stars. voted Hyman for sh and giggles

 

[authentic]

Both are franchise level talents - Matthews popped 40 in his D1 with two other rookies, and in his sophomore season Mitch got 94 points.


But I do think both are a little less without the other.

Also consider that scoring was lower that season, and his total ice time was just 17:38 with only 2 minutes per game on the powerplay. Still finished 2nd in goals, and could've easily been the goal scoring leader if he played regular minutes. Auston Matthews today would be a 60 goal superstar two-way forward without Marner, with him we might see 65-70.

 

[socko]

They're not equals. There isn't a GM on this planet that wouldn't take Matthews first. It's kind of like the McDavid and Drai thing. Both real good, but only 1 is generational.

 

[wingman75]

I think Marner would make anyone he plays with better. I also think Matthews could do it on his own if he had to, but with Marner there he makes it easier for Matthews for sure, and I think that extra effort is now directed to Matthews defensive effort. In effect, making Matthews a better all-round player... which is a big win for the team.

 

[Antropovsky]

I think of Marner as a Backstrom and Matthews as Ovechkin.