Is Buffalo's Roster Better Than Montreal ?

[Kennedys]

Habs > Sabres. But this is meaningless since anything > Sabres

 

[HabsMD97]

Interesting. They are pretty tight, IMO with very different strengths and weaknesses across their rosters. Based strictly on how I’d expect them to perform this year:

Eichel > Domi
Skinner > Tatar
Reinhart ~ Gallagher
Johansson ~ Drouin
Rodrigues < Danault
Vesey ~ Armia
Sheary ~ Byron
Mittelstadt ~ Kotkaniemi
Larsson < Lehkonen
Girgensons ~ Weal
Okposo > Cousins
Thompson < Poehling
Sobotka ~ Weise

Dahlin < Weber
Ristolainen < Petry
Montour > Mete
McCabe > Kulak
Miller > Chiarot
Bogosian > Folin
Scandella > Reilly
Jokiharju > Juulsen

Hutton < Price
Ullmark > Kincaid
Hammond > Lindgren

Looks like Buffalo has more talent on the first line, Montreal better depth up front, while the opposite is true on the blueline. Dahlin is huge wildcard for the Sabres. Price is clearly the best goalie. The Sabres have better backups.

All IMO, of course, but it’s pretty hard to argue one roster is significantly better than the other.

Not sure how you work the extra forwards in, but this might be a Stanley Cup winning team this year

Skinner Eichel Gallagher
Tatar Domi Reinhart
Johansson Danault ?
Lehkonen Larsson ?

Dahlin Weber
Petry Ristolainen
McCabe Montour

Price

the bolded just aren't true. I would never trade, Kotka, byron and Armia for the 3 you're comparing them to especially since the MTL trio bring a defensive aspect to their game that the BUF isn't even close to. And their offensive is either almost as good/as good/or better. Girgensons brings close to nothing to the table, will Weal impressed during his stint in MTL. Mete and Montour are a wash while Kulak is severely underrated.

 

[Hostile Offer]

It's not exactly a big bragging point but I see it a lot. Leafs severely underachieved last year in 2019. They played at a 17th place finish pace, out of the playoffs. It's part of the reason Leaf fans are calling for Babcock's head.

So what you're saying is... the Leafs aren't that good of a team after all? Babcock is still there the last time I checked.

 

[Satanphonehome]

the bolded just aren't true. I would never trade, Kotka, byron and Armia for the 3 you're comparing them to especially since the MTL trio bring a defensive aspect to their game that the BUF isn't even close to. And their offensive is either almost as good/as good/or better. Girgensons brings close to nothing to the table, will Weal impressed during his stint in MTL. Mete and Montour are a wash while Kulak is severely underrated.

You are certainly welcome to disagree with my opinion, but don’t you think it’s a little much to call mine “not true” (while implying yours is “true”)?

For example, Jordan Weal is 27 and has played 169 NHL games in nine professional seasons and never scored more than 8 goals. He’s “impressed” but Girgensons - who has 420 NHL games at 25 and a 15-goal season under his belt - “brings close to nothing”

I’m sure there are a few others outside of Montreal who would rather have Mete than Montour, but how many? One in five observers? One in 10?

Is there a chance your Habs-coloured glasses might be showing?

 

[lauraP]

Hey your the one who said ten teams.

Rather than pick out one name, you ignore the rest.

Absolutely in a few years Eichel and Dahlin will be part of a great under 25 core but right now those teams are all better than Buffalo in regards to the talent of their under 25s. The weakest of the teams named have Pasta who's had what 3 straight point per game seasons and had some crazy like 1.3pts per game last year. Also had McAvoy who's already a legit top pairing Dman. Nobody doubts Dahlin's potential nor his ability to meet it but as of today, Boston's youth core is stronger.

Doesn't even count the fact that Vancouver was on your list when they had EP, Boeser, and Horvat build a great under 23 core (which Hughes added to boot) that'll carry them for the next decade.

No, this isn't Buffalo hate. It's realist thinking. Dahlin and Eichel are great pieces to build around, absolutely positively cornerstones to a franchise, but after that the under 25 core just isn't as you advertised it.

I doubt you could find 10 percent of this community that would agree with you that Buffalo has a better unser 25 core than Vancouver.

Reinhart Mittlestadt Risto Jokiharju mountor pilut oloffson UPL Cozens Johnson, do your research.

 

[King Mapes]

i think on paper buffalo is a decent bit better than montreal but they just have a losing culture, worse coaching and no goaltending

This. On paper they are better but they have that losing mentality which is where you need some vets. Only reason this is close is the difference in nets.

 

[Snippit]

Reinhart > Gallagher

 

[Tage2Tuch]

This. On paper they are better but they have that losing mentality which is where you need some vets. Only reason this is close is the difference in nets.

The biggest things people are ripping buffalo apart on is goaltending and coaching, both of which could be drastically different considering the circumstances. I get it though, totally I mean that’s Montreal’s biggest advantage as it would
Seem but people also have to consider these circumstances to be fair for BUF:

-new coach (anything’s possible, look at Berube, apparently Ralph is a great motivator and was the only coach to get “anything” out of that terrible oilers team)

-Ullmark played one season. One. He has always had high vakue as a prospect and even now, went to two ahl all star games and played behind an awful defense last year that has definitely Improved. Passing judgment on him when a new coach could Implement a better defensive system with an improved d, and more experience as well as team familiarity would all allow it possible for him to hit his stride. Even as it was last year he only suffered only his second regulation loss at the mark of 12-15 games? He definitely had weak spots but I wouldn’t count on him being a lock to be some weak goalie. It’s unbelievable how “sure” people are on something after seeing it so few times.

-Hutton has proved he can be an excellent back up, in the final year of his contract, will
Be motivated to hit one final payday you’d think going forward, also has an improved defense and perhaps a better coached system in place. (Can’t be much worse)

-oh the then there’s one of the best goalie prospects in the world getting to play in front of a new system with an improved defense.

So these things guarantee nothing, if anything it’s less likely these things happen after one year but people should really consider that these things are POSSIBLE rather then going goaltending and coaching MTL AINERRRCCCCCC!!!!!


Not saying you are but that’s one good thing the game has produced in this cap era is surprises.

Last years regular season produced plenty first round was the wildest in history.

Habs > Sabres. But this is meaningless since anything > Sabres

Except toronto when they cross the border.

 

[Just Linda]

Reinhart Mittlestadt Risto Jokiharju mountor pilut oloffson UPL Cozens Johnson, do your research.

Risto has the worst +/- in the league. Generally he's been great in the o zone but horrible in his own end. He's not really anything special unless he's put in roles to make him look better.

I watched every game Mittelstatd played at U of Minn, all 34 games. He'll be a nice 50pt player for sure, a solid 2c

Jokiharu is a solid prospect for sure.

Montour is a second line d, likely near his peak.

Pilut has a whopping 1 career NHL goal. He's 23 already. He's not really going to be a difference maker.

Olofson is 24 already and hasn't broken out yet. I get it, he had a great last year in Sweden but hasn't proven anything at the NHL level.

I don't access goalie prospects well, they are so hit and miss that I have up years ago. So few are as close to guarantee as Carter Hart seems to be. Most teams seen to have a UPL type (edit: not most but at least 10 do)

Cozens is nice but he just got drafted. He's not part of your team next year yet.

Couldn't tell you a thing about Johnson, again you just drafted him, he won't see NHL time for years if at all.

If it sounds like I'm being harsh on these guys it's because I'm comparing them to the standard you set for them. Nearly every team has a list of under 25 guys who round out their roster. Buffalo isn't unique in that way.

 

[thadd]

On paper yes, easily. But they've gottta do something before we can believe in them.

 

[GOALOFSSON]

Risto has the worst +/- in the league. Generally he's been great in the o zone but horrible in his own end. He's not really anything special unless he's put in roles to make him look better.

I watched every game Mittelstatd played at U of Minn, all 34 games. He'll be a nice 50pt player for sure, a solid 2c

Jokiharu is a solid prospect for sure.

Montour is a second line d, likely near his peak.

Pilut has a whopping 1 career NHL goal. He's 23 already. He's not really going to be a difference maker.

Olofson is 24 already and hasn't broken out yet. I get it, he had a great last year in Sweden but hasn't proven anything at the NHL level.

I don't access goalie prospects well, they are so hit and miss that I have up years ago. So few are as close to guarantee as Carter Hart seems to be. Most teams seen to have a UPL type (edit: not most but at least 10 do)

Cozens is nice but he just got drafted. He's not part of your team next year yet.

Couldn't tell you a thing about Johnson, again you just drafted him, he won't see NHL time for years if at all.

If it sounds like I'm being harsh on these guys it's because I'm comparing them to the standard you set for them. Nearly every team has a list of under 25 guys who round out their roster. Buffalo isn't unique in that way.

Risto had the worst +/-, I wouldn't expect him to do it again (probably not bottom 5 or 10 either). Depending on his usage it could be a nonissue, or we might trade him for someone. He has been playing major minutes on a bad team. I'm expecting a better Risto this season.

Mitts could be a fine 50pt 2C this season, yes. It will be interesting and exciting to see how much better he becomes after that.

Pilut has looked good and could provide good depth. We'll see how he plays this year.

Olofsson broke out at 22. Hasn't proven anything in the NHL yet, fair, but his shot is undeniable. Also have to see how he does this year, there is some real nice potential there.

I'm pretty high on UPL with the gold and earning the Tilson award as a goaltender/import.


Buffalo isn't unique in their solid prospect pool/under 25 players and depth (even though clearly most of that is underrated, I'd put our U25 up against anyone for the longterm future and the Habs prospects certainly aren't lightyears better), it's that we have Eichel and Dahlin on top of it.

Speaking of Dahlin, he'll be getting even more recognition this season.

As for the thread, this season it'll be close, Sabres could have a wide variety of outcomes. After this season I take the Sabres though.

 

[GOALOFSSON]

Eichel would be Montreal's best player for sure, but including Dahlin is laughable

Also hockey is more than a two player game. Montreal doesn't have a McDavid or Draisaitl, still better than Edmonton.

If not this year then the one after.

What in the world... are people here serious? OP isn't asking who is gonna be better down the road or who has the most valuable players. It's exclusively who is gonna be better next year in the standings. The answer is Montreal. Buffalo's depth is absolute crap, goaltending leaves a lot to be desired and coaching is worse. On d, they are extremely unproven and it depends entirely on how much Dahlin can improve next year, but he is still 19 so you can't expect him to be a game changer next year.

Weber and Petry are still better than any D on their roster and Mete and Kulak (as always) are extremely underrated. Montour, risto, bogosian aren't anything special, bogo and risto in particular just aren't good. who has the better future is a better discussion, but next year, Montreal will be better without any doubt, unless they are riddled with injuries. People commenting on how Eichel, skinner, and reinhart are so good and MTL can't compete, well guess what they were all on buffalo last year and each had a career year, yet the team picked 7th overall. Their center depth after Eichel also isn't good, they don't have a 2C.

Top players are important, but you need depth in today's league which MTL has in spades. FYI I don't think either team makes the playoffs, but Buffalo will certainly finish lower.

More people sleeping on Dahlin. Depth also isn't anywhere near as bad as last year.

Skinner didn't really have a career year so much as he reached his best for the 3rd time, Eichel and Reinhart are just continuing development. I expect all 3 to improve from last year and have another "career year".

Hell, more so then them, Dahlin and Mitts will have career years. Technically Oloffson, Pilut as well. While all of that will most likely happen, you can put my vote in for Ristolainen having his best all around season yet.

 

[King Mapes]

The biggest things people are ripping buffalo apart on is goaltending and coaching, both of which could be drastically different considering the circumstances. I get it though, totally I mean that’s Montreal’s biggest advantage as it would
Seem but people also have to consider these circumstances to be fair for BUF:

-new coach (anything’s possible, look at Berube, apparently Ralph is a great motivator and was the only coach to get “anything” out of that terrible oilers team)

-Ullmark played one season. One. He has always had high vakue as a prospect and even now, went to two ahl all star games and played behind an awful defense last year that has definitely Improved. Passing judgment on him when a new coach could Implement a better defensive system with an improved d, and more experience as well as team familiarity would all allow it possible for him to hit his stride. Even as it was last year he only suffered only his second regulation loss at the mark of 12-15 games? He definitely had weak spots but I wouldn’t count on him being a lock to be some weak goalie. It’s unbelievable how “sure” people are on something after seeing it so few times.

-Hutton has proved he can be an excellent back up, in the final year of his contract, will
Be motivated to hit one final payday you’d think going forward, also has an improved defense and perhaps a better coached system in place. (Can’t be much worse)

-oh the then there’s one of the best goalie prospects in the world getting to play in front of a new system with an improved defense.

So these things guarantee nothing, if anything it’s less likely these things happen after one year but people should really consider that these things are POSSIBLE rather then going goaltending and coaching MTL AINERRRCCCCCC!!!!!


Not saying you are but that’s one good thing the game has produced in this cap era is surprises.

Last years regular season produced plenty first round was the wildest in history.






Except toronto when they cross the border.

I’m not sure why you quoted me and got so defensive. I’m saying Buffalo has a heavy advantage elsewhere but there’s obviously a huge difference in nets. Without Price this wouldn’t even be a question and even with that advantage I still say Buffalo.

 

[Brownies]

No one should be surprised if any of those two teams do better than the other next year. Montreal did way better last year and have enough young blood to improve... or not because almost everything went well last year and they still missed the playoffs.

Buffalo had another bad year and it would be easy to say that the next years will be the same, but Dalhin is the real deal and with Eichel, that’s two key positions filled so, man, things have get better, no ? Still, They’ve got some work to do to start working together (something the Habs did great last year) but the new GM, Kruger, could fix that.

My head say Buffalo, my heart Montreal.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I think people underrate Montreal's roster here. They have a good workhorse in goal, they have two d-men capable of carrying their pairing, and most of their forwards bring a lot of value outside pure scoring. They are a solid team. Buffalo could be too, if their improved defense can elevate their forwards enough. Transition ability on your defense does so much for your offense.

 

[Lshap]

Montreal finished 20 points ahead of Buffalo with mostly the same rosters. That's a really big gap. Ranking players 'on paper' doesn't compensate for that substantial difference in results. Neither do make-believe excuses like "Under-" and "Over-achieving". In the real world, Montreal was a much better team and appears to be going into this season.

That said, there's no way to predict the development of youth & rookies. Both teams have a superior group of kids, either one of which could leapfrog over the other. Big changes are in store for one or both teams, but I'd give it another two/three years.

Keep in mind, however, that if you imagine Buffalo being able to jump that much higher in the standings, teams like Toronto and Boston also become vulnerable to being overtaken. Teams often don't head in the directions we expect or wish them to.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

I think Montreal way overachieved last year and Buffalo underachieved, so yes I think Buffalo has a better roster.

?? how did montreal way overachieve with an unsustainably atrocious power play and elite 5v5 metrics?

 

[VoluntaryDom]

You have to list the 25 and under to make
Your point, and yeah skinner missed the cutoff barely but I didn’t have to put that. Either way it’s still a gross top group for under 25, way better then people are showing respect to it by saying the habs prospects are lightyears ahead.

And Matthews and Marner? That’s better then Eichel dahlin mittlestadt Reinhart cozens Jokiharju montour ristolainen, Ullmark and arguably the best goalie prospect in the world right now in Luukonen not too mention Olofsson who lead the shl in scoring, and Edmonton? PleAse tell me your joking on that one. Broberg and Bouchard is cool, nurse too, and the big two but it gets veeeeerrry thin after that.

luukkonen is not arguably the best goalie prospect in the world lmao

 

[Merrrlin]

I think both will be mediocre and miss the playoffs. Not overly impressed by either roster, despite a few bright spots on each.

 

[Hostile Offer]

?? how did montreal way overachieve with an unsustainably atrocious power play and elite 5v5 metrics?

That's what a hard working, well coached team with mediocre scoring talent gives you. Elite possession metrics with middling end results. I expect our PP to be better than last year but the talent is not there for us to score much more than last year.

 

[GOALOFSSON]

luukkonen is not arguably the best goalie prospect in the world lmao

gallagher, domi, tatar > eichel, skinner, reinhart imo

and i havent even mentioned danault or kotkaniemi or byron or weal or etc

 

[Perfect_Drug]

I remember a former Oiler giving a talk about mindset and confidence. (I think it was Strudwick).

If this is game #30 and your team has never once come from behind, or scored with an extra attacker for nearly 2 years... do you really go down to block a shot in the third when you're down by a goal?

Those things start to add up.

When McDavid got there, apparently there was a PK v PP drill. When anyone who thought they'd score on a PP went to one sifr of the ice, and everyone who thought PK would defend would go to the other side.

Only McDavid was confident they could score. Hall Eberle & company started razzing him and chastizing him for that.

Imagine your star players have zero confidence in their own abilities in a practice. You think they'll pull it off in game?? They obviously don't even think they can.


The trickle down is absolutely immense.

 

[Syckle78]

This kid called couterier the best player in the world. He's just a hot take machine pay him no mind.

 

[Kamiccolo]

So what you're saying is... the Leafs aren't that good of a team after all? Babcock is still there the last time I checked.

What kind of loaded logic is this? What team fires a coach after half a season of underperforming play? Dubas fired the assistants, that is usually what happens before a HOF coach is fired..

 

[Hostile Offer]

What kind of loaded logic is this? What team fires a coach after half a season of underperforming play? Dubas fired the assistants, that is usually what happens before a HOF coach is fired..

But you blamed Babcock, not the assistants. Either way I'm mostly just messing with you, Leafs fans are so quick to get defensive about themselves and the arguments are all over the place. You have a good team.