Is Buffalo's Roster Better Than Montreal ?

[MasterDecoy]

Is this thread even serious?

I know I'm a biased Hab fan, but their depth is so under-rated in these parts. A week before season's end, they were a win away from passing the Leafs. The roster is much better than HF ever gives it credit for.

I swear this is a yearly thread

 

[Royal Thunder]

Its close... I would say confidently (and homerishly) that our roster is better due to our high end guys, but we are perennial underachievers until we prove otherwise. Montreal never seem to have any high end scoring talent but they always seem to overachieve through coaching and depth. Having Price is definitely a nice bonus for them.

 

[dukeofjive]

On paper for the past few years im baffled that mtl did not end up at the bottom of the league, but with good coaching, a good system there doing alot better than most people expected.

I still think mtl finishes higher than the sabres.

 

[54thecup]

Has anyone looked at this tool (created by Sean Tierney)?

I'm just trying to get a handle on it but it does have some interesting perspective on each teams prospects.

Tableau Public

 

[Stickpucker]

I prefer Buffalo's roster if trying to build a contender and you completely ignore the culture including the front office and coaching.

I think the high end talent in Buffalo is much better they just need to work on depth.

 

[Just Linda]

are you joking ?

Vancouver - EP, Boeser, Horvat, Hughes, Virtanen, Goldobin is coming into his own, Demko, DiPietro, etc. That one is pretty clear to me.

NJD has Hughes, Hishier, Bratt, Zacha, Blackwood, Smith is going to be stepping into a big role this year, etc. That ones a lot closer but even without the top end young Dman, I'd take that young core over Buffalo's.

NYR - Kakko coming in, Zbad is still 25 (I think), DeAngelo, two stud goalie prospects coming up. Tons of great prospects coming up in the next year or two. This one is a lot closer and could go either way.

Boston - pasta, debrusk, McAvoy, carlo... Okay, this one is harder to defend but next year they'll outperform Buffalo's youth. After that, probably will be in Buffalo's favour.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Buffalo has guys with huge potential, but the team still has a lot to prove.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

I have no problems with most of the opinions in the thread.

Three things keep being a bit underestimated though.

1) Montreal’s absolutely better coaching (if someone said Berube with just assistant coaching Experience at the NHL level would out coach julien to win the cup in his first year taking a team from dead last to the playoffs on four months (his first four months) then to the cup right two months after that I don’t think anyone would of believed that.....it’s a new coach let’s see how it goes


2) Montreal has improved depth too. I see buffalo being praised a bit for better depth, true by Montreal has underrated depth in both offense and defense, not stars obviously really but
That’s why it’s called depth, they’re effective.

3) buffalos goaltending being awful (Hutton has proven himself a more then an effective backup in the past and he’s in a contact year, take the pressure off Being a starter and maybe he does Well with an improved coaching system and defense. Ullmark was in his first year; and for that he didn’t do too bad considering the defense was lead by an 18 year old and the team had no system. Again there’s a chance Ullmark breaks out wth an improved defense and Better coaching system, and there’s a bit of a chance UPL who is one of the best prospects in the world in net gets a chance and does well? While also possible price a year older or injured could slow down.

Thats all. Everything else seems accurate outside the hot takes of “I don’t see how it’s possible!!!!!” Of two teams who are actually pretty close and every regular season producing plenty of surprises.

News flash: you will be surprised by at least five teams this regular season, both good and bad. It happens every year.

 

[Kent Nilsson]

This thread is remarkably civil lol

I think MTL is better at being a bubble team this year and next whereas Buffalo has a foreseeable legit contending future.

 

[lauraP]

Vancouver - EP, Boeser, Horvat, Hughes, Virtanen, Goldobin is coming into his own, Demko, DiPietro, etc. That one is pretty clear to me.

NJD has Hughes, Hishier, Bratt, Zacha, Blackwood, Smith is going to be stepping into a big role this year, etc. That ones a lot closer but even without the top end young Dman, I'd take that young core over Buffalo's.

NYR - Kakko coming in, Zbad is still 25 (I think), DeAngelo, two stud goalie prospects coming up. Tons of great prospects coming up in the next year or two. This one is a lot closer and could go either way.

Boston - pasta, debrusk, McAvoy, carlo... Okay, this one is harder to defend but next year they'll outperform Buffalo's youth. After that, probably will be in Buffalo's favour.

Eichel Dahlin and reinhart are better than any of those group of players, easily ZACHA lol, i'm a zacha fan i think he has way more to show, but he's never hit over 25 points, you're obviously a buffalo hater, it's evident in your post

 

[Pyrophorus]

Yes. Eichel and Dahlin dwarf anything young that MTL has.
Its why I picked BUF over MTL in standings.
They improved their D, and Kruger will be great there.

 

[Gjman2019]

I like Buffalo's young players chances of succeeding under Krueger, better than Montreal's young players chances of succeeding under Julien.

Julien a very good coach with a good resume but he does clash a lot with young players and that can hold them back....If KK , Poehling, Suzuki and Caufield don't become stars Montreal's future isn't that good....

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

Pulling a JackAttack here so skip over it if its too long.

Every single season for the past decade, I've looked at Montreals roster and thought it was a lottery team and nearly every single season, they find a way to not suck. A lot of credit goes to Price, but I'm sure some will note their depth and coaching. Until Domi, Pacioretty with 67 points has been their highest scorer since 2010. That is bananaland for a team like that to make the playoffs 6/10 seasons. They've drafted 3rd overall twice so the opportunity to build their team through the draft in theory is behind Buffalo.

Buffalo on the other hand has been a dumpster fire for a decade and continues to be one. They're banking on the hope that Eichel or Dahlin blow up. A lot to gamble there.

So in a nutshell

Buffalo has the high end 2 players.
Montreal has everything else.

I guess if we have to compare the under 25 crops, I guess Buffalo is above average, but that isnt much to brag about "We will be good one day...maybe...hopefully". They have the two holy crap players, but so do a ton of other teams. Here is a list that everyone is apparently too lazy to make and is actually relevant instead of just naming every 25 and under player in the system with majority not even touching NHL ice yet. Hughes and Kakko IMO are the only two who can be thrown on this without playing because we know they're making their teams.

Sabres: Dahlin, Eichel, Risto, Mittlestadt, Reinhart, Montour
Bruins: Pastrnak, Debrusk, McAvoy, Carlo
Red Wings: Larkin, Mantha, Bertuzzi, Athanasiou
Panthers: Barkov, Ekblad, Matheson
Habs: Drouin, Domi, Lehkonen, Kotkaniemi
Sens: Tkahcuk, Chabot
Lightning: Cirelli, Joseph, Point, Sergachev
Leafs: Matthews, Nylander, Kerfoot, Marner, Johnsson, Kapanen, Rielly
Canes: Aho, Teravainen, McGinn, Svechnikov, Foegele, Slavin, Pesce, Fleury
BJ's: Wennberg, Anderson, PLD, Jones,Murray, Werenski
Devils: Hughes, Hishier, Zacha, Severson, Butcher
Isles: Barzal
Rangers: Kakko, Trouba, Skjei
Flyers: Patrick, Konecny, Provorov, Hart
Pens: Guentzel, Galchenyuk
Caps: Vrana, Wilson
Blackhawks: Strome, Debrincat, Maatta
Avalanche: MacKinnon, Compher, Jost, Rantanen, Makar, Zadorov, Girard
Stars: Lindell, Heiskanen
Wild: Dumba
Predators: Forsberg
Blues: Dunn
Jets: Ehlers, Laine, Connor
Ducks: Lindholm
Coyotes: Schmaltz, Dvorak, Keller, Chychrun
Flames: Monahan, Lindholm, Bennett, Jankowski, Tkachuk, Hanifin, Andersson
Oilers: McDavid, Draisaitl, Nurse
Kings: Iafallo
Sharks: Meie, Hertl, Labanc
Canucks: Horvat, Pettersson, Boeser, Hughes
Knights: Tuch, Theodore

So going off this, I think it shows under 25 means absolutely nothing unless your team can develop them correctly. Will Eichel/Dahlin turn into Kane and Keith winning Cups or will they turn into Sedin and Karlsson accomplishing nothing in their careers outside of a few individual trophies.

 

[tony d]

Nope. Buffalo has some talent but I'll take Montreal's over theirs as things stand right now.

 

[CAPFRIENDLYSFINEST]

As a Leafs fan who dislikes both teams its simple for me.
Prospects: Tied
High End Talent: Buffalo
Offense: Montreal
Defense: Buffalo
Goalies: Montreal
Coaching: Montreal

Overall scores 2/3 So technically Montreal has the better roster. THAT BEING SAID, if I was an up and coming GM, Id rather be the GM of Buffalo than Montreal.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

I remember in the late 90s, and early 2000s when the New York Rangers bought or traded for every high-end Superstar, and still sucked.

Lindros
Fleury
Jagr
P.Bure
Messier
Leetch
Holik
Nedved
Kovalev

Sure they were an insanely stacked high-end team. But my god what a disaster they were on the ice.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Is this thread even serious?

I know I'm a biased Hab fan, but their depth is so under-rated in these parts. A week before season's end, they were a win away from passing the Leafs. The roster is much better than HF ever gives it credit for.

It's not exactly a big bragging point but I see it a lot. Leafs severely underachieved last year in 2019. They played at a 17th place finish pace, out of the playoffs. It's part of the reason Leaf fans are calling for Babcock's head.

 

[Just Linda]

Eichel Dahlin and reinhart are better than any of those group of players, easily ZACHA lol, i'm a zacha fan i think he has way more to show, but he's never hit over 25 points, you're obviously a buffalo hater, it's evident in your post

Hey your the one who said ten teams.

Rather than pick out one name, you ignore the rest.

Absolutely in a few years Eichel and Dahlin will be part of a great under 25 core but right now those teams are all better than Buffalo in regards to the talent of their under 25s. The weakest of the teams named have Pasta who's had what 3 straight point per game seasons and had some crazy like 1.3pts per game last year. Also had McAvoy who's already a legit top pairing Dman. Nobody doubts Dahlin's potential nor his ability to meet it but as of today, Boston's youth core is stronger.

Doesn't even count the fact that Vancouver was on your list when they had EP, Boeser, and Horvat build a great under 23 core (which Hughes added to boot) that'll carry them for the next decade.

No, this isn't Buffalo hate. It's realist thinking. Dahlin and Eichel are great pieces to build around, absolutely positively cornerstones to a franchise, but after that the under 25 core just isn't as you advertised it.

I doubt you could find 10 percent of this community that would agree with you that Buffalo has a better unser 25 core than Vancouver.

 

[Satanphonehome]

Interesting. They are pretty tight, IMO with very different strengths and weaknesses across their rosters. Based strictly on how I’d expect them to perform this year:

Eichel > Domi
Skinner > Tatar
Reinhart ~ Gallagher
Johansson ~ Drouin
Rodrigues < Danault
Vesey ~ Armia
Sheary ~ Byron
Mittelstadt ~ Kotkaniemi
Larsson < Lehkonen
Girgensons ~ Weal
Okposo > Cousins
Thompson < Poehling
Sobotka ~ Weise

Dahlin < Weber
Ristolainen < Petry
Montour > Mete
McCabe > Kulak
Miller > Chiarot
Bogosian > Folin
Scandella > Reilly
Jokiharju > Juulsen

Hutton < Price
Ullmark > Kincaid
Hammond > Lindgren

Looks like Buffalo has more talent on the first line, Montreal better depth up front, while the opposite is true on the blueline. Dahlin is huge wildcard for the Sabres. Price is clearly the best goalie. The Sabres have better backups.

All IMO, of course, but it’s pretty hard to argue one roster is significantly better than the other.

Not sure how you work the extra forwards in, but this might be a Stanley Cup winning team this year

Skinner Eichel Gallagher
Tatar Domi Reinhart
Johansson Danault ?
Lehkonen Larsson ?

Dahlin Weber
Petry Ristolainen
McCabe Montour

Price

 

[sharks9]

Has anyone looked at this tool (created by Sean Tierney)?

I'm just trying to get a handle on it but it does have some interesting perspective on each teams prospects.

Tableau Public

Seems to be missing a lot of prospects. I just looked for MTL and they don't have Romanov, Ylonen, Ikonen, etc.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

Gotta think the Panthers, Leafs, Bruins and Lightning take the first 4 spots unless one of them gets hammered with injuries.....

I think the Sabres are better on paper but will they be tougher to play against as the season goes on ?

Very very ugly finish for them....We'll see if Krueger can turn this around

Panthers have no D

 

[Pyrophorus]

It's not exactly a big bragging point but I see it a lot. Leafs severely underachieved last year in 2019. They played at a 17th place finish pace, out of the playoffs. It's part of the reason Leaf fans are calling for Babcock's head.

Exactly. We don't go 28-28, from Nov. on they're far behind.
This Habs talking point is all on us.

 

[izzy]

Definitely not. Buffalo only has high end talent on Montreal. Goaltending, defence and depth all go to the habs.

dahlin, risto, montour, mccabe, miller are a lot better than weber, petry, mete, chiarot and kulak

weber is still the best there but buffalos is a lot better group

not even including jokiharu whos more than capable of playing in the nhl

 

[Rude Dog]

I'd take Habs forwards, D, goal, coaching, and prospect pool over Buffalo's current. Long term, Buffalo have better D but there's not one part of the team (other than LD) that they are better

Let’s revisit your post a year from now. Disagree. Sabres are finally going to surprise a lot of people

 

[HabsMD97]

What in the world... are people here serious? OP isn't asking who is gonna be better down the road or who has the most valuable players. It's exclusively who is gonna be better next year in the standings. The answer is Montreal. Buffalo's depth is absolute crap, goaltending leaves a lot to be desired and coaching is worse. On d, they are extremely unproven and it depends entirely on how much Dahlin can improve next year, but he is still 19 so you can't expect him to be a game changer next year.

Weber and Petry are still better than any D on their roster and Mete and Kulak (as always) are extremely underrated. Montour, risto, bogosian aren't anything special, bogo and risto in particular just aren't good. who has the better future is a better discussion, but next year, Montreal will be better without any doubt, unless they are riddled with injuries. People commenting on how Eichel, skinner, and reinhart are so good and MTL can't compete, well guess what they were all on buffalo last year and each had a career year, yet the team picked 7th overall. Their center depth after Eichel also isn't good, they don't have a 2C.

Top players are important, but you need depth in today's league which MTL has in spades. FYI I don't think either team makes the playoffs, but Buffalo will certainly finish lower.