Is Jagr the greatest European player of all time?

[EagleBelfour]

Hasek

3x Hart
6x Vezina

Hasek won the Hart in 1997 and 1998 only. Got nominated in 1999 though.

 

[PatrikBerglund]

Jonas Hoglund

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Jagr & Hasek 1a/1b for me.

 

[Ulysses31]

surprised ovechkin is getting no love

 

[newfy]

Interesting.... Jagr missed 4 season from the NHL yet still managed to be 2nd all time in points.. 4 years straigh Art Ross ... for Lidstrom to be above Jagr he would have to rate near or same level as Bobby Orr

I dont think he has to be at the same level as bobby orr for people to take him over Jagr, thats a huge stretch. But as far as dmen that are near Orr, some people have him number 2 all time, some third but theres not a great argument for worse than 4th really. So depends on your defintion of near same level I guess.

I think theres an argument for either to be number 1, but I think Hasek has either one of them beat. Its just harder to rate goalies against players.

I also think if I'm going on a cup run, who would I want (because these guys all have what I consider arguable reg. season resumes) and Jagr is last in the group. I would take a goalie like Hasek or have Lidstrom on the ice for 30 mins a game over Jagr. Outside ofJagrs best 2 or so playoff runs youre going to get similar production from Lidstrom in the playoffs.

With that being said theyre so close I kinda rank Lidstrom and Jagr at a tie for second depending on preference, Hasek was the most dominant to me and the best all time. Those Vezina trophies are no joke, he won those head to head with Roy and Brodeur and still won 6 to go with back to back hart trophies

 

[habdynasty]

Nick Lidström gets my vote.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Ovechkin - ? - Jagr
Lidstrom - Fetisov
Hasek

The margins between them are so narrow that it comes down mostly to personal preference and generational perspectives. None of them is way out ahead of the others. Personally, late-90s Hasek is maybe the most consistently dominant player I've ever seen and I'd have a very hard time ranking him anything but #1 in this group.

It's interesting that there really hasn't been THAT European center. Perhaps it would have been Forsberg in an alternate reality where he was much healthier.

 

[Shakey Rustie]

No love for Peter Stastny ?!

 

[MightySelanne8]

I cant decide between Hasek and Jagr, its a pick your poison type of situation. Lidström is #3, but he is few steps behind Jagr and Dominator.

 

[SaltNPeca]

1. Hasek
2. Jagr
3. Lidstrom

^
this

Hard to compare Goalies to skaters.
1998 Nagano team might not have won without Jags, but really had no chance without Hasek.
Lidstrom also has some incredible accolades including a hat-trick and Norris trophy at age 40 (although he was -2 that year?), never missing playoffs, and 4 cups.
Jagr gets the edge on Lidstrom for me because of his sheer # of points (coming in at #2 behind freakish GOAT Wayner).

 

[varano]

I like forsberg

 

[Firsov99]

Yes. He would have had a lot more points had he not "wasted" a few seasons in the KHL. And he is still number 2 in points all time.

 

[that is unfortunate]

Hasek for me, Jagr 2nd

 

[bluesfan94]

It goes without saying that Lidstrom is the 2nd best dman behind Orr.

As long as you ignore the other defensemen that have a good claim

 

[SuperScript29]

for Lidstrom to be above Jagr he would have to rate near or same level as Bobby Orr

That's like saying for Jagr to be above Lidstrom, he would have to be close to Gretzky, Lemiux, or Howe.

 

[mondo3]

No mentions of Kurri or Selanne yet

 

[Son Goku]

No mentions of Kurri or Selanne yet

Cause they aren't close to top 3

 

[DaveG]

Ovechkin - ? - Jagr
Lidstrom - Fetisov
Hasek

The margins between them are so narrow that it comes down mostly to personal preference and generational perspectives. None of them is way out ahead of the others. Personally, late-90s Hasek is maybe the most consistently dominant player I've ever seen and I'd have a very hard time ranking him anything but #1 in this group.

It's interesting that there really hasn't been THAT European center. Perhaps it would have been Forsberg in an alternate reality where he was much healthier.

OV - Stastny - Jagr
Lidstrom - Fetisov
Hasek

(have Stastny by a bit over Fedorov or Forsberg)

 

[Hivemind]

Ovechkin > Jagr

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Cause they aren't close to top 3

Kurri's selke level defense and playoff performance should raise his stock.

 

[Son Goku]

Kurri's selke level defense and playoff performance should raise his stock.

To a certain extent but when you put his body of work next to Jagr, Lidstrom, or Hasek's it isn't close at all. Kurri is a HOF all time great player but these three are simply on a different level.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Interesting.... Jagr missed 4 season from the NHL yet still managed to be 2nd all time in points.. 4 years straigh Art Ross ... for Lidstrom to be above Jagr he would have to rate near or same level as Bobby Orr

I didn't get to see Orr in his prime.
So, Lidstrom is the best defenseman I've seen. His game was much more complete than Jagr's.
IMO, he's easily better than Jagr.

 

[Phil68]

Guys, Jagr Dominated the league on terrible Pens team when Mario was gone.. None, not one of the Euro players dominated the league for such a period time hands down period.. Two for those talking about playoff runs, you need a team a good team to have a good playoff run.. Example McDavid.... Hasek didn't win a Cup until we was way past his prime. And Patrick Roy was better then Hasek. There aren't many people better than Jagr in NHL history period.. And no Ovi is not better than Jagr

 

[The Macho King]

Guys, Jagr Dominated the league on terrible Pens team when Mario was gone.. None, not one of the Euro players dominated the league for such a period time hands down period.. Two for those talking about playoff runs, you need a team a good team to have a good playoff run.. Example McDavid.... Hasek didn't win a Cup until we was way past his prime. And Patrick Roy was better then Hasek. There aren't many people better than Jagr in NHL history period.. And no Ovi is not better than Jagr

I'm convinced.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

It goes without saying that Lidstrom is the 2nd best dman behind Orr.

Harvey, Shore and Bourque say hi.