Discussion in 'Polls - (hockey-related only)' started by Llamamoto, Jun 7, 2021.
Reminds me of the conversations people had around Dion Phaneuf
I guess it's semantics.. I don't think he'll be nominated for the Norris so I wouldn't say he is in contention for it. I totally agree he'll get some votes (like Klefbom did in 2016) but he won't finish ahead of Makar, Hedman and Fox (I'm guessing).
Brodie is a good example but can you tell me who the number 2 is in Colorado? Is Nurse far above that guys level?
If he went to Tampa, where would he slot? Is Hedman the 2 now?
What if Klef comes back 100% (unlikely but trying to make a point here)
Heck, the Habs.. is he pushing Weber and Petry to 2 and 3?
Is he pushing Pietrangelo to number in 2 in Las Vegas?
He joins the Bruins.. McAvoy is now the 2?
If he makes Team Canada.. is he higher than a 6 on it? What about the US team? Would he make it all? Sweden?
Which is my point.. I keep seeing scenarios and he always ends up at 2 once the teams become contenders.
Is he pushing Pietrangelo to number in 2 in Las Vegas?
Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of his and have been defending him to Oiler's fans for longer than I care to remember. But I just can't declare him a true 1 just yet. That last true 1 we had was Pronger and I don't think he's at the level yet.
I'd argue that Tipp lost his mind in an elimination match and cut his bench down to 4 guys (including Russel who hadn't played much) and playing Nurse over 60 minutes was ridiculous. The team that won that game didn't need to do that. That isn't a testament to how good Nurse more than a painful reminder that Tipp does not do well in playoffs and that our D depth is weak.
Good for Nurse though, almost ties Seth Jones record and had a kid the next day! The guy is amazing.
What I'm referring to.. here is the Jet's D deployment in that Triple OT
Range is from 41 to 21 minutes. Difference of 20 minutes between top guy and bottom guy.
here is Tipp and the Oil:
Top guy is 62 minutes and bottom guy is 10... for a difference of 52 minutes between top guy and bottom guy.
That's either on Tipp for Deployment or Holland for not giving Tipp enough pieces that he likes.
But what about the fact that he was a top 10 defenseman this year? Are there less than 10 #1 defensemen?
Because (checks current numbers) 49 people don't know the answer to this question but answered as if they did and got it wrong.
Soooo...you are using "superstar defenseman" and "number one defenseman" interchangeably?
Maybe.. when I read 'legit 1' I thin there are about 8 of those guys in the NHL.
When I read top 30... that is different to me. I agree he was OUR 1D this year.
I think I gave lots of examples where Nurse wouldn't be a 1 today.
FTR.. I don't think Hronek is a tippy top 1 either but he led the team in scoring and minutes as well. But he's definitely in the top 30 just like Nurse. Nurse, Hronek, Makar and Hedman. Sure.. that all seems the same.
I guess I see a big gap between top 30 and being a top guy.
I'm a huge Nurse fan (and bigger Hronek ) fan for the record.
My issue with this is that is like me saying that, as an example, Mark Scheifele or Elias Petersson are not number 1 centres because they aren't "top guys" like McDavid, Matthews, Draisaitl and Crosby. It's not true. A player can be a legitimate #1 defenseman without being an elite, top 5 defenseman. and to believe so doesn't mean that we automatically accept that every teams top defenseman is a legitimate #1 defenseman. Really, these definitions are all arbitrary, but I think guys like Makar and Hedman can be desribed as both superstars and #1 defensemen, but calling both Hedman and Nurse a #1 defenseman doesn't imply that they are the exact same caliber player.
He's a 1D but championship teams often have atleast 2 of those. He's an absolute horse who had to cover up for Barrie at ES all year.
You are right... it's all semantics.
In your Centre example I'd argue the NHL has about 15 elite 1C's... and our Oil have 2 of them. I think there are more elite C's than D. So yes I'd consider Scheifelle and Petersson elite C's.
In both cases though, I wouldn't say they are elite C's because there are not 29 C's who are better than them.
Go back to our decade of darkness and try and convince me that our top d and top C were elite back then.
But I agree, semantics.
However you put it.. I don't believe there are 30 number 1 D in the NHL. And, as said below me, most winning teams have more than 1.
As an Oilers fan. I don't think so quite yet.
His defensive metrics were terrible this season, among some of the worst in the league. He made up for it with some of the best 5v5 offence provided by a defender this season and one of the best defenseman goal scorers. But this being his first season of elite play combined with the very questionable defense probably puts this as a no for now.
Maybe Tyson Barrie sucks so badly that he's tanking Nurse's numbers as well? Idk, Nurse has never had particularly great defensive numbers. We'll wait and see for next year.
He's still definitely a top pairing D and should be one of the core pieces of this team moving forward. But I'd like to see some improvement on the defensive end while keeping up his level of offence before anointing him as a #1, a status I think only applies to around 20 players around the league.
Top4 in ice time by games, Top 3 in minutes played, lead is team in Sh minutes, the only * possible for why this would be a question would be the PP minutes, 67 defenceman with 25 games or more played more PP time a game than him, one of them with the Oilers.
But still, that a lot of minutes for someone that would not be a number one D.
Things change quick, eh?
Oil fans were ready to dump the guy last year, maybe it was emotional overreaction after losing to the rebuilding Blackhawks in the play ins. I don't see it with Nurse. Good player but closer to a 2nd pairing guy than a #1 for me. Happy to be wrong....nothing agiainst the player/team
This year yes. But I'd want to see him do it again in case this is just a 1 off
A #2 D or a 2nd pairing guy?
Name 62 defensemen better than him
I think he'd be a very good #2.
<----- Brent Seabrook - like.
Yes he certainly was this year. I hope it wasn't an outlier and he can continue to play to this level moving forward.
Definitely a top 31/32 guy in the league, no question. Really hard for anyone to prove otherwise in all reality. Especially after those playoffs where when he left the ice, Edmonton looked exposed and weak.
Now, top 10/15 guy? Probably not yet. Has the tools though.
He was this season. Very consistent both offensively and defensively. Consistency has always been his main issue but he was really solid all season long on both sides of the puck. As far as I am concerned this was the first time any Oiler D-man played like a number 1 D-man since Pronger. Hopefully he can continue to play at that level.
pretty much this and really surprised that the poll is this close.
Can the no people really name 30 better Dmen in the NHL for last season or even the upcoming season?
I highly doubt it.
Based on this season yes
but then again, the North right ?
wouldn't be on the Vancouver Canucks. an easy no for me.
He took big steps this year for sure. They say it takes longer for defensmen so it's possible he finally hit that corner and is now taking off. He might not be a #1 D man but he took the steps as mentioned and is certainly going to get that responsibility or at least the chance. Barrie is more than likely gone and who knows about Klefbom and if he can even get back to form. He's had a lot of injuries with his latest really putting his future in doubt. We will see.
If he makes it.
Doughty, Weber, Makar, Chabot, Letang, Girard, Parayko, Pietrangelo, Theodore, Ekblad and Hamilton are all guys who could easily make the team over him.
I know this is just trolling but outside of Vegas our division is going to be weaker next year than it was this year
Separate names with a comma.