Is John Tavares still a top 10 forward in the NHL?

[RMimagery]

The only reason why Islander fans are getting defensive and maybe even aggressive is because this has gone on multiple times before and we're expected to take it every time. It's getting to be ridiculous. We had to just sit back and watch other fans mock us and our team because every time we say something we get put down and insults are thrown our way. Both those threads show that.



Wow. I can't believe he actually changed the post

I know, then he ignores his deception.

Class.

 

[Protest]

Bad analogy.

We're the guy who gets knocked out in a fight, spends years training MMA and hitting the gym daily, then emerge looking like Brock Lesnar and kick the ever-loving crap out of whoever messed with us before.

You're like the dude who takes that beating and goes "Who cares that my nose is broken? Remember when I beat you up in 2008?"

It's actually sad that you can be this brash and full of pride over the possibility of making the playoffs.

 

[RMimagery]

They're both pretty even

True.

John is an elite goal scorer and excellent playmaker.

Claude is an elite playmaker and excellent goal scorer.

I doubt there's more than a handful of fans of either team who would trade one for the other.

This has really run it's course and I'm surprised it's been left to continue for so long.

 

[CodeE]

It's actually sad that you can be this brash and full of pride over the possibility of making the playoffs.

Crazy how those rebuilds work.

Maybe you can go find some Blackhawk fans so you can laugh at them for the Tyler Arnason years and bring up how much better the Flyers were back then.

 

[Protest]

Crazy how those rebuilds work.

Maybe you can go find some Blackhawk fans so you can laugh at them for the Tyler Arnason years and bring up how much better the Flyers were back then.

Dude I can't... I seriously can't believe this happening, even for the internet this is ridiculous. The Blackhawks have been one of the best teams in the league over the past 6 years. The Islanders might make the playoffs this year.

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

Dude I can't... I seriously can't believe this happening, even for the internet this is ridiculous. The Blackhawks have been one of the best teams in the league over the past 6 years. The Islanders might make the playoffs this year.

The point I think he's trying to make (and it's ridiculous) is that Chicago was horrible when they had Tyler Arnason ten years ago and the Flyers were good...but didn't the Flyers lose to the Hawks in the final as little as five or so years ago?

 

[Protest]

The point I think he's trying to make (and it's ridiculous) is that Chicago was horrible when they had Tyler Arnason ten years ago and the Flyers were good...but didn't the Flyers lose to the Hawks in the final as little as five or so years ago?

I know what he's trying to say, and yes it is ridiculous

 

[CodeE]

Dude I can't... I seriously can't believe this happening, even for the internet this is ridiculous. The Blackhawks have been one of the best teams in the league over the past 6 years. The Islanders might make the playoffs this year.

Season is halfway done, top team in the metro. 1 point behind the Lightning for top team in the east with a game in hand.

You can continue to play the "might make the playoffs" game, but any hockey fan knows that at this point it would take a colossal collapse for the Islanders to miss the playoffs. If they play .500 hockey the rest of the way, (as opposed to winning 2 games for every game they've lost) they should be in.

The past is history. The only people who should be bringing up the past are those team who've won Stanley Cups. Acting superior because your team made the playoffs more in the 2000s is irrelevant when you have zero Stanley Cups to show for it.

I'd much rather stick with my team through a painful rebuild then waddle in mediocrity and puff my chest about all those times I almost won the Cup. But you might as well continue to argue about the past when you don't have the ammunition to argue about the present or future.

 

[Nolanitis]

I'm sorry I "cherry picked" the last 20 years. My apologies for only including the past two decades. I'm sorry I used such a narrow sample size.

Listen dude, your team isn't Detroit, or Chicago, or LA, or Boston. You don't get to talk trash when you're team has been largely irrelevant to the rest of the hockey world for the past 20 years. You root for a team that has sucked for the better part of 2 decades, so you don't get to talk ****. You're like a dude that just got knocked out in a fight and says "you want some more" as the other guy is walking away. It makes you look like a fool.

Imagine if the Oilers were in first place in their division by 1 point next year halfway through the season, and their fans started to talk **** on other teams for sucking....Yea that's what's happening here.

You see even those franchises went through tough times before they started winning. Isles fans believe that this team is in the 1st of many consecutive winning seasons, as the players and prospect pool is there to sustain them.

As for throwing the 1st punch Stonehands, not one of these Giroux v Tavares threads have been started by Isles fans, go back and look. All year Isles fans have been ridiculed (1st ten games, see you at half season as Buffalo gets two lottery picks, 20 games in, reality has not set in, 40 games in 1st in divison, Isles will miss playoffs, not make it out of first round, Tavares is not top 10, 20 , 30.....) Philly fans are living up to their reputation for sure here, as are some Rangers fan, and a couple Caps fans. We get it, but the reality is you guys are greatly underestimating how good the Isles team is and Tavares coming off an injury is just below a ppg, and due for a big 2nd half.

 

[Protest]

Season is halfway done, top team in the metro. 1 point behind the Lightning for top team in the east with a game in hand.

You can continue to play the "might make the playoffs" game, but any hockey fan knows that at this point it would take a colossal collapse for the Islanders to miss the playoffs. If they play .500 hockey the rest of the way, (as opposed to winning 2 games for every game they've lost) they should be in.

Yes it would, and those happen from time to time. You ever watch the Mets?

The past is history. The only people who should be bringing up the past are those team who've won Stanley Cups. Acting superior because your team made the playoffs more in the 2000s is irrelevant when you have zero Stanley Cups to show for it.

But acting superior when the team you root for has been one of the laughing stocks of the league for the better part of 20 years is totally cool cause you're probably going to the playoffs? Honestly dude, it's sad that you're this cocky over the possibility of making the playoffs. There's a lot of teams in the league that expect to make the playoffs every year. Making the playoffs for them is the norm, not something to be proud of or celebrate.

I'd much rather stick with my team through a painful rebuild then waddle in mediocrity and puff my chest about all those times I almost won the Cup. But you might as well continue to argue about the past when you don't have the ammunition to argue about the present or future.

1) When did I puff my chest? All I've done is point out the Islanders futility over the past 20 years.

2) Maybe you should wait until the Islanders win another cup before you start to talk like they've won 3 already?

 

[Rehabguy]

Yes it would, and those happen from time to time. You ever watch the Mets?



But acting superior when the team you root for has been one of the laughing stocks of the league for the better part of 20 years is totally cool cause you're probably going to the playoffs? Honestly dude, it's sad that you're this cocky over the possibility of making the playoffs. There's a lot of teams in the league that expect to make the playoffs every year. Making the playoffs for them is the norm, not something to be proud of or celebrate.



1) When did I puff my chest? All I've done is point out the Islanders futility over the past 20 years.

2) Maybe you should wait until the Islanders win another cup before you start to talk like they've won 3 already?

Well at least Isles fans know when to keep quiet and have their heads bowed when things aren't going well.

But right now you're a fan of an irrelevant team talking smack. It'll take a few years of this before you get used to the smell of brown paper bags and paper cuts around your eyelids before you figure it all out.

Don't worry you'll have plenty of time for that.

 

[Protest]

You see even those franchises went through tough times before they started winning. Isles fans believe that this team is in the 1st of many consecutive winning seasons, as the players and prospect pool is there to sustain them.

Ok? What's the difference between them and the Islanders? About a half dozen playoff appearances per team in the past decade or so and several cups. The key word there is believe. You believe this will happen. Maybe Isle fans should wait for it to happen before you start acting like it has already? Then again, that thought process is in line with most of the arguments you see from Isle fans regarding Tavares.

As for throwing the 1st punch Stonehands, not one of these Giroux v Tavares threads have been started by Isles fans, go back and look. All year Isles fans have been ridiculed (1st ten games, see you at half season as Buffalo gets two lottery picks, 20 games in, reality has not set in, 40 games in 1st in divison, Isles will miss playoffs, not make it out of first round, Tavares is not top 10, 20 , 30.....) Philly fans are living up to their reputation for sure here, as are some Rangers fan, and a couple Caps fans. We get it, but the reality is you guys are greatly underestimating how good the Isles team is and Tavares coming off an injury is just below a ppg, and due for a big 2nd half.

It's been shown already, multiple times, that the majority are made by neutral fans, and that Flyers/Islander fans have started roughly the same amount.

 

[CodeE]

But acting superior when the team you root for has been one of the laughing stocks of the league for the better part of 20 years is totally cool cause you're probably going to the playoffs? Honestly dude, it's sad that you're this cocky over the possibility of making the playoffs. There's a lot of teams in the league that expect to make the playoffs every year. Making the playoffs for them is the norm, not something to be proud of or celebrate.

1) When did I puff my chest? All I've done is point out the Islanders futility over the past 20 years.

2) Maybe you should wait until the Islanders win another cup before you start to talk like they've won 3 already?

Making the playoffs is one thing. Building a core that's good enough to win a Stanley Cup is something entirely different. I'm not content to choke every year in the playoffs, even if I'm consistently choking in the playoffs.

The goal is the Stanley Cup. Always has been, always will be. You're either the one team who wins it and raises the banner or you're one of the 29 teams who don't win it.

You'll probably twist this as me guaranteeing an Islanders cup or something, but all I need to do is look towards other teams who've rebuilt like the Islanders and earned that ultimate prize. Pittsburgh. Chicago. Los Angeles. You follow the rebuild model and cross your fingers that you can get hot at the right time.

I'll be happy to make the playoffs.

I'll be elated to win a playoff series.

I'll be a nervous wreck to make it to the Cup Finals.

I'll celebrate like I've never had in my life if I see my Islanders win the Stanley Cup.

 

[islesfan3913]

Which is exactly what happened in this thread. Islanders fans start throwing jabs and Flyers fans throw knockout punches in the form of stats.

Let me explain this simple enough for you to understand. Flyers fans are the ones who started this debate in previous threads and they are the ones who continue on and on and continue to mock and insult. They were throwing the jabs that you speak of and the knockout punch can be seen if you look at the standings.

You seem to think that Islander fans are the ones who think they're big shots which couldn't be further from the truth. Most of the Islander threads on the main board this season were started by non Islander fans. Most threads about players and comparisons were, again, started by non Islander fans (like this one and the Giroux vs Tavares poll I posted).

I really don't have much room to speak because the Isles have been bad for so long but it's a little tough to throw "knockout punches" when your team is at the bottom of the division and hasn't done anything of importance recently.

 

[Broad st phantom]

To me, there's really only one stat that I would consider a "knockout punch":

Flyers: 16-19-7: 39 points
Islanders: 28-13-1: 57 points

You missed a couple of seasons.

 

[Nei1ey*]

I'd say he's 8-10

My list:

Crosby
Malkin
Giroux
Getzlaf
Stamkos
Toews
Kane
MAF
Tavares
Voracek

 

[StoneHands]

Let me explain this simple enough for you to understand. Flyers fans are the ones who started this debate in previous threads and they are the ones who continue on and on and continue to mock and insult. They were throwing the jabs that you speak of and the knockout punch can be seen if you look at the standings.

You seem to think that Islander fans are the ones who think they're big shots which couldn't be further from the truth. Most of the Islander threads on the main board this season were started by non Islander fans. Most threads about players and comparisons were, again, started by non Islander fans (like this one and the Giroux vs Tavares poll I posted).

I really don't have much room to speak because the Isles have been bad for so long but it's a little tough to throw "knockout punches" when your team is at the bottom of the division and hasn't done anything of importance recently.

You keep talking about standings when we're talking about individual players. You're debating with yourself because no Flyers fan thinks the Flyers are better than the Islanders this year. Is Dan Carcillo better than Tavares?

 

[CodeE]

I'd say he's 8-10

My list:

Crosby
Malkin
Giroux
Getzlaf
Stamkos
Toews
Kane
MAF
Tavares
Voracek

Aren't there enough Flyers fans causing trouble already?

Do we really need a Penguins fan saying they have the two best players in the NHL AND the best goalie?

 

[Nolanitis]

Ok? What's the difference between them and the Islanders? About a half dozen playoff appearances per team in the past decade or so and several cups. The key word there is believe. You believe this will happen. Maybe Isle fans should wait for it to happen before you start acting like it has already? Then again, that thought process is in line with most of the arguments you see from Isle fans regarding Tavares.



It's been shown already, multiple times, that the majority are made by neutral fans, and that Flyers/Islander fans have started roughly the same amount.

That's the point, Isles fans are not starting it, they are defending their guy.

As for pounding our chests, hell if we have to act like the Isles are irrelevant again for the 30th consecutive year......

We are pumped beyond belief, sorry for having enthusiasm on a team I have habitually followed through hell and back. Yes the Isles have to win a Cup before they can prove they have made it, but really we cannot enjoy the ride too (even it takes a long time). Under that logic nobody could talk trash except the past 10 years of Cup winners.

Tavares will come through and finish strong and he will always have his supporters as well as the many detractors because so and so is better. Whatever, but don't expect Isles fans to accept the way hockey in general has made them the punching bag (and maybe rightfully so) of jokes over the past decade or two. This is clearly the best team on Long Island since 92-93, if not 78-84!

 

[islesfan3913]

You keep talking about standings when we're talking about individual players. You're debating with yourself because no Flyers fan thinks the Flyers are better than the Islanders this year. Is Dan Carcillo better than Tavares?

I do? Because this is the first time I ever even mentioned standings. And nice job completely avoiding the point of my post. You lost all credibility when you changed RMimagery's post so it would fit your argument. You have no room to speak.

 

[islesfan186]

I'd say he's 8-10

My list:

Crosby
Malkin
Giroux
Getzlaf
Stamkos
Toews
Kane
MAF
Tavares
Voracek

2 problems with this list....first is that MAF is not better than Lundqvist over his career. If ANY goalie should be on a top 10 players list, its Hank. And Voracek has his breakout year and now hes top 10 in the league? I respectfully disagree. And if the argument were to be that this list were to be for this season, where are guys like Rick Nash, Tyler Seguin and Pekka Rinne?

 

[blinds]

That's the point, Isles fans are not starting it, they are defending their guy.

As for pounding our chests, hell if we have to act like the Isles are irrelevant again for the 30th consecutive year......

We are pumped beyond belief, sorry for having enthusiasm on a team I have habitually followed through hell and back. Yes the Isles have to win a Cup before they can prove they have made it, but really we cannot enjoy the ride too (even it takes a long time). Under that logic nobody could talk trash except the past 10 years of Cup winners.

Tavares will come through and finish strong and he will always have his supporters as well as the many detractors because so and so is better. Whatever, but don't expect Isles fans to accept the way hockey in general has made them the punching bag (and maybe rightfully so) of jokes over the past decade or two. This is clearly the best team on Long Island since 92-93, if not 78-84!

Why do Islanders fans keep talking about how their team is doing? We get that you're excited you're finally doing well, but that's not what this thread is about.

This thread is about whether or not Tavares is a top 10 forward.

Right now, there's 5 forwards that are clearly better than him: Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Getzlaf and Giroux.

Then there's that next tier that Tavares could fit in anywhere that includes: Seguin, Toews, Ovechkin, Kessel, Backstrom, Kopitar, Datysuk, Hall, etc etc.

Personally, I'd put Tavares at about 10, so yes, for me he is a top 10 forward. Barely.

1. Crosby
2. Malkin
3. Stamkos
4. Giroux/Getzlaf
5. Getzlaf/Giroux
6. Seguin
7. Toews
8. Ovechkin
9. Backstrom
10. Tavares

Looking at it, it's hard not to give that last slot to Kopitar, but with the way he's been playing this season I'll give it to Tavares.

 

[Isles5513]

You missed a couple of seasons.

OK. You could focus on your past success and us Isles fans will focus on success this season, when it counts.

 

[Rehabguy]

Why do Islanders fans keep talking about how their team is doing? We get that you're excited you're finally doing well, but that's not what this thread is about.

This thread is about whether or not Tavares is a top 10 forward.

Right now, there's 5 forwards that are clearly better than him: Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Getzlaf and Giroux.

Then there's that next tier that Tavares could fit in anywhere that includes: Seguin, Toews, Ovechkin, Kessel, Backstrom, Kopitar, Datysuk, Hall, etc etc.

Personally, I'd put Tavares at about 10, so yes, for me he is a top 10 forward. Barely.

1. Crosby
2. Malkin
3. Stamkos
4. Giroux/Getzlaf
5. Getzlaf/Giroux
6. Seguin
7. Toews
8. Ovechkin
9. Backstrom
10. Tavares

Looking at it, it's hard not to give that last slot to Kopitar, but with the way he's been playing this season I'll give it to Tavares.

You made up that list yourself, but even you can see for yourself that everyone you listed leads a top ten team. All we're saying is if you take off the homer glasses for a second you might understand where we're coming from. For all of his scoring Giroux hasn't accomplished much this year.

 

[Poulin 0n My St1ck]

I'd say he's 8-10

My list:

Crosby
Malkin
Giroux
Getzlaf
Stamkos
Toews
Kane
MAF
Tavares
Voracek

You're criminally underrating MAF