Is Brent Burns an elite defensemen?

[ThatSaid]

He's an elite offensive d-man. Defensively, he has his issues, but generally, not just this year, but generally, his contributions are a net positive.

He's not as good as Karlsson at offense, or OEL at defense, but he gets the job done. So, as far as offensive D-men go, I'd rank the top-3 like this:

Karlsson
OEL
Burns

So, I guess he's elite at something.

FWIW though, I still think he belongs on Thornton's left wing. On almost no other line do I think he would function well as a forward, but with Jumbo Joe, I think he'd be hard to deal with down there and would be a perennial 30+ goal scorer. That's more a function of how highly I think of Thornton's passing ability, and has much less to do with BB's ability as a d-man. Put him on the wing and let him QB the PP from the point I say.

 

[Subbaman]

He's so elite he is more than one defenseman.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Would this even be a question if he was putting up numbers like say Vlasic?

 

[DJJones]

Would this even be a question if he was putting up numbers like say Vlasic?

?

If an offensive defensive wasn't elite at offense, then no. This wouldn't be a discussion.

 

[Frank Drebin]

?

If an offensive defensive wasn't elite at offense, then no. This wouldn't be a discussion.

Elite implies good at everything. You can be elite while putting up 50 points a year.

My point is he would not be considered elite as a 50 point guy, while someone like Doughty or Vlasic are.

Tldr, he's elite offensively, not all around.

 

[Siludin]

I've noticed Burns is no longer RW-eligible in Yahoo leagues...

 

[Little Psycho]

He's elite offensively but he still gotta work on his D

 

[stator]

no question in my book

 

[CanadienShark]

Elite implies good at everything. You can be elite while putting up 50 points a year.

My point is he would not be considered elite as a 50 point guy, while someone like Doughty or Vlasic are.

Tldr, he's elite offensively, not all around.

No it doesn't.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Yes. He is up there with the best D in the league.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Elite implies good at everything. You can be elite while putting up 50 points a year.

My point is he would not be considered elite as a 50 point guy, while someone like Doughty or Vlasic are.

Tldr, he's elite offensively, not all around.

Mr. Webster;

Is Karlsson elite? or somewhere below Vlasic?

Burns is elite.

 

[Frank Drebin]

No it doesn't.

OK. That's the way I always thought of an elite defenseman. A guy that can play every situation at an elite level... Es...pp...pk... Offensive zone.... Defensive zone.... With a lead... While trailing... Basically a guy who can anchor a team.

Forwards can get away without being elite offensively... Dmen can't unless their production is out of this world like karlsson or Burns last year.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Mr. Webster;

Is Karlsson elite? or somewhere below Vlasic?

Burns is elite.

Karlsson single handedly creates enough offense (consistently) to make up for his perceived defensive shortcomings.

You can build your team around EK. I think it world be foolish to build around Burns, irrespective of age.

 

[Byron Bitz]

He's an elite defenceman on my fantasy team.

 

[weastern bias]

Brent Burns is an elite goal scorer and offensive player, especially at his position

There is nothing elite about his defensive capabilities; he's had a good night if he doesn't get embarrassed in his own zone

Possession stats are effected by your on ice units, and the Sharks were a very good possession team last year, hence the attractive numbers

Burns is a fantastic talent, and the Sharks 2nd best goal scorer, but by my criteria he is not an elite defenseman because he is not elite at defense

He's still an amazing and invaluable scoring presence, and an important part of his team

 

[Dying Alive]

He's an elite offensive d-man. Defensively, he has his issues, but generally, not just this year, but generally, his contributions are a net positive.

He's not as good as Karlsson at offense, or OEL at defense, but he gets the job done. So, as far as offensive D-men go, I'd rank the top-3 like this:

Karlsson
OEL
Burns

So, I guess he's elite at something.

FWIW though, I still think he belongs on Thornton's left wing. On almost no other line do I think he would function well as a forward, but with Jumbo Joe, I think he'd be hard to deal with down there and would be a perennial 30+ goal scorer. That's more a function of how highly I think of Thornton's passing ability, and has much less to do with BB's ability as a d-man. Put him on the wing and let him QB the PP from the point I say.

Letang? Subban?

 

[Juxtaposer]

I think you might be surprised how people feel about Burns. He was getting dumped on pretty hard during the WCH.

Ah yes, the WCH. Definitely a great place to evaluate players.

1 elite season doesn't put someone into the elite category. Remember when Flames fans got everyone to think Giordano was a top 5 D?

Giordano is unquestionably elite, so I'm not really sure what your point is.

IMO he's not as good as Karlsson, Doughty, Keith, Subban and Weber. However, I do think he's on par with guys like Josi, Letang, Suter, OEL and Hedman. Not top 5, but top 10. Whether or not you consider that elite is pretty arbitrary, but he's certainly very, very good, a strong #1 dman.

I think the issue is that a lot of people's definitions of elite are different.

Elite Dmen, IMO, are Karlsson, Doughty, Burns, Hedman, Subban, OEL, Letang, Keith, Giordano (in no order necessarily). These players are all either top-5 offensively and above average defensively (Karlsson, Burns, Subban, Letang), top-5 defensively and above average offensively (Doughty), or top-10 in both (Keith, OEL, Hedman, Giordano). Passes the sniff test for me and 9 seems like a good number for elite defensemen in this league. Guys like Josi are elite offensively but average at best defensively. Guys like Vlasic are elite defensively but average at best offensively. Burns is unquestionably superior to players like Weber and Pietrangelo, whom he clearly bested in the playoffs. He is about on par with Letang.


I think Burns is incredibly underrated defensively. Does he make some bad giveaways? Of course; he has the puck all the time. Does he make some risky plays that come back to bite him? Of course; but they work out most of the time because he's so talented offensively it makes the risk worth it. But Burns is a great 2-on-1 defender, he's very strong along the boards and in front of the net, and he's in position more often than not. He is unquestionably above average defensively.

And in terms of WOWYs, if you wanna whine about how his numbers are benefitted by Thornton/Pavelski/Hertl, you have to know 1) it goes both ways, those three are worse without Burns, and 2) that's because the Sharks have four elite possession players (Thornton/Hertl/Burns/Vlasic) and so of course Burns' numbers will be worse when he plays with other forwards. On the contrary, when Thornton isn't playing with Burns, he's often with Vlasic, who is also an elite possession player.

Karlsson single handedly creates enough offense (consistently) to make up for his perceived defensive shortcomings.

You can build your team around EK. I think it world be foolish to build around Burns, irrespective of age.

You clearly haven't watched Burns then. Burns is the lifeblood of the Sharks' offense. If he goes down, or offense likely goes down the toilet. It's true that Karlsson doesn't have a Thornton like Burns does, but that's not a good reason to punish Burns.

 

[linusandvarlamov]

Oh he's elite for sure !!! I don't think there was any defenseman better than him last year ! Just watch some of those games from last year's playoffs ! He really is something else, especially his positioning on the blue-line and the way he thinks his offensive game ! He has one hell of a clapper too !

 

[WesMcCauley]

Is letang?
Is subban?
Is Josi?

Josi isnt at good as Letang or Subban. Josi is the definition of offensive defensemen. He is great dont get me wrong but he has serious weaknesses defensivly. If people think Karlsson struggles defensivly they should look at Josi because he is alot worse in his own sone. Great offensivly, very overrated as a twoway defensemen imo.



Burns is definetly elite imo.
Last season only Karlsson and Letang were better imo

 

[Sureves]

Yes.

Burns is actually pretty decent in his own end; my "issue" with him is that in the offensive zone he often plays like a forward and neglects the fact that he is a defenseman.

It actually doesn't bother me because it's effective, but it bothers me because Karlsson plays nothing like this, and people inevitably see that the point totals match and assume Karlsson plays the same way when he doesn't at all.

Tangential rant aside, yes he is elite.

 

[Sureves]

Elite implies good at everything. You can be elite while putting up 50 points a year.

My point is he would not be considered elite as a 50 point guy, while someone like Doughty or Vlasic are.

Tldr, he's elite offensively, not all around.

This is such nonsensical garbage.

Is Doughty "elite" offensively in your view then? There's like a 25 point difference between the two of them...

 

[Used As A Shield]

Yes.

Burns is actually pretty decent in his own end; my "issue" with him is that in the offensive zone he often plays like a forward and neglects the fact that he is a defenseman.

It actually doesn't bother me because it's effective, but it bothers me because Karlsson plays nothing like this, and people inevitably see that the point totals match and assume Karlsson plays the same way when he doesn't at all.

Tangential rant aside, yes he is elite.

A surprising amount of his goals actually come from the blueline though, it is not like he is getting all his goals from playing like a forward. Now here I go imagining what his goal totals could have been if Pavelski wasn't stealing so many with tip-ins...

 

[Sureves]

A surprising amount of his goals actually come from the blueline though, it is not like he is getting all his goals from playing like a forward. Now here I go imagining what his goal totals could have been if Pavelski wasn't stealing so many with tip-ins...

Definitely true. Burns is a top 3 shooter (amongst defenseman) from the blueline in the entire game, and I could easily see an argument for #1.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

People are crediting Paul Martin way too much on his impact on Burns' defensive play.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

People are crediting Paul Martin way too much on his impact on Burns' defensive play.

Letang beside Paul Martin was night and day when he was paired with orpik