Is Expansion something the WHL would consider at this time?

Rocko604

Sports will break your heart.
Apr 29, 2009
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Vancouver, BC
Can't believe you made an account to respond to my post. :laugh: You took my post too literal, of course I know they do not sustain 90% empty arena. But my whole point is that majority of the Abbotsford area are Canucks fans who are not too fond with other Western Canadian teams and the Blackhawks (for obvious reasons). No way would I want to watch the Flames system play if I was a Canucks fan. Lets take for explain, the Avs and Lake Erie. Lake Erie is based in Cleveland and majority of the fans around that area are Blue Jacket fans first and foremost. But since Blue Jackets and Avs have never been in the same division or even conference for that matter, there is not hate between any team or fanbase. In 2012-13 season, Lake Erie was 3rd in the league in attendance while your beloved Abbotsford was 2nd to last. Abbotsford didn't work due to the sole reason that no Canuck would want to watch Flames. If Abbotsford was an affiliate with the likes of the Phoenix Coyotes (during their Pacific division days), Nashville Predators, or Columbus Blue Jackets, they would probably have much more than an average of 40% filled attendance.

You can say whatever to defend Abbotsford, but they failed and common sense tells us why.

No, the Heat failed because it's not the Canucks. Could be any other affiliate (minus their rivals of course) and they would still fail. Abbotsford is Canucks territory. They drew large crowds to the streets after playoff wins in 2011. Cleveland might work for the Avs, but Cleveland is not an NHL city and is still two hours away from Columbus. I liken that to Vancouver once being a Triple-A affiliate for the Angels. We supported them very well even though you could say most fans in the city are either Jays or Mariners fans.

There's been zero argument around here as to why the Heat failed: They weren't the Canucks affiliate. And even if it were the affiliate of a non-rival, I think you would have only seen about 500-750 more seats filled.
 

paul-laus

Registered User
Jun 20, 2007
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I'm wondering if anybody has heard any rumblings on Abbotsford, Grand Prairie, Fort Mac, Nanaimo or anything else?
 
Feb 7, 2012
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Seattle
About a Month Ago, our local media had a chat with the WHL Commissioner:

Two of these go hand in hand perhaps:

The stability of the Kootenay Ice franchise

Kootenay has suffered some pretty low attendance figures in their small home town of Cranbrook, British Columbia. The low attendance comes despite icing competitive teams and high-end players year in and year out. Robison has stated over the past couple of weeks that the current attendance levels aren't good enough.

"We continue to be very concerned about the attendance levels and we monitor very closely with the ownership group," he said. "We're concerned about the viability of that franchise on a long term basis if the attendance continues at the level it is now and we need to see significant improvement next season."

Are Wenatchee and Boise possible homes for the WHL

Whether it's through relocation or expansion, there have been whispers that both Wenatchee and Boise would be interested in bringing the WHL to their cities. Robison says that the league’s top priority right now is to operate in the cities they’re currently in but he is aware of the two U.S. cities.

"Both these communities have great facilities and are on our radar screen without question," he said. "But we have other priorities, strategically, that we would like to accomplish."

http://mynorthwest.com/745/2741619/Checking-in-with-WHL-Commissioner-Ron-Robison
 

Rocko604

Sports will break your heart.
Apr 29, 2009
8,562
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Vancouver, BC
I'm wondering if anybody has heard any rumblings on Abbotsford, Grand Prairie, Fort Mac, Nanaimo or anything else?

Abbotsford will likely be holding out to see how/where the new Pacific AHL division develops.

GP, Fort Mac are too isolated with new suitable arenas. Nanaimo does not and will not have a suitable arena in the foreseeable future.
 
Feb 7, 2012
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Abbotsford will likely be holding out to see how/where the new Pacific AHL division develops.

GP, Fort Mac are too isolated with new suitable arenas. Nanaimo does not and will not have a suitable arena in the foreseeable future.

Seattle AHL squad in Abbotsford?
 

Belamorte

Feed Your Head
Nov 14, 2003
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Nanaimo are so stuck behind the times. They really should get a new arena. It would be a shoe-in for a WHL team as well as get flow-over from concerts and events from Victoria from bands/events that want to squeeze a bit more revenue out of the pricey trip to the Island.
 

PCSPounder

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Apr 12, 2012
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The Drinnan blog recently mentioned that the league thinks Prince Albert needs a new arena, hence they might be "in play" for a move down the line.

What I'm reading between the lines is that the league really wants to be in Winnipeg and Abbotsford. The Jets end up bringing their AHL team into the same arena. Abbotsford... I wonder if the league is lined up to bring Kootenay there, EXCEPT I wonder if Abbotsford is requiring some sort of guarantees in a lease that the WHL doesn't want to touch. After that, there's no obvious choices. Most cities don't have the proper arena, and the ones that do are a bit outside the preferred bus range.

Wenatchee is finally going to get their BCHL bid... per nearly everyone in the ether.

Boise... I've touched on that before. I wonder how that got asked in Seattle. I've touched on this on several boards here, I don't think the US Division teams want them, and that's who would have to want them. I'll make a guess that Boise interests are indeed concerned about the future of the ECHL out west and have probably reached out to the WHL. Glad I moved away and glad I don't own the Steelheads.

EDIT... to add a thought. Kootenay to Abbotsford would even out the conferences. On further observation, is that what the league wants? It just came to mind that the league may prefer an even number of teams in each conference over equality in conferences. Reason: maximizes the number of weekends where teams don't have to have busses headed halfway across the continent. It's a guess. If this is the case... well, they still probably see Prince Albert to Winnipeg as an endgame, but Kootenay becomes a rather interesting issue.
 
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tank44

Registered User
Feb 1, 2012
639
163
Seattle, WA
Wenatchee is finally going to get their BCHL bid... per nearly everyone in the ether.

Boise... I've touched on that before. I wonder how that got asked in Seattle. I've touched on this on several boards here, I don't think the US Division teams want them, and that's who would have to want them. I'll make a guess that Boise interests are indeed concerned about the future of the ECHL out west and have probably reached out to the WHL. Glad I moved away and glad I don't own the Steelheads.

Boise would be an outlier like Prince George. By car it's about 4 hrs from Tri-Cities, 6 hours from Portland & Spokane and 7 hours to Seattle & Everett. Boise would make more sense as part of the new AHL west than WHL.

If/when Seattle & Vegas gets NHL teams, I could see Boise & Salt Lake as their AHL cities. OR If the Canucks move their AHL team to Abbotsford then maybe one of the WHL US cities (Everett?) gets Seattle's AHL team so that Abbotsford would have a hosting travel partner in the AHL. Then Everett's WHL franchise could move to one of the other prospective cities.
 
Feb 7, 2012
4,639
2,874
Seattle
The Drinnan blog recently mentioned that the league thinks Prince Albert needs a new arena, hence they might be "in play" for a move down the line.

What I'm reading between the lines is that the league really wants to be in Winnipeg and Abbotsford. The Jets end up bringing their AHL team into the same arena. Abbotsford... I wonder if the league is lined up to bring Kootenay there, EXCEPT I wonder if Abbotsford is requiring some sort of guarantees in a lease that the WHL doesn't want to touch. After that, there's no obvious choices. Most cities don't have the proper arena, and the ones that do are a bit outside the preferred bus range.

Wenatchee is finally going to get their BCHL bid... per nearly everyone in the ether.

Boise... I've touched on that before. I wonder how that got asked in Seattle. I've touched on this on several boards here, I don't think the US Division teams want them, and that's who would have to want them. I'll make a guess that Boise interests are indeed concerned about the future of the ECHL out west and have probably reached out to the WHL. Glad I moved away and glad I don't own the Steelheads.

EDIT... to add a thought. Kootenay to Abbotsford would even out the conferences. On further observation, is that what the league wants? It just came to mind that the league may prefer an even number of teams in each conference over equality in conferences. Reason: maximizes the number of weekends where teams don't have to have busses headed halfway across the continent. It's a guess. If this is the case... well, they still probably see Prince Albert to Winnipeg as an endgame, but Kootenay becomes a rather interesting issue.

Can Winniepeg have both a AHL and a WHL team?
 
Feb 7, 2012
4,639
2,874
Seattle
Boise would be an outlier like Prince George. By car it's about 4 hrs from Tri-Cities, 6 hours from Portland & Spokane and 7 hours to Seattle & Everett. Boise would make more sense as part of the new AHL west than WHL.

If/when Seattle & Vegas gets NHL teams, I could see Boise & Salt Lake as their AHL cities. OR If the Canucks move their AHL team to Abbotsford then maybe one of the WHL US cities (Everett?) gets Seattle's AHL team so that Abbotsford would have a hosting travel partner in the AHL. Then Everett's WHL franchise could move to one of the other prospective cities.

Yeah..that drive from Seattle to Boise is a LOOOONG one.
 

Fixed to Ruin

Come wit it now!
Feb 28, 2007
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Ideally, if I had magic hockey powers, I would split the WHL in half. A prairie league and a BC/US league.

It would cut down on travel incredibly. Small teams would find it easier on the pocketbook. Families don't have to go a thousand miles to see there kid when drafted by a team on the other side of the league. You could also do away with the host team garbage at the Mem Cup and have a tournament where no one gets a free pass.

I would also introduce inter league play, if the kids can drive for hours and hours, they can get on a plane for a couple weekends every season.

How cool would the Vancouver Giants playing the London Knights be?

Or Halifax and Brandon?

Or Val D'or against Sudbury or Windsor?

Sometimes I wonder if the CHL should tier itself into one major league and 3 smaller feeder leagues. In other words, the CHL would be the top 20-24 franchises in Canada that could support high enough ticket prices for the additional costs of travel by air and pay the players something like 30-50k instead of a scholarship for players ages 18-22. Then a smaller top level league for ages 16-19. If you can make a national level team then go play CIS, get an education.

Then merge the other franchises with the top Jr A franchises and play on a more provincial/regional level where less travel is necessary.

I know there's a ton of holes in my hypothetical plan but the current CHL configuration has major issues as well.

For example, players not wanting to play in smaller franchises, Players too good for the CHL but not good enough for the NHL (ie Niederreiter, Scheifele, Draisaitl) (is this the best for their route for development?). The gap between the large center wealthy teams vs the small town regional team. 16 yr olds playing against 20 yr olds, ect.
 
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Feb 7, 2012
4,639
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Seattle
Sometimes I wonder if the CHL should tier itself into one major league and 3 smaller feeder leagues. In other words, the CHL would be the top 20-24 franchises in Canada that could support high enough ticket prices for the additional costs of travel by air and pay the players something like 30-50k instead of a scholarship for players ages 18-22. Then a smaller top level league for ages 16-19. If you can make a national level team then go play CIS, get an education.

Then merge the other franchises with the top Jr A franchises and play on a more provincial/regional level where less travel is necessary.

I know there's a ton of holes in my hypothetical plan but the current CHL configuration has major issues as well.

For example, players not wanting to play in smaller franchises, Players too good for the CHL but not good enough for the NHL (ie Niederreiter, Scheifele, Draisaitl) (is this the best for their route for development?). The gap between the large center wealthy teams vs the small town regional team. 16 yr olds playing against 20 yr olds, ect.


I don't think that will be popular with anyone that follows the WHL
 

PCSPounder

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Apr 12, 2012
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Yeah..that drive from Seattle to Boise is a LOOOONG one.

ShoWare to Prince George is longer, and not nearly the number of freeway miles that theoretically shorten the trip.

The problem with Boise: Eastern Oregon will have that weekend or two during the winter where I-84 shuts down. Curious terrain to say the least. All the Northwest teams apparently dread that notion.
 

PCSPounder

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Apr 12, 2012
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If/when Seattle & Vegas gets NHL teams, I could see Boise & Salt Lake as their AHL cities. OR If the Canucks move their AHL team to Abbotsford then maybe one of the WHL US cities (Everett?) gets Seattle's AHL team so that Abbotsford would have a hosting travel partner in the AHL. Then Everett's WHL franchise could move to one of the other prospective cities.

Why Boise and Salt Lake when it can easily be your second scenario?

I'm one who doesn't think the WHL will survive in the US if Seattle gets NHL expansion and Portland gets the Coyotes, and I've gone so far as to say just the Seattle part of the equation can trigger that. If the Canucks are in Abbotsford and NHL Seattle takes Everett, consider Portland HAVING to go NHL and taking a city down the Willamette Valley for their AHL team. THEN we can talk about Calgary to Boise and Edmonton to Spokane, or vice versa.

Mind you, no guarantees that Paul Allen will bite simply because Seattle gets the NHL. And everyone will fight over Spokane. I'm also counting on some sort of Boise-style development in Eugene based on Eugene getting the IAAF championships in 2021 (along with the U of Oregon hockey rumors), et cetera, ad infinitum...

...and none of which I care to bet on until someone not just breaks ground, but finishes an arena in the greater Puget Sound area, that red tide-infested menagerie to the north. It's the Northwest we're talking about. Nearly anything can happen here.
 

tank44

Registered User
Feb 1, 2012
639
163
Seattle, WA
ShoWare to Prince George is longer, and not nearly the number of freeway miles that theoretically shorten the trip.
Showare to Prince George is not the same as Boise since Boise would be in the same division meaning more games against them. Boise to Prince George would happen just as much and man that'd be an awful trip.
Why Boise and Salt Lake when it can easily be your second scenario?

I'm one who doesn't think the WHL will survive in the US if Seattle gets NHL expansion and Portland gets the Coyotes, and I've gone so far as to say just the Seattle part of the equation can trigger that. If the Canucks are in Abbotsford and NHL Seattle takes Everett, consider Portland HAVING to go NHL and taking a city down the Willamette Valley for their AHL team. THEN we can talk about Calgary to Boise and Edmonton to Spokane, or vice versa.
..... It's the Northwest we're talking about. Nearly anything can happen here.

If it's just Seattle NHL to interrupt WHL US footprint then it can coexist. Dominoes are falling for the AHL West and so far it is a California bus league so going to Salt Lake, Boise or any WHL arena will require flights and more $. I was suggesting Boise & Salt Lake as AHL teams since they both do decent in ECHL and could still somewhat fit with the AHL Cal teams. Also those two are not part of the WHL US footprint. Salt Lake is a major airport hub thus easy to get to. When dealing with Boise or Spokane, flight volumes & connections become a concern but manageable.

If Seattle AND Portland get NHL teams and the AHL brings two more teams to the PNW then there could be issues as you note. That again could lead to Boise & Salt Lake as AHL options for regionalism rather than Eugene/other OR city. Maybe they take Spokane & Tri-Cities for their AHL cities leaving only the I-5 WHL cities remaining (if at all).

In the end, there is way too much uncertainty in the PNW over the next 4 years for the WHL to consider any US expansion. Stick to Nanaimo, Chilliwack & Northern Alberta if anything is to be done on that front for possibilities.
 
Feb 7, 2012
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Seattle
ShoWare to Prince George is longer, and not nearly the number of freeway miles that theoretically shorten the trip.

The problem with Boise: Eastern Oregon will have that weekend or two during the winter where I-84 shuts down. Curious terrain to say the least. All the Northwest teams apparently dread that notion.

I've never done the drive to Prince George, I'll take your word for it!
 

phillipsj89

Registered User
Jan 9, 2012
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Canada
I've never done the drive to Prince George, I'll take your word for it!

Portland's booster club did it this year. That was a lot of fun. The Winterhawks smoked the Cougars but it was awesome talking to their fans. By all accounts, they had a fantastic time up here.
 

Rocko604

Sports will break your heart.
Apr 29, 2009
8,562
273
Vancouver, BC
Seattle AHL squad in Abbotsford?

Canucks, once they're agreement is up with Utica. Abbotsford already learned their lesson of doing business with a Canucks rival. No way they'll go down that road again.

Speaking of Boise, if Seattle were to get an NHL team (and I hope they do) I think Boise could be a landing spot for the farm team, assuming CenturyLink Arena is suitable for the AHL. And with the Moose returning to Winnipeg, "isolation" can't be an excuse. Their closest team will be Milwuakee at over 750 miles away. Boise to Stockton is 600. Abbotsford, hypothetically is 614.
 
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Belamorte

Feed Your Head
Nov 14, 2003
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Boy, that escalated quickly.

Nanaimo, do not do what Kelowna did and build an arena that only holds 5k (well Kelownas is just over 6k but the point still stands). Make sure the arena is expandable. Prospera here (Kelowna) is too small for any 'real' concerts, it suits junior hockey ok but is still too small and could use an addition. It should have been built at this size but expandable to at least 8 or 10k in the future.
 

PCSPounder

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Apr 12, 2012
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Nanaimo, do not do what Kelowna did and build an arena that only holds 5k (well Kelownas is just over 6k but the point still stands). Make sure the arena is expandable. Prospera here (Kelowna) is too small for any 'real' concerts, it suits junior hockey ok but is still too small and could use an addition. It should have been built at this size but expandable to at least 8 or 10k in the future.

Nanaimo is not Kelowna. I know Nanaimo is growing, but not to the degree Kelowna is...

...and I just finished the big part of my BC + Banff Women's World Cup trip. Drove through both places. Never mind Kelowna... I remember West Kelowna being a speck 10 years ago compared to now.

Yet I argue Kelowna probably didn't underbuild. Ticket prices go up and shut some people out. Get back to me in another 5 years and we'll talk more than just a bigger arena.

Nanaimo... 5,000 is about right for the probable 30-year life of the arena.
 
Feb 7, 2012
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Seattle
Looks like it would be relocation if anything, and focusing on Kootenay:

http://www.nanaimodailynews.com/sports/nanaimo-a-very-attractive-market-for-whl-franchise-1.1976500
Nanaimo will be given "full consideration" to be home to a Western Hockey League franchise if another team relocates and if a proposed new multiplex is indeed built, league commissioner Ron Robison said Monday.

"It's a very attractive market," Robison said in a phone interview with the Daily News.

"It sounds like there's some real good initial work that's being done, and it's a very exciting project for the community of Nanaimo. We've indicated all along that in the event a facility that meets the WHL standard, if it's available in Nanaimo, the market becomes a real interest to us."
 

n00bxQb

Registered User
Jul 26, 2010
3,178
524
WHL hockey in Nanaimo would be great.

Watching hockey in Victoria, as much as I enjoy it, is a pain for anyone north of the Malahat, especially when the weather isn't good. You never know when there's going to be an accident on the Malahat and you're going to be stuck for hours.
 

PCSPounder

Stadium Groupie
Apr 12, 2012
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The Outskirts of Nutria Nanny
Now that I've read the Nanaimo article more closely...

Brady confirmed Monday that the Howard Johnson group looking to build the complex is unlikely to be interested in purchasing and relocating an existing team - that means a current owner would need to relocate a team, or sell to someone who is willing to, for Nanaimo to have a team.

What?

Am I missing a Canadian trend here? That's pretty much avoided in America these days. Private owner of arena collecting rent rather than actually owning the team? That practically doesn't happen anymore.
 

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