Is history repeating itself with Yzerman/Stamkos?

[MrSnrub]

Yzerman was largely viewed as a bad captain who'd never lead the Red Wings anywhere, that is until he actually did at the age of 32. Now he's the GM of the Tampa Bay Lightning, with a captain that's fast taking on the label of "biggest playoff underachiever" at 28 years old. Should the Lightning stay the course with multiple more Cup runs expected under the leadership of Steven Stamkos, or is there cause for concern with him as the leader?

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[Mr Tadakichi]

tbh, I think Tampa just needs to pace themselves better this year. They started out fantastic, but wore down as the season went on. Still have them as a top team this coming year.

Stamkos included, needs to save some energy for the playoffs.

 

[PenguinSpeed]

-Plenty cause for concern. Because after next year, Tampa needs to resign everybody including Kucherov who is going to command 9+ million. Tampa has in reality a 1 year window and then they are probably finished.

 

[Howie Hodge]

Is there cause for concern? We don't know the dynamics of that locker room well enough to judge.

Will he garner a reputation that is negative as a leader should they come up short the next couple years - yes, well at least in these circles.

Amazing how many of the people who judged Ovi the same way are now singing his praises.....

Rational hockey people will judge him on his whole body of work, not just off of this formula.

Edit - This is a 2018 post, not sure why the thread was recently bumped to 2019.

 

[Mr Tadakichi]

With Point and Sergachev still on ELC, I think they still have 2-3 years personally of an open window.

 

[Sky04]

He's only been captain for 3 years....

 

[CupsOverCash]

TB has been to the ECF in 4 times since 2011. This is mainly because of the teams that Yzerman has put together. I think as long as TB has him running this ship, they have a good shot to contend. As long as he has been our gm he has made a lot of great moves to avoid cap trouble and make trades to help the team contend. The team still has some good young talent coming up in Syracuse too to replace guys we can trade to save money. There is no guarantee that they will be as good as the other players that they replace but that is the hope.

As for Stamkos, I don’t think he is a bad captain. He is just not our teams best player. The way Point is emerging he may not even be our best center. Stamkos is what he is. Great shot, PP weapon, and I like his 2 way effort as a top C. I just think that he overthinks the game sometimes and tries to be Sidney Crosby when he is a guy who can score goals if he throws enough at the net. Sometimes he is on and makes the right plays but unfortunately it’s not the majority. I hope he becomes SY 2.0 lol. That would be nice.

 

[Cloned]

tbh, I think Tampa just needs to pace themselves better this year. They started out fantastic, but wore down as the season went on. Still have them as a top team this coming year.

Stamkos included, needs to save some energy for the playoffs.

They took the entire second half of the regular season off.

 

[PenguinSpeed]

TB has been to the ECF in 4 times since 2011. This is mainly because of the teams that Yzerman has put together. I think as long as TB has him running this ship, they have a good shot to contend. As long as he has been our gm he has made a lot of great moves to avoid cap trouble and make trades to help the team contend. The team still has some good young talent coming up in Syracuse too to replace guys we can trade to save money. There is no guarantee that they will be as good as the other players that they replace but that is the hope.

As for Stamkos, I don’t think he is a bad captain. He is just not our teams best player. The way Point is emerging he may not even be our best center. Stamkos is what he is. Great shot, PP weapon, and I like his 2 way effort as a top C. I just think that he overthinks the game sometimes and tries to be Sidney Crosby when he is a guy who can score goals if he throws enough at the net. Sometimes he is on and makes the right plays but unfortunately it’s not the majority. I hope he becomes SY 2.0 lol. That would be nice.

-I would like to see a realistic projection from Tampa as to who is going to resign after next year and for what money. Yzerman has done a pretty darn good job. But Im very wary looking at this. Id say the pressure is on Yzerman, not Stamkos.


Tampa Bay Lightning - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[The Macho King]

-I would like to see a realistic projection from Tampa as to who is going to resign after next year and for what money. Yzerman has done a pretty darn good job. But Im very wary looking at this. Id say the pressure is on Yzerman, not Stamkos.


Tampa Bay Lightning - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

I don't know why. We should go into 2019 offseason with plenty of capspace unless we make a big splash this year. As of today we have 44million spent into 2019. Figure a cap of 83 or so (and that's a very conservative estimate), so we have 39 million to fill out the roster.

Say 9.5 to Kucherov, Point will either be bridged at around 5 or given a long contract at 7, so we'll call it 16.5. That leaves 22.5 for the last 8 spots. Gourde gets 3? Stralman gets 3.5-4? Cal Foote makes the team on an ELC, Cernak maybe is on the team on a two-way deal. We have young guys like Katchouk, Raddysh, Cirelli, Stephens, and Joseph who will be fighting for bottom 9 spots on ELCs while letting some of the chaff go. We'll have one year left of Callahan's 5.8 which we can buy out or trade.

For like the millionth time in the past 5 seasons, rumors of Tampa Bay's cap crunch are vastly overstated. We keep bringing in great ELC talent that gives us a ton of flexibility, and other than Callahan we don't really have any *bad* contracts (some are less than ideal, but mainly due to their length - not the production of the player).

I don't think we'll make a move for Carlson. Only way I can see us being in cap hell is if Yzerman decides to swing for Karlsson - but some of the pieces going the other way will likely offset that somewhat.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Does anyone think Stamkos is a bad captain?

Funny enough it seems like Yzerman is taking the brunt of the criticism for Tampa like he did for the early 90s Red Wings. Clearly there need to be rumors of him being traded for an up and coming Russian, then that falling through and him winning a cup a few seasons later.

 

[GOilers88]

-Plenty cause for concern. Because after next year, Tampa needs to resign everybody including Kucherov who is going to command 9+ million. Tampa has in reality a 1 year window and then they are probably finished.

Bahaha.

Only on the internet...

 

[PenguinSpeed]

I don't know why. We should go into 2019 offseason with plenty of capspace unless we make a big splash this year. As of today we have 44million spent into 2019. Figure a cap of 83 or so (and that's a very conservative estimate), so we have 39 million to fill out the roster.

Say 9.5 to Kucherov, Point will either be bridged at around 5 or given a long contract at 7, so we'll call it 16.5. That leaves 22.5 for the last 8 spots. Gourde gets 3? Stralman gets 3.5-4? Cal Foote makes the team on an ELC, Cernak maybe is on the team on a two-way deal. We have young guys like Katchouk, Raddysh, Cirelli, Stephens, and Joseph who will be fighting for bottom 9 spots on ELCs while letting some of the chaff go. We'll have one year left of Callahan's 5.8 which we can buy out or trade.

For like the millionth time in the past 5 seasons, rumors of Tampa Bay's cap crunch are vastly overstated. We keep bringing in great ELC talent that gives us a ton of flexibility, and other than Callahan we don't really have any *bad* contracts (some are less than ideal, but mainly due to their length - not the production of the player).

I don't think we'll make a move for Carlson. Only way I can see us being in cap hell is if Yzerman decides to swing for Karlsson - but some of the pieces going the other way will likely offset that somewhat.

-Are you letting the 6 players on UFA and RFA this year walk, players like JT Miller? Because resigning any of those players are going to dig into your cap.

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

By all accounts Stamkos works extremely hard training every offseason. Sure his playoff history hasn't lived up to his regular seasons, but no doubt in the playoffs he gives his all. He'll be there to block shots and was even one of the most physical Lightning players this last playoffs. He leads the team by example. Those things all say more about him as a captain than whether or not he won the cup this year. Guess what? 30 other captains didn't win it this year either, doesn't make any of them bad captains.

 

[bobbyking]

Is there cause for concern? We don't know the dynamics of that locker room well enough to judge.

Will he garner a reputation that is negative as a leader should they come up short the next couple years - yes, well at least in these circles.

Amazing how many of the people who judged Ovi the same way are now singing his praises.....

Rational hockey people will judge him on his whole body of work, not just off of this formula.

ovi actually put up amazing po numbers regardless of what anyone says. Stamkos has never put up even one decent run. He's trash in the po

 

[PenguinSpeed]

By all accounts Stamkos works extremely hard training every offseason. Sure his playoff history hasn't lived up to his regular seasons, but no doubt in the playoffs he gives his all. He'll be there to block shots and was even one of the most physical Lightning players this last playoffs. He leads the team by example. Those things all say more about him as a captain than whether or not he won the cup this year. Guess what? 30 other captains didn't win it this year either, doesn't make any of them bad captains.

-Cant blame Stamkos. He's had blood clots and other injury problems. Silly to blame him imo. Its like Penguins fans blaming Letang because he came back from neck Surgery and didnt play like an All World player. Have to be realistic, Stamkos had a good year.

 

[Howie Hodge]

ovi actually put up amazing po numbers regardless of what anyone says. Stamkos has never put up even one decent run. He's trash in the po

True, and I agree with you.

However, I believe the OP is asking about perception. People's perception of Ovi, was that he couldn't get it done when needed.

Ovi got that perceptual monkey off his back.

It's like people's perception that The Celtics Bill Russell used to dominate Wilt Chamberlin. He didn't. It was the other four players on the court dominating Wilt's team mates that made the difference...

True fans of sport see the reality.

Edit - This is a 2018 post/thread. Not sure why it's being bumped to 2019 instead of creating an updated one...

 

[Goalie guy]

Lol haha haha , where are all theses people that thought Yzerman was a bad captain? You do know what he is still called here in Detroit right?

 

[Stephen]

I think Stamkos does a lot of things that you'd want to see from a leader. He'll occasionally fight, he throws big hits to try and swing the momentum and all that good stuff, but I'm just a little concerned that he isn't really the straw that stirs the drink aside from being the trigger man. His comfort level and effectiveness isn't when he has the puck, which concerns me somewhat because it limits his overall impact in different situations.

 

[DFC]

Honestly I think this is more about his (first) injury than his style of play. I don't really see a comparison to Yzerman here. Stamkos hasn't been the same player since the broken leg, at least not with any consistency. Yzerman made a conscious effort to change his game whereas Stamkos is just no longer capable of playing elite hockey for long stretches.

As a goal-scorer, he's more/less a PP specialist now. As a playmaker, he's definitely improved, but I'm not sure he'd put up big assist numbers without Kucherov.

There aren't really a lot of goals this year where you can say, "That doesn't happen without Stamkos making the play." You can say that about Point, Kucherov, even Gourde. But it's hard to say Stamkos makes his teammates better in a significant way, the way Point and Kucherov do.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I find history always repeats itself when it comes to the NHL. The only thing that doesn't repeat often is seeing a guy who played like Chris Pronger or was as amazing as Gretzky.

But I've lost faith in the Oilers... so it's very hard for me to even predict where McDavid takes Edmonton in his career.

 

[CupsOverCash]

-Are you letting the 6 players on UFA and RFA this year walk, players like JT Miller? Because resigning any of those players are going to dig into your cap.

Who Kunitz? Yes we will let him walk. We will probably re-sign Jt Miller although we are discussing him being a possible trade piece on the Lightning board. The other trade possibility is Tyler Johnson who has a ntc starting July 1st. Miller is a RFA and will be eligible for arbitration. Maybe he goes there and is rewarded 5 mil for 1-2 years. Nothing wrong with that because cap is going up and we have good young players to replace him if he walks in FA in a couple years. We have Sergachev and Foote to go with Hedman. That could mean we have solid D for a long time. That takes you a long way in this league. We found our goalie in Vasi who was up for a vezina at 23. Players like Kucherov and Point are still very young. SY is a wizard with the cap. This team isn’t going away anytime soon.

 

[57special]

True, and I agree with you.

However, I believe the OP is asking about perception. People's perception of Ovi, was that he couldn't get it done when needed.

Ovi got that perceptual monkey off his back.

It's like people's perception that The Celtics Bill Russell used to dominate Wilt Chamberlin. He didn't. It was the other four players on the court dominating Wilt's team mates that made the difference...

True fans of sport see the reality.

No one who is old enough to have watched them ever thought that Russell dominated Chamberlain. He just did a better job against him than others.

 

[The Flying Octopus]

Yzerman is fed up with him, doesn't really like him and is super frustrated w his lack of care for the playoffs.

Overheard yzerman and draper hitting golf balls at my club in Detroit Saturday PM. Yzerman giving him one more year, not hesistsnt to move him. The rest of the convo was about yzerman reshaping Tampa at the draft this year, draper will be in front row, come see him, etc, etc

Take for what it's worth.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Yzerman was largely viewed as a bad captain who'd never lead the Red Wings anywhere, that is until he actually did at the age of 32. Now he's the GM of the Tampa Bay Lightning, with a captain that's fast taking on the label of "biggest playoff underachiever" at 28 years old. Should the Lightning stay the course with multiple more Cup runs expected under the leadership of Steven Stamkos, or is there cause for concern with him as the leader?

Seeing as how they threw in the towel from the second half on, I don't see the point about " Pacing".