tacogeoff
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you forgot to mention Ovi also had a 13 goal lead on 2nd place along with the 6 point lead in 07-08
Is catching Gretzky in goals enough for Ovechkin to surpass Crosby?
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you forgot to mention Ovi also had a 13 goal lead on 2nd place along with the 6 point lead in 07-08
Nathaniel Skywalker
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Nathaniel Skywalker
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No doubt it was the best goal scoring season so far this century but a 6 point lead is alot less than a 17 point one.
Also Crosby was an island in that 14 season, Malkin missed 22 games, Letang played less than half the season.
Sidney Crosby - Fantasy Hockey Game Logs, Advanced Stats and more - Frozen Tools
dr robbie
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The premise of this question is pretty dumb in my opinion. We already know both of these players and 80+% of their careers. Why would hitting a specific number all the sudden boost one guy up or drop one guy down 5-10ish spots on the all time list? Besides, we are completely ignoring the back-half to Crosby's career. Does he win another Cup in this time frame? Does he retire tomorrow? Or Ovi for that matter? Way too many variables to make an educated vote.
On this note, I do think we are going to look back and realize how spoiled we were to have both of these guys at the same time and having this type of success. The NHL tried so hard to shove their rivalry down our throats, but they actually lived up to the hype. Their careers will be one of the major highlights to look back upon in the NHL.
On this note, I do think we are going to look back and realize how spoiled we were to have both of these guys at the same time and having this type of success. The NHL tried so hard to shove their rivalry down our throats, but they actually lived up to the hype. Their careers will be one of the major highlights to look back upon in the NHL.
Thenameless
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Don't you think Lemieux's 92-93 is more dominant? Played 24 games less than Lafontaine, and still beat him handily. That is dominance.
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There is no need to rely on a volatile statistic such as second in points for one isolated season. There were no significant changes to NHL scoring from '08 to '17 so comparing across seasons is a far superior baseline.
Several of the top point accumulators were injured in 2014 - Kane, Stamkos, Malkin, Tavares. Crosby had no control over that. You are hanging your hat on sleight of hand.
Malkin's '12, '08, and '09, Ovechkin's '08, '09, '10, Kane's '16, Kucherov's '19, McDavid's '19, McDavid's '18, Stamkos's '12, and yes Crosby's '10 - these are all objectively superior to Crosby's 14.
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That Pens team had no problem making the playoffs without Crosby in 2012. In fact they posted their best goal differential during Crosby's career in a season where he barely played.
The Capitals were bottom feeders outside of Ovie in 2008.
To claim that's advantage Ovechkin is delusional.
Why bring up 2012 when the season in question was 2014?
Smokescreen and noise perhaps?
tacogeoff
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I'm saying that his feat of leading the league in points along a 13 goal lead is more impressive to me personally than a 17 point lead on overall points.
filinski77
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Kessel only has 2 top-10 goal finishes in his career: 5th and 6th
He really hasn't been an amazing sniper over the course of his career.
Nathaniel Skywalker
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Nathaniel Skywalker
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For the people saying it would make ovechkin better than crosby, what if he falls 30 goals short?
WingsMJN2965
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Empoleon8771
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I feel like people try to hard to force a comparison between Crosby and Ovechkin, because they're vastly different players and how you decide who the "better" player is totally depends on how you judge players. That's the big reason I don't get why this debate is still happening, the debate at this point is "the way I evaluate players says Crosby is better than Ovechkin" or the other way around. How do you even value goals, hits and individual trophies vs assists, 2-way play and team trophies? It's just arbitrary, it's totally dependent on the person.
Let's make an analogy, who was better: Bobby Hull or Stan Mikita? How you answer that question is 100% dependent on what you value in players, which doesn't say who the "better" player was. I don't think Ovechkin breaking the goal scoring record adds anything for him, because he's already widely regarded as the best goal scorer of all time. It doesn't change that comparing 2 fundamentally different players is really, really difficult to do.
Let's make an analogy, who was better: Bobby Hull or Stan Mikita? How you answer that question is 100% dependent on what you value in players, which doesn't say who the "better" player was. I don't think Ovechkin breaking the goal scoring record adds anything for him, because he's already widely regarded as the best goal scorer of all time. It doesn't change that comparing 2 fundamentally different players is really, really difficult to do.
Erik Alfredsson
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Crosby is one of the greatest playoff performers of all time, and not only is slightly better offensively than Ovechkin in the regular season, but he's also miles better defensively.
It isn't close, at all. Crosby is clearly the superior player and always will be.
It isn't close, at all. Crosby is clearly the superior player and always will be.
No, no he is not. Ovechkin is one of the best two way players in the league. Ovechkin played the best hockey of his career last playoffs
Erik Alfredsson
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If you value peak so heavily then you need to take into consideration the 2010-11 season where Crosby was on pace for a 132 point, 64 goal season.
Erik Alfredsson
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Lmao, Ovechkin being good defensively is a pretty recent turn of events. He was pretty lackluster defensively for majority of his career. Crosby has been great defensively for pretty much his entire career, and has been in Selke conversation in recent conversations. For reference, Crosby was 4th in Selke voting last year, Ovechkin didn't receive a vote. Year before that; Crosby finished 9th, Ovechkin didn't receive a vote.
Crosby: 4th (2018-19), 9th (2017-18), 10th (2016-17), 7th (2015-16), 19th (2014-15), 18th (2013-14), 15th (2012-13), No votes (2011-12), No votes (2010-11), 30th (2009-19), No votes (2008-09), No votes (2007-08), No votes (2006-07), No votes (2005-06)
Ovechkin: No votes (2018-19), No votes (2017-18), No votes (2016-17), No votes (2015-16), No votes (2014-15), No votes (2013-14), No votes (2012-13), No votes (2011-12), No votes (2010-11), 28th (2009-10), 50th (2008-09), 30th (2007-08), No votes (2006-07), No votes (2005-06)
So Crosby's highest Selke finish was last year at 4th, and Ovechkin's is 28th, with a single first place vote (lmao). But yeah, they're clearly equal defensively.
Please, Crosby is miles better defensively than Ovechkin, and it's not close.
Crosby gets Selke votes because of the respect he has in the NHL. He is the most respected player in the league, and they are campaigning to give Sid a Selke as a life achievement award.
Just look at Backstrom who is a better defensive player than Crosby and how Crosby is beating him amongst voters by a lot. It's obvious why and only takes a few seconds to realize what is going on.
Empoleon8771
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Oh geez, we're back on the "Ovi is good defensively" idea? Like there's nothing analytically that supports the idea, because his defensive analytics are flat out bad, so I need something a lot stronger than "I think Ovechkin is good defensively" to believe that.
tacogeoff
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tacogeoff
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