Is Expansion something the WHL would consider at this time?

[Fixed to Ruin]

I'll go ahead and eliminate Grande Prairie right now.

IMO you need 4 things to have a WHL franchise

1) Suitable fan support
2) Corporate support
3) Adequate Arena/ Seating Capacity of at least 5000
4) Good owner

Grande Prairie is a Slam Dunk for 1 and 2. A complete F for 3 and 4. Another negative is that we are a city in the middle of nowhere. 450km from Edmonton. Thousands of km from pretty much everyone else not in Alberta (75% of the league).

I think Grande Prairie will get a WHL team when teleportation is invented, Flying becomes cheap and afforable or the CHL tiers itself into multiple divisions like the NCAA.

 

[paul-laus]

I'll go ahead and eliminate Grande Prairie right now.

IMO you need 4 things to have a WHL franchise

1) Suitable fan support
2) Corporate support
3) Adequate Arena/ Seating Capacity of at least 5000
4) Good owner

Grande Prairie is a Slam Dunk for 1 and 2. A complete F for 3 and 4. Another negative is that we are a city in the middle of nowhere. 450km from Edmonton. Thousands of km from pretty much everyone else not in Alberta (75% of the league).

I think Grande Prairie will get a WHL team when teleportation is invented, Flying becomes cheap and afforable or the CHL tiers itself into multiple divisions like the NCAA.

Well at least you've got Carl's Jr. I suppose.....

 

[arsmaster*]

Bro, you basically repeated what I said in different sentences....

Problem is Nanaimo is damn close to other WHL and BCHL franchises that there isn't enough fans to go around (seriously how many BCHL franchises are close to Nanaimo?). Heat play in a great population area and there crowds are 90% empty. Of course being the Flames affiliate is definitely part of the problem, but enough to have a 90% empty area? Even though hockey is extremely popular in Vancouver and outside regions, the supply and demand is not good enough for another inner region junior team. Simple economics mate.

WHL on the Island:
Victoria

Junior A on the Island:
Nanaimo
Port Alberni
Cowichan
Victoria

Powell River (sunshine coast ie 2 ferries from Vancouver)

VIJHL (Junior B)
Nanaimo
Comox
Parksville
Campbell River

Kerry Park (Greater Victoria)
West Shore (Greater Victoria)
Victoria
Peninsula (Greater Victoria)
Saanich (Greater Victoria)

There are 6 teams in Greater Victoria.

Why you feel that another WHL team on the Island would do more harm doesn't make sense to me. Saves the league costs as you'd likely get at least two games on the Island every time you get there.

I currently live in Campbell River and meet up with my brother in law often (from Port Alberni) to travel to Victoria to watch the Royals, helps having a child in rep hockey that affords me other opportunities to travel down to Victoria. It's ~260km's one way. We make that drive because of our passion for the WHL. I have plenty of colleagues who make the trek for weeknight games from Nanaimo as well. There is definitely an appetite for more WHL on the Island. You shorten the distance from 260 to 150 (CR and PA) and you'll get a lot more. They've upped the speed limits on the island highway to 120km/hr most of the way. I can get from my house in CR to downtown Nanaimo is just over an hour. I would make that trip for the WHL anytime, I'd probably buy season tickets. I imagine you'd find Cowichan/Duncan residents more likely to make the trek to Nanaimo than they do to Victoria as well and this wouldn't really take too much away from the Royals since they're already doing quite well and compete with 6 other junior hockey teams in their area and do fine. The appetite is there for the highest level of Junior Hockey.

Putting another team in the Fraser Valley would help the other teams travel, but that market isn't really a hockey market, it's a Canucks market. It could work, but it might just turn into another relocation like the Wack.

 

[Rocko604]

Nanaimo would make sense, if they had the right arena. Still can't see it being an expansion team though. Relocation would be the only option. League is watered down enough.

Personally, I think Abbotsford is keeping a close eye on the AHL West movement in hopes of landing the Canucks farm team if the Western Division ever comes to fruition.

 

[arsmaster*]

Nanaimo would make sense, if they had the right arena. Still can't see it being an expansion team though. Relocation would be the only option. League is watered down enough.

Personally, I think Abbotsford is keeping a close eye on the AHL West movement in hopes of landing the Canucks farm team if the Western Division ever comes to fruition.

Agreed on relocation vs expansion.

I would hate the AHL to move to Abbotsford. The Canucks have a great thing going in Utica, which is firmly in the heartland of the AHL. More practice time and less bus time.

Having them closer isn't a benefit to the prospects IMO.

 

[Rocko604]

Logistically it would be a much worse situation than Utica, but money talks. If Francesco has a hand in it, and there are teams only as far away as California, the thoughts of filling that arena every night might sway ownership more than being able to practice the day after a game in Hershey.

 

[Beef03]

Re: Nanaimo

The league has basically said if they build a new arena, they will get the next available WHL club. There is no appetite for expansion. However, having worked in Nanaimo for the last three years, I can tell you, while there are some people who are big on the new arena bandwagon, there is little to no desire among most of the populace to sink millions into a new arena. They are too gun shy and already tapped after spending millions on a white elephant convention centre. It will take mostly private dollars to get it done, and I don't see anyone doing that.

Obviously though, the WHL wants another club on the Island and Nanaimo is the most logical spot, no other city could realistically support it through fans or businesses. But getting that club on the Island makes it much more economically sound for the WHL, especially when they are ferrying teams over on a bus, which costs an arm and a leg. Makes an easy weekend to kill three games, hitting Vancouver, Vic and Nanaimo while making much more efficient use of travel dollars.

Also having grown up in the Lloydminster area, it's a longstanding pipe dream to have the WHL there, but it will never happen. It has two things going for it, location between Edmonton and Saskatoon, and the oil patch. But the population base is too transient and there is no suitable building in place. Plus, there are many more suitable locations if a WHL club does become available for relocation. Lloyd is so far down on the league's priority list.

 

[NorthStar]

I wonder who is on the list for expansion? Would love to see a list of towns/cities that might be possible for expansion in the WHL??

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

Well at least you've got Carl's Jr. I suppose.....

Yeah. That's our restaurant choices here. Burgers, Burgers and a different kind of Burgers

 

[monkeywrench]

I'll go ahead and eliminate Grande Prairie right now.

IMO you need 4 things to have a WHL franchise

1) Suitable fan support
2) Corporate support
3) Adequate Arena/ Seating Capacity of at least 5000
4) Good owner

Grande Prairie is a Slam Dunk for 1 and 2. A complete F for 3 and 4. Another negative is that we are a city in the middle of nowhere. 450km from Edmonton. Thousands of km from pretty much everyone else not in Alberta (75% of the league).

I think Grande Prairie will get a WHL team when teleportation is invented, Flying becomes cheap and afforable or the CHL tiers itself into multiple divisions like the NCAA.

They're expanding the revolution center within the next couples years if the approvals are in place.
Also I can tell you that a group of local business men with good backing have talked to the whl

 

[Yung Rotini]

I wish Penticton could happen, they have the arena and the market, but being so close to Kelowna basically kills our chances.

 

[Hardyvan123]

WHL on the Island:
Victoria

Junior A on the Island:
Nanaimo
Port Alberni
Cowichan
Victoria

Powell River (sunshine coast ie 2 ferries from Vancouver)

VIJHL (Junior B)
Nanaimo
Comox
Parksville
Campbell River

Kerry Park (Greater Victoria)
West Shore (Greater Victoria)
Victoria
Peninsula (Greater Victoria)
Saanich (Greater Victoria)

There are 6 teams in Greater Victoria.

Why you feel that another WHL team on the Island would do more harm doesn't make sense to me. Saves the league costs as you'd likely get at least two games on the Island every time you get there.

I currently live in Campbell River and meet up with my brother in law often (from Port Alberni) to travel to Victoria to watch the Royals, helps having a child in rep hockey that affords me other opportunities to travel down to Victoria. It's ~260km's one way. We make that drive because of our passion for the WHL. I have plenty of colleagues who make the trek for weeknight games from Nanaimo as well. There is definitely an appetite for more WHL on the Island. You shorten the distance from 260 to 150 (CR and PA) and you'll get a lot more. They've upped the speed limits on the island highway to 120km/hr most of the way. I can get from my house in CR to downtown Nanaimo is just over an hour. I would make that trip for the WHL anytime, I'd probably buy season tickets. I imagine you'd find Cowichan/Duncan residents more likely to make the trek to Nanaimo than they do to Victoria as well and this wouldn't really take too much away from the Royals since they're already doing quite well and compete with 6 other junior hockey teams in their area and do fine. The appetite is there for the highest level of Junior Hockey.

Putting another team in the Fraser Valley would help the other teams travel, but that market isn't really a hockey market, it's a Canucks market. It could work, but it might just turn into another relocation like the Wack.

I think Nanamio could work but how many fans are as passionate as you are?

I'm planning on moving to the Black Creek area next year and am really passionate about hockey but driving down that Island Hwy going 120 km plus in the winter rain and bam an elk comes out, not enough corporate support mid island either would be my guess and the arena isn't great.

The valley would be better, arena, more people , corporate support ect.. but I hope it makes it to Nanamio I really do.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

They're expanding the revolution center within the next couples years if the approvals are in place.
Also I can tell you that a group of local business men with good backing have talked to the whl

Yes, i heard those same rumors. However, it doesn't alleviate the travel concerns. I don't think there's much of an appetite from the population to use tax dollars for a project such as expanding Revolution Center.

Don't get me wrong, if we get a team, i'll be first in line to buy season tickets. I just think that there are still significant challenges ahead.

 

[takehisheadoff]

Yes, i heard those same rumors. However, it doesn't alleviate the travel concerns. I don't think there's much of an appetite from the population to use tax dollars for a project such as expanding Revolution Center.

Don't get me wrong, if we get a team, i'll be first in line to buy season tickets. I just think that there are still significant challenges ahead.

I think next to Winnipeg Grande Prairie makes the most sense for a whl relocation (over epansion team). Even more so than Nanaimo. As for travel concerns look at Prince George. They are 527km to thier closest team Kamloops and 739km to Edmonton.(different division but still).
I have only driven through Grande Prairie a few times never spent time there or seen the arena but it would work. I mean if the AJHL can do it there surely the WHL could. I hear you on the population hating the tax dollars on fixing up the arena. There were many that complained here in Cranbrook when the city built the Rec Plex for the Ice.
For the fans there I hope you get a team. Sadly ours is going to probably move

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

Grande Prairie city counsel did not approve funding for the expansion of Revolution Place.

No WHL team coming here in the near term.

 

[SnipeTopCheese]

I really don't see the need for the WHL to expand but it would be nice to see a team come from the west out east, especially to Manitoba. Would make more sense to balance out both conferences and also give the Wheat Kings a team that's a little closer to home because the amount of travel that team does is insane.

 

[PCSPounder]

I really don't see the need for the WHL to expand but it would be nice to see a team come from the west out east, especially to Manitoba. Would make more sense to balance out both conferences and also give the Wheat Kings a team that's a little closer to home because the amount of travel that team does is insane.

We've talked about Winnipeg and that seems like a viable option. Given city populations in Manitoba, probably the only option.

Having said that...

Balance?

Um, the west has 10 and the east has 12. This argument amuses me. At least you can kind of project which teams will end up moving in the long term such that the travel partner question can be fulfilled. However, just a note: I don't expect all the small town teams to survive the coming wave of lawsuits.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

We've talked about Winnipeg and that seems like a viable option. Given city populations in Manitoba, probably the only option.

Having said that...

Balance?

Um, the west has 10 and the east has 12. This argument amuses me. At least you can kind of project which teams will end up moving in the long term such that the travel partner question can be fulfilled. However, just a note: I don't expect all the small town teams to survive the coming wave of lawsuits.

I don't expect the small teams Canada wide to survive period.

I expect soon we will have a Jr Hockey summit of some kind.

The elite athletes want to play in top programs with the most exposure.
The small town teams can't draft players that don't want to play for them.

This phenomenon isn't as prevalent in the WHL as it is in the Q. People quickly forget that MacKinnon didn't want to play in a small market. Angelo Esposito either.

There needs to be a conversation about the CHL as a whole. 60 teams in a country where the participation of young players in minor hockey is dropping is unsustainable. Teams playing in buildings with less than 5000 seats is also unsustainable.

 

[paul-laus]

Well, being from Winnipeg and keeping my ear to the ground on all things junior hockey, I can assure people that not only has the WHL-Winnipeg talk slowed..... it's completely non existent. Makes me think the WHL may be going in another direction with the Abbotsford market now available...

 

[SnipeTopCheese]

We've talked about Winnipeg and that seems like a viable option. Given city populations in Manitoba, probably the only option.

Having said that...

Balance?

Um, the west has 10 and the east has 12. This argument amuses me. At least you can kind of project which teams will end up moving in the long term such that the travel partner question can be fulfilled. However, just a note: I don't expect all the small town teams to survive the coming wave of lawsuits.

Sorry what I typed was a mistake what I meant to say was...If you could put another team into the Winnipeg area you could move Kootenay to the Western conference and if they than choose to expand in the west as well the conferences would be balanced.

 

[Halloween Jack]

As a Jets season ticket holder I was emailed a survey from True North asking about how much I would support a WHL team (how much I follow, would I follow more, would I go to games, buy mini packs, season tix etc...)
I think that was two years ago and it got me very excited, however that's the last I heard of it. I understand why junior hockey wouldn't have worked with the IHL/AHL, but now that that isn't a issue, it seems like the dub would be foolish not to get into Winnipeg ASAP.

 

[FanWHL]

Bro, you basically repeated what I said in different sentences....

Problem is Nanaimo is damn close to other WHL and BCHL franchises that there isn't enough fans to go around (seriously how many BCHL franchises are close to Nanaimo?). Heat play in a great population area and there crowds are 90% empty. Of course being the Flames affiliate is definitely part of the problem, but enough to have a 90% empty area? Even though hockey is extremely popular in Vancouver and outside regions, the supply and demand is not good enough for another inner region junior team. Simple economics mate.

You are very misinformed on the AHL Heat attendance situation. First The Abbotsford arena is about 7000 seat 5year old facility. The Heat play 5 year in Abbotsford and their first / best year attendance average was 3800 and the last being a little over 3000 (AHL attendance stats). The first 2 years Manitoba Moose vs Heat games were sold out. My basic highschool math tells me that's about 50%. Not 90% empty. Some of the other issues contributing to the demise of the Heat. Next closes team San Antonio Texas. Which if you look at a north american map is due south of Winnipeg. Teams coming were playing back to back games around weekends. For fans a little too much Groundhog Day. Next Calgary Flames had a sweet heart deal where by the city of Abbotsford was on the hook for team financial looses. Turned out too much for Tax Payers to swollow. AHL experiment failed. The Vancouver Canuck were interested but wanted the same deal Calgary got because of the travel. I'm an Abbotsford resident and was a Heat season ticket holder and found that deal hard to swollow. Cancuck still have 2 & 1/2 years in Utica. Between that and the travel the Canucks wont be coming to Abbotsford any time soon. Also the residence of Abbotsford elected to mayor the man who spearheaded ousting the Heat. The Kootney Ice or Prince Albert Raiders have seen declining attendance for several years and I believe Abbotsford could easily support either of them as an Abbotsford or Fraser Valley team better than Chilliwack as Abbotsford is more centrally located . As for another team on the island that Ferry is not cheap or getting cheaper. And Winnipeg?? That's alot of travel. Winnipeg - Victoria is a 3 day drive at best and then throw in winter weather (the Coquihalla need I say more)

 

[Regina Pat]

What about Lloydminister. Great for travel and had many NHLers come from there.

Lloydminster would be the smallest market in the Dub (to go along with the other small market Sask teams) and already has the Bobcats in the AJHL.

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

Ideally, if I had magic hockey powers, I would split the WHL in half. A prairie league and a BC/US league.

It would cut down on travel incredibly. Small teams would find it easier on the pocketbook. Families don't have to go a thousand miles to see there kid when drafted by a team on the other side of the league. You could also do away with the host team garbage at the Mem Cup and have a tournament where no one gets a free pass.

I would also introduce inter league play, if the kids can drive for hours and hours, they can get on a plane for a couple weekends every season.

How cool would the Vancouver Giants playing the London Knights be?

Or Halifax and Brandon?

Or Val D'or against Sudbury or Windsor?

 

[S E P H]

You are very misinformed on the AHL Heat attendance situation. First The Abbotsford arena is about 7000 seat 5year old facility. The Heat play 5 year in Abbotsford and their first / best year attendance average was 3800 and the last being a little over 3000 (AHL attendance stats). The first 2 years Manitoba Moose vs Heat games were sold out. My basic highschool math tells me that's about 50%. Not 90% empty. Some of the other issues contributing to the demise of the Heat. Next closes team San Antonio Texas. Which if you look at a north american map is due south of Winnipeg. Teams coming were playing back to back games around weekends. For fans a little too much Groundhog Day. Next Calgary Flames had a sweet heart deal where by the city of Abbotsford was on the hook for team financial looses. Turned out too much for Tax Payers to swollow. AHL experiment failed. The Vancouver Canuck were interested but wanted the same deal Calgary got because of the travel. I'm an Abbotsford resident and was a Heat season ticket holder and found that deal hard to swollow. Cancuck still have 2 & 1/2 years in Utica. Between that and the travel the Canucks wont be coming to Abbotsford any time soon. Also the residence of Abbotsford elected to mayor the man who spearheaded ousting the Heat. The Kootney Ice or Prince Albert Raiders have seen declining attendance for several years and I believe Abbotsford could easily support either of them as an Abbotsford or Fraser Valley team better than Chilliwack as Abbotsford is more centrally located . As for another team on the island that Ferry is not cheap or getting cheaper. And Winnipeg?? That's alot of travel. Winnipeg - Victoria is a 3 day drive at best and then throw in winter weather (the Coquihalla need I say more)

Can't believe you made an account to respond to my post. You took my post too literal, of course I know they do not sustain 90% empty arena. But my whole point is that majority of the Abbotsford area are Canucks fans who are not too fond with other Western Canadian teams and the Blackhawks (for obvious reasons). No way would I want to watch the Flames system play if I was a Canucks fan. Lets take for explain, the Avs and Lake Erie. Lake Erie is based in Cleveland and majority of the fans around that area are Blue Jacket fans first and foremost. But since Blue Jackets and Avs have never been in the same division or even conference for that matter, there is not hate between any team or fanbase. In 2012-13 season, Lake Erie was 3rd in the league in attendance while your beloved Abbotsford was 2nd to last. Abbotsford didn't work due to the sole reason that no Canuck would want to watch Flames. If Abbotsford was an affiliate with the likes of the Phoenix Coyotes (during their Pacific division days), Nashville Predators, or Columbus Blue Jackets, they would probably have much more than an average of 40% filled attendance.

You can say whatever to defend Abbotsford, but they failed and common sense tells us why.