Is Crosby still a top 5 center?

[Mrb1p]

Playoffs are always a small sample, but if playoff performance is uses to bump Crosby In a tier above his regular season, the past two playoffs work as an argument against that.

Crosby just hit a brick wall during those playoffs.

Carey Price.

 

[HisNoodliness]

I think he's 6th but closer to those behind him than ahead
1 McDavid
2 MacKinnon
-----------
3 Draisaitl
4 Matthews
5 Barkov
------------
6 Crosby
Point, Stamkos, Tavares, Eichel, Scheifele, Backstrom, I'm sure I'm forgetting a few that belong in this tier with Crosby.

 

[Gurglesons]

Crosby just hit a brick wall during those playoffs.

Jack Johnson

*Corrected.

 

[Gurglesons]

I am always surprised by how many people actually believe that Crosby has an edge over his peers in the playoffs.
He has 4 goals in 25 SCF games, including 1 goal in his last 12 SCF games. That is nowhere close to a playoff warrior.
All he has been doing was padding his PO stats by beating up bubble teams in the 1st round. Take that away, and he is under ppg in PO.
And recently even his 1st round performance has been bad.
MacK, McD, Drai, Point have all been better recently come PO time.

If you also removed his points against Washington and Philadelphia in the regular season he is basically a 3C.

 

[Mrb1p]

*Corrected.

Well JJ is very bad for sure but he didnt exactly shutdown Sid in 4 games.

 

[Gurglesons]

Well JJ is very bad for sure but he didnt exactly shutdown Sid in 4 games.

Is scoring 2 goals and an assist in 4 games getting “shutdown”?

The Pens weren’t shutdown by Price they were destroyed by their third pairing which was on the ice for like 75% of the goals against.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

It only works against the argument that Crosbys level of play will suddenly increase to far greater heights in the playoffs. You have recent top centers like Brayden Point having extremely string playoff runs, but it doesn't bump them to a different tier from their regular season performance.

Crosby is a great playoff performer but at this point I dont think theres a reasonable argument that hes any better In playoffs than In regular season.

For the record, I'm not even arguing about whether or not his playoff performances give him a bump. I'm just taking exception to this idea that he's had two weak playoffs in a row by making it sound like the Montreal series was bad like the Islanders series. It wasn't. He was "good" (not great) versus Montreal. It's only the Islanders series where you could say he was bad.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I am always surprised by how many people actually believe that Crosby has an edge over his peers in the playoffs.
He has 4 goals in 25 SCF games, including 1 goal in his last 12 SCF games. That is nowhere close to a playoff warrior.
All he has been doing was padding his PO stats by beating up bubble teams in the 1st round. Take that away, and he is under ppg in PO.
And recently even his 1st round performance has been bad.
MacK, McD, Drai, Point have all been better recently come PO time.

Criticizes Crosby's playoff production in the Stanley Cup finals by saying he pads his stats in early rounds, then goes on to list 3 out of 4 players who haven't even made the Cup finals and have padded their stats in early rounds as being better playoff performers.

Sounds reasonable.

 

[Mrb1p]

Is scoring 2 goals and an assist in 4 games getting “shutdown”?

The Pens weren’t shutdown by Price they were destroyed by their third pairing which was on the ice for like 75% of the goals against.

The bottom pair isnt the reason why the pens scored 2 goals a game lol

 

[Zuluss]

Criticizes Crosby's playoff production in the Stanley Cup finals by saying he pads his stats in early rounds, then goes on to list 3 out of 4 players who haven't even made the Cup finals and have padded their stats in early rounds as being better playoff performers.

Sounds reasonable.

I would give them the benefit of doubt. I have not seen them fold in later rounds, so maybe they won't.
Crosby did, and quite a few times.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I would give them the benefit of doubt. I have not seen them fold in later rounds, so maybe they won't.
Crosby did, and quite a few times.

3rd and 4th round production:
2008 playoffs - 13 points in 11 games
2009 playoffs - 10 points in 11 games
2016 playoffs - 9 points in 13 games
2017 playoffs - 13 points in 13 games

The only time you could argue his production was sub-par (for him) was 2016. The rest he was right around a point per game.

"Quite a few times" indeed.

The funny part is the people who continue to push this narrative all happen to be fans of a certain player. Can't imagine why they'd want to downplay Crosby.

 

[Zuluss]

3rd and 4th round production:
2008 playoffs - 13 points in 11 games
2009 playoffs - 10 points in 11 games
2016 playoffs - 9 points in 13 games
2017 playoffs - 13 points in 13 games

The only time you could argue his production was sub-par (for him) was 2016. The rest he was right around a point per game.

... and the reason we are taking only Cup runs and ignoring things like 0 points in 4 games in ECF against Boston is...?
And even then, 2009 lumps together beating up overachieving CAR and posting 3 points in 7 games against DET, and 1.0 ppg in 2017 masks 1 goal and 3 primary points in 7 SCF games.

Most importantly, where is the edge over the peers people are talking about? Crosby is not Bossy nor Richard. In PO, he has not done anything individually we would look at and say "oh, that's a tall order for anyone to beat".

 

[Caps8112]

Mcd, drai, mack. Matthews and barkov play in weaker divisions. Those top 3 are good but playoff Crosby is also very good. It's tough, none of the top 3 have won anything but a couple of rounds.

 

[KidLine93]

Mcd, drai, mack. Matthews and barkov play in weaker divisions. Those top 3 are good but playoff Crosby is also very good. It's tough, none of the top 3 have won anything but a couple of rounds.

Its almost like teams as a whole win series, not individuals

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Its almost like teams as a whole win series, not individuals

I watched the 2009 playoffs. Two players won series, the rest were along for the ride.

 

[KidLine93]

I watched the 2009 playoffs. Two players won series, the rest were along for the ride.

You're right, Malkin and Fleury were phenomenal. It was unfortunate Crosby didn't feel like playing against Detroit but his teammates picked up the slack.

 

[supsens]

... and the reason we are taking only Cup runs and ignoring things like 0 points in 4 games in ECF against Boston is...?
And even then, 2009 lumps together beating up overachieving CAR and posting 3 points in 7 games against DET, and 1.0 ppg in 2017 masks 1 goal and 3 primary points in 7 SCF games.

Most importantly, where is the edge over the peers people are talking about? Crosby is not Bossy nor Richard. In PO, he has not done anything individually we would look at and say "oh, that's a tall order for anyone to beat".

Did he ever even win a cup and be the highest scorer on his team? Or outright lead the playoffs in scoring? The generational best ever talk is iffy. 2 scoring tittles an tied for the playoff scoring lead once? 3rd greatest ever.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

You're right, Malkin and Fleury were phenomenal. It was unfortunate Crosby didn't feel like playing against Detroit but his teammates picked up the slack.

You must be lost, this is HF Boards, your bridge is the other way.

 

[nowhereman]

You're right, Malkin and Fleury were phenomenal. It was unfortunate Crosby didn't feel like playing against Detroit but his teammates picked up the slack.

Pittsburgh doesn't even get out of the second round, if Crosby doesn't take that team on his shoulders in the first two series. The guy had 31 points in a playoff run in 2009, where the 3rd and 4th leading scorers on the Pens were Rusland Fedetenko and a 38 year old Bill Guerin, and you're shit-talking him? Try harder.

 

[Gurglesons]

The bottom pair isnt the reason why the pens scored 2 goals a game lol

Pens scored 2,3 and 4 goals prior to being shut out.

 

[sdf]

He is #1 corner

 

[The Grim Reaper]

You're right, Malkin and Fleury were phenomenal. It was unfortunate Crosby didn't feel like playing against Detroit but his teammates picked up the slack.

McDavid, Draisaitl, MacKinnon, and Matthews have not faced anything in the same universe defensively as a team comprised of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Hossa, and Lidstrom in the playoffs...

Also, speed is a good strategy until a player like Kronwall catches you.

 

[BB06]

Without Empty net points, he's not even PPG. I find it amusing that anytime Crosby's productions fall the Selke level defence follows after. Fringe top 10 Centre right now and free falling.

 

[KidLine93]

Pittsburgh doesn't even get out of the second round, if Crosby doesn't take that team on his shoulders in the first two series. The guy had 31 points in a playoff run in 2009, where the 3rd and 4th leading scorers on the Pens were Rusland Fedetenko and a 38 year old Bill Guerin, and you're shit-talking him? Try harder.

so youre saying he didnt need his team to help him win those cups? As I stated earlier? because he sure didn't do much to knock off the wings. Its almost like he had a solid team contributing. Guys like Max Talbot outproduced him in the finals series. Don't get your panties in a bunch because I proved the original poster wrong

 

[KidLine93]

You must be lost, this is HF Boards, your bridge is the other way.

great response. I proved the post to be wrong and this is all you had to come back with. exactly what I thought

 

[KidLine93]

McDavid, Draisaitl, MacKinnon, and Matthews have not faced anything in the same universe defensively as a team comprised of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Hossa, and Lidstrom in the playoffs...

Also, speed is a good strategy until a player like Kronwall catches you.

Malkin scored at a ridiculous pace vs them. Max talbot outscored crosby that series. And not sure why you're bringing up injuries when Crosby has had way more injury trouble than anyone else brought up in this thread. Are you suggesting its better to be a slow player? My point was it takes a team to win. Their response was it only took 2 players. I provided examples how crosby didn't do any thing in the finals and multiple other players took that series away from Detroit.