Is Jon Cooper our weakest link?

[LTIR Trickery]

Might as well go golfing now, no sense in going to the playoffs.

 

[Steazy Doo]

Team is on a historic pace and people want to change the head coach. This is whack

 

[LTIR Trickery]

Team is on a historic pace and people want to change the head coach. This is whack

Nah man, you heard him, we're not going anywhere. Lets hit the links.

 

[JoVel]

Wow. You sure told me. Did Cooper build a mini rink in Kuch's garage and then make him practice taking 1000's of shots? Blah blah blah.

Cup or bust

Judging by some overreactions here I'd say it's 82-0 or bust.

 

[Todd1a]

Might as well go golfing now, no sense in going to the playoffs.

Lol

 

[Spirit of 67]

Are you not entertained?

LOL.

Ya. I guess.

 

[These Are The Days]

This thread

 

[Vasilevskiy]

definitely the most spoiled bunch in the whole boards. You guys are hilarious.

 

[Rschmitz]

This thread reminds me of the main board thread anointing Boston as Cup favorites after last night. There's short sighted perspective and knee jerk reactions, and then there's this.

First off, I don't like Coopers personality. I think he's dry and doesn't know how to speak to the camera, giving away very little. He doesn't make me feel good about the team after a loss, or put things into perspective after a win. I miss Boucher in that regard whom I always felt was taking care of business behind the scenes. I can also objectively say that Cooper does get out coached from time to time, he makes some very questionable decisions, and he can be very slow to adjust or simply has no answer mid game.

..and guess what? Firing him is perhaps the most idiotic thing I've seen suggested on here. No offense, he's one of the top coaches in the league.

For whatever reason this conversation won't go away. Like an ugly wart. It started in the 2015 playoffs when we almost lost to Babcock in round 1, and I mostly dismissed that as a release of frustrations. But then we kept winning. A Stanley Cup finals appearance that year, two more Eastern Conference finals appearances, and now we are on the verge of one of the best regular season performances of all time. Yet, here we are again. A bunch of fickle fans with unrealistic expectations. A bunch of cowards preparing ourselves to fail. Having suffered though those really bad years after 96, I'm disappointed that some of you can't sit back and just enjoy this and wait till the offseason to pick ourselves apart.

 

[Todd1a]

This thread reminds me of the main board thread anointing Boston as Cup favorites after last night. There's short sighted perspective and knee jerk reactions, and then there's this.

First off, I don't like Coopers personality. I think he's dry and doesn't know how to speak to the camera, giving away very little. He doesn't make me feel good about the team after a loss, or put things into perspective after a win. I miss Boucher in that regard whom I always felt was taking care of business behind the scenes. I can also objectively say that Cooper does get out coached from time to time, he makes some very questionable decisions, and he can be very slow to adjust or simply has no answer mid game.

..and guess what? Firing him is perhaps the most idiotic thing I've seen suggested on here. No offense, he's one of the top coaches in the league.

For whatever reason this conversation won't go away. Like an ugly wart. It started in the 2015 playoffs when we almost lost to Babcock in round 1, and I mostly dismissed that as a release of frustrations. But then we kept winning. A Stanley Cup finals appearance that year, two more Eastern Conference finals appearances, and now we are on the verge of one of the best regular season performances of all time. Yet, here we are again. A bunch of fickle fans with unrealistic expectations. A bunch of cowards preparing ourselves to fail. Having suffered though those really bad years after 96, I'm disappointed that some of you can't sit back and just enjoy this and wait till the offseason to pick ourselves apart.

Windows come and go I think this is the best lightning roster ever and yes better then the 2004 lightning. There is nothing wrong with our fan base that wants the absolute best coach possible to coach this team. The question is how many times can you give cooper in the playoffs to come up short ? When a hall of fame hockey coach is sitting out there in Joel Q is looking for work would I upgrade yes! If Erik karlsson wants to sign with the lightning this summer would I trade gourde and Miller to get karlsson absolutely yes I would! You always should consider options to give your self the best possible chance to win. Now what if this summer cooper demands a Babcock contract 8 years 8 million per season would you give it to him ? Cooper is a free agent this summer and can go where ever he wants. But prove me wrong cooper I want to be proven wrong win the cup bring it home! To Tampa bay!

 

[Rschmitz]

Windows come and go I think this is the best lightning roster ever and yes better then the 2004 lightning. There is nothing wrong with our fan base that wants the absolute best coach possible to coach this team. The question is how many times can you give cooper in the playoffs to come up short ? When a hall of fame hockey coach is sitting out there in Joel Q is looking for work would I upgrade yes! If Erik karlsson wants to sign with the lightning this summer would I trade gourde and Miller to get karlsson absolutely yes I would! You always should consider options to give your self the best possible chance to win. Now what if this summer cooper demands a Babcock contract 8 years 8 million per season would you give it to him ? Cooper is a free agent this summer and can go where ever he wants. But prove me wrong cooper I want to be proven wrong win the cup bring it home! To Tampa bay!

So why are you wanting to see such an unnecessary gamble?

You're talking about blowing up a system and erasing years of continuity for a chance that the new guy coming in may be better than Cooper and may be able to eventually get the players to buy in and perfect his system. Eventually. It's definitely no certainty and if it does, it'll take a lot of time. I'd say the reverse is just as likely, none of these young stars have had success under another coach. The new coach is going shakeup the team to get his guys in, and by the time everything falls into place, if it does, it'll be near the end of whatever window we had. No thank you

 

[PJ817]

yes agree lets see if he can get it done in june

He has to get it done in April and May first and I'm a little leery of him getting it done in either month (not because of the BOS game, that was just tired guys) BUT

HTH did we allow the Rags and the Kings to get even close to beating us?

Coop, prove me wrong but I think you're too nice and too calm to be an @#ho#@ needed to win the Cup

That said, I kind of feel like Kuch will be this year's Ovi and lift that team onto his shoulders along with Point (like Oshie and Backstrom) hauling the team to the SCF... maybe in that vein, Coop is irrelevant

 

[These Are The Days]

Still waiting on an explanation as to how a different coach is going to correct our deficiencies against clogging everything up as if this is going to fix any remaining issues we have in skill.


I love how no one gives zero f***s that the mighty VGK struggled even more than we did

 

[PJ817]

Still waiting on an explanation as to how a different coach is going to correct our deficiencies against clogging everything up as if this is going to fix any remaining issues we have in skill.

A different coach right now, will not fix anything - it's simply too late

I hope Coop proves me wrong but I think he is too slow to adjust in 7 game series to another coach's tactics; there's no way on paper that the Caps should have beaten the Bolts last year and that, I blame 50% on Cooper and 50% on Ovi just willing his teammates to win... but Cooper was outcoached, outclassed by Trotz

This year, feels like much the same from Coop, the difference is the team itself is playing ticked off and hungry - that's not coming from some insight or motivation from the coach, that's the guys... Coops just riding their coattails

 

[Crunchrulz]

Should the organization opts to let Coach Cooper go, he will not be without a coaching position at the NHL level very long if he wishes to keep coaching. As some have commented on here, it would be a mistake. That being typed, his coaching style until he reached the NHL level, is far better suited for a Western Conference team.

 

[DrMartinVanNostrand]

This year, feels like much the same from Coop, the difference is the team itself is playing ticked off and hungry - that's not coming from some insight or motivation from the coach, that's the guys... Coops just riding their coattails

I'm as much of a Cooper-skeptic as anyone else here, but I think this is way too narrow a view and it's disingenuous to not be giving a head coach some credit for keeping a team's engine going like this.

Yes, the ability to exploit line matchups and develop schemes to create attacks/limit attacks in your end is a huge part of the job. Another big part of it is man management. I'm not sure that's always been a strength of Cooper, but he's clearly doing something right with respect to that this year.

That being said - who are the best head coaches he's faced in the playoffs during his career? Probably Babcock, Quenneville, Sullivan, and Trotz. Honorable mention to Vigneault. Against those five, his teams have won two out of five times, lost the other three, and both wins went seven games, one of which was against a markedly inferior team (Babcock 2015). The bigger issue that has recurred over the years is, when the Lightning have home ice advantage, they don't tend to keep it or do much with it; under Cooper, the Lightning are 2-6 in Game 1 when they've played at home for that game. They are constantly fighting an uphill challenge before the series has really gotten off the ground. In the meetings against those five head coaches, the Lightning are 6-11 in their 17 home games. It's a frustrating thing; if you add up the Lightning's playoff road records in 2015 (8-5), 2016 (5-3), and 2018 (5-2), you get an 18-10 record, a .643 win percentage. If you're winning 64% of your road games in the playoffs, you should be winning multiple Cups. All of that has been completely wasted with their home records in that time; 6-7 in 2015, 6-3 in 2016 (only 3-3 after round one), and 6-4 last year (only 3-4 after round one), cumulatively adding up to 18-14. Not good enough. Not good enough at all.

You guys ever wonder why this year has an all-or-nothing feel to it? We've arguably had the most talented rosters in the NHL for the last few seasons now. We unquestionably did last year. There's no shame in losing to the dynasty 'Hawks in 2015, even despite the 2-1 lead after three games. They were a better team and took their chances better than we did. But we blew a 3-2 lead in 2016 in the ECF, and we blew a 3-2 lead last year as well. In both years, I believe we win the Final if we finish out those series. On another timeline, the Lightning are the current Cup-winning powerhouse in the NHL, not Pittsburgh. I don't know where that timeline is, nor how to access it. But the timeline we do exist on is begging for the Lightning to finally show their Cup winning credibility. It's already very tenuous after those defeats the last two playoff years, but if the Lightning fail to do the job once again, and at least get out of the East, then forget it. Nobody will ever buy stock in us again, as is. Nor should they.

 

[Iceman]

He's a good guy but he has been outcoached every playoffs.

The thing is though, if we let him go, we are more likely to get a worse coach than a better one.

 

[Hint1k]

My latest fear is that Coop will get out coached in the Playoffs!......Teams that play us "Heavy" and trap us in the neutral zone always cause us problems. Coop can not adjust . Teams that have done this to us very effectively have caused many turnovers, shut down PP entry, created odd man rushes against us.

Changing line personal is not game situational adjustments. Pure skill and speed will get nulified come playoff time.........that was proven last year and I don't see much difference this year.

Not really a Cooper's fault. Any team may have this problem if its opponent executed the trap good enough. Overall our ability to overcome the trap is ok in comparison with the rest of the league.

The real Cooper's fault is D-zone exits. The opposite team forecheck gives us way more troubles than it should be.

 

[PJ817]

The thing is though, if we let him go, we are more likely to get a worse coach than a better one.

Q > Cooper
Fixed that for you

 

[Hoek]

So why are you wanting to see such an unnecessary gamble?

You're talking about blowing up a system and erasing years of continuity for a chance that the new guy coming in may be better than Cooper and may be able to eventually get the players to buy in and perfect his system. Eventually. It's definitely no certainty and if it does, it'll take a lot of time. I'd say the reverse is just as likely, none of these young stars have had success under another coach. The new coach is going shakeup the team to get his guys in, and by the time everything falls into place, if it does, it'll be near the end of whatever window we had. No thank you

Case in point it took the guy all the Cooper haters worship (Trotz) four years to get the Caps to win.

 

[JoVel]

Case in point it took the guy all the Cooper haters worship (Trotz) four years to get the Caps to win.

And it wasn't like they had bad teams, or even average, that Caps team was clearly above abyone else in the league in 2015-16 and 2016-17, but Trotz failed to get them the Cup with those superior teams. Now that he won the Cup people treat him like a god while Cooper is the worst coach in the league.

 

[DrMartinVanNostrand]

Case in point it took the guy all the Cooper haters worship (Trotz) four years to get the Caps to win.

Not just that. In Nashville, Trotz had the second-best team (points-wise) in the West in 2005-'06, and got dumped in five games in the first round. Home-ice again the next year - dumped out in five in round one (by the same team, no less). In fact, only in 2011-'12 did Trotz get the Predators beyond the first round* (against an injury-battered Red Wings team, but I digress). Now, important context does note that the Predators at that time were one of the most financially limited teams in the league and definitely not an attractive market like they've blossomed into today, but even when they did have some strong teams they went nowhere fast in the playoffs under Trotz; only in recent years under Laviolette have they made real, sustained progress.

So, if you're keeping track, prior to last season Trotz teams had lost nine of the 14 playoff series' they had played in. Now, they went 4-0 last year, won a Cup, and his persona has changed. Fair enough. Winning a Cup will do that. He's earned that right. But if you want to compare him to Cooper - Cooper teams are 7-4 in the 11 playoff series they've played under him, across four playoff years. Again, the comparison isn't really quite apples-to-apples (maybe it's red apples to green apples; p.s. red apples suck), but the point being that it only takes one year of it all coming together and your image can be changed permanently. Hopefully this is the year the worm turns for Cooper.

*actually, they reached the second round in 2010-'11 as well, but I only remembered afterwards and don't feel like editing my post.

 

[AlphaCatalyst]

A few years ago Johnson, Palat, and Killorn played on a team that won a championship. (It was AHL but still.) They even had an insane win streak something like 28 in a row. We should find out who that coach was. Sounds like he knows how to win.

 

[Master P]

Found T REX's alt account.

 

[ccman68]

I’m usually fine with Cooper but his lineup decisions recently have been absolutely ridiculous. Sick of seeing Palat having a guaranteed spot in the top six while Gourde or Miller has to play in the bottom six.