Is Brent Burns an elite defensemen?

[Nordic*]

Had an elite season but isn't an elite player, if that makes any sense.

 

[TT1]

Had an elite season but isn't an elite player, if that makes any sense.

Sure, elite player's are considered elite because of their consistency.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Would like to know why.

He's not really a defenseman, for starters.

 

[Zaddy91]

hes not consistent enough to be one when hes on he is

 

[hohosaregood]

Best answer. He is a power-forward Doug Wilson has been teaching defense over the past 2 seasons. What is he good at?

Play-making.
Getting shots through.
Sneaking the Ovi spot.
QBing a PP.

What is he bad at?
Defense.

Every so often he will make a great defensive play - but more often than not you'll face palm the slide of last resort. Without someone like Martin, Burns loses games with his defensive mistakes. Seriously. At 5v5, the difference between someone like MEV, an elite defenseman, and Burns, an elite rover, is night and day. Don't get me wrong, he is great at what he is great at - but defense is not his thing.

Elite offensive talent.
Workable defensive talent.

You know he was playing defense for like a decade before the Sharks got him right?

 

[DearDiary]

1 elite season doesn't put someone into the elite category. Remember when Flames fans got everyone to think Giordano was a top 5 D?

 

[Hennessy]

Yes, but with some wiggle room. I like Burns a lot, and while I do think you can call him elite, he's not knocking it out of the park. Which, frankly, is the sort of thing you would be doing yearly to cement yourself as elite. But he's been good enough for long enough that I don't think it's wrong to put him up there, even if the pedestal might be a little shaky.

 

[Claypool]

At playing defense? No.

 

[Sysreq]

You know he was playing defense for like a decade before the Sharks got him right?

Ya dude - I know. You are making a minor semantic argument that attempts to discredit the main point by high-lighting a tangential topic. Irregardless though - I will engage. Even you must acknowledge that SJ invested a significant amount of time and energy into developing his potential. Trust me, there have been plenty of discussions about Burns on defense - and until very recently they were not "is he elite or just pretty good?". You look at how he was performing 2 seasons ago, just coming back to defense after playing with Jumbo versus how he is performing now and you will see a stark difference. Without the commitment of Doug Wilson and his staff, and their willingness to build around Burns, we would not be having this discussion today.

 

[Stuzchuk]

he would not be part of my elite 6

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Guy needs to do what he did for more than 2/3 of a season to enter that ballpark imo.

Waaayyyy too much recency bias in here.

 

[Nalens Oga]

He'd definetely be in the top 30, possibly top 15.

You can tell that he's not a natural dman though, he makes a lot of idiotic and stupid plays at times (including with the puck). Some of his pinches can be really good and he probably does more good with the puck than bad but at the same time, I thought it was a huge double-standard taking him instead of PK/Letang for Team Canada since they get accused of the same things but imo, move the puck more decisively and quickly.

 

[ponder]

IMO he's not as good as Karlsson, Doughty, Keith, Subban and Weber. However, I do think he's on par with guys like Josi, Letang, Suter, OEL and Hedman. Not top 5, but top 10. Whether or not you consider that elite is pretty arbitrary, but he's certainly very, very good, a strong #1 dman.

 

[CanadienShark]

He'd definetely be in the top 30, possibly top 15.

You can tell that he's not a natural dman though, he makes a lot of idiotic and stupid plays at times (including with the puck). Some of his pinches can be really good and he probably does more good with the puck than bad but at the same time, I thought it was a huge double-standard taking him instead of PK/Letang for Team Canada since they get accused of the same things but imo, move the puck more decisively and quickly.

If he's not in your top 15, I'm not sure you've actually seen him play.

He is a natural d-man. Unless you consider basically a decade+ of playing as a d-man to be irrelevant.

 

[Alwalys]

Burns is on the edge of superstar. That makes him elite in any book.

 

[useless]

Compared to his current peers in the league he is, but I think the current NHL talent is pretty weak to what has been in the past. Past doesn't matter though, the only thing that matters is your current situation and that makes him elite in my books.

 

[Sleepy]

Well he's above average defensively based on the most of the common defenseive metrics (Shots, Fenwick, Corsi, Scoring Chances against)

This is it. People act like offense and defense are two easily separable things. He's good defensively because he's really good at recovering the puck, moving it out of the zone, and/or keeping it in the offensive zone. All things that keep pucks out of your net

Unfortunately, his weakness is he does blow coverage sometimes in very obvious ways. This leads to people saying he's terrible defensively. Overall though, he had a Norris-type year and should be in everyone's top 15 for defensemen. That's elite IMO.

 

[DJJones]

1 elite season doesn't put someone into the elite category. Remember when Flames fans got everyone to think Giordano was a top 5 D?

Really? He's gotten better every year since 2014/2015

Last 60 games of this season was Norris worthy. Obviously he wasn't going to get nominated after his brutal start and our embarrassing goaltending but to suggest that he only had one good year is hilarious.

EK; 60GP, 11 Goals, 47 Assists
Letang; 50 GP, 15 Goals, 39 Assists
Burns; 60 GP, 18 Goals, 38 Assists
Gio; 60 GP, 17 Goals, 33 Assists

Plus he actually is good at defense haha

By the way how did Letang not win the Norris? I get that Doughty was owed one but still.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Really? He's gotten better every year since 2014/2015

Last 60 games of this season was Norris worthy. Obviously he wasn't going to get nominated after his brutal start and our embarrassing goaltending but to suggest that he only had one good year is hilarious.

EK; 60GP, 11 Goals, 47 Assists
Letang; 50 GP, 15 Goals, 39 Assists
Burns; 60 GP, 18 Goals, 38 Assists
Gio; 60 GP, 17 Goals, 33 Assists

Plus he actually is good at defense haha

By the way how did Letang not win the Norris? I get that Doughty was owed one but still.

Honestly I just wanted him nominated it doesn't matter if he plays balls out and carries the defensive end.
He is underrated by the media imo

Maybe I overrate him Idk I'm a big letang fan though

 

[Kojo]

He's an excellent forward playing defense.

 

[teravaineSAROS]

but I think the current NHL talent is pretty weak to what has been in the past.

Did you just say that?

 

[ijuka]

Brent Burns is a great defenseman.

He's most definitely a late bloomer but that shouldn't diminish his value.

People who say he's bad defensively have no idea what they are talking about. Hockey is a team game and there are different roles and different strengths and weaknesses for everyone. Someone needs to be able to get the puck out of the zone and D scoring is very important in today's NHL. Every single team would be happy to have him.


To actually answer, he fits my definition of "elite".

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Burns is an elite....

second pair defenseman.

He gets propped up by always being out with the Thornton line, and Paul Martin may be the best thing that happened to his career. The Vlasic-Braun pair do an important job carrying the depth lines.

But in his role, he is elite. Reminds me of Dion Phaneuf as a young gun who played a similar second pair role with Hamrlik and was considered a perennial Norris contender by age 22. But once he was given true top pair responsibilities his play fell off the map. Shattenkirk may also be a comparable. Also Keith Yandle. These guys are dominant hockey players when their blemishes are masked. But those blemishes form a double edged sword.

Would Burns be elite given the same responsibilities as TJ Brodie, Duncan Keith, Vlasic, heck Erik Karlsson/John Klingberg? IMO no.

 

[Alwalys]

Burns is an elite....

second pair defenseman.

He gets propped up by always being out with the Thornton line, and Paul Martin may be the best thing that happened to his career. The Vlasic-Braun pair do an important job carrying the depth lines.

But in his role, he is elite. Reminds me of Dion Phaneuf as a young gun who played a similar second pair role with Hamrlik and was considered a perennial Norris contender by age 22. But once he was given true top pair responsibilities his play fell off the map. Shattenkirk may also be a comparable. Also Keith Yandle. These guys are dominant hockey players when their blemishes are masked. But those blemishes form a double edged sword.

Would Burns be elite given the same responsibilities as TJ Brodie, Duncan Keith, Vlasic, heck Erik Karlsson/John Klingberg? IMO no.

1. He plays about equally behind the 1st and 2nd lines.
2. What responsibilities does he not have? He plays the most minutes on the team, plays in all situations, plays against all competition. Yeah he is not a defensive specialist so he is not deployed like one but he does not get deployed like an offensive specialist either and absolutely crushes offense.

He is significantly better than every single comparable you named and is absolutely up there with Keith, Vlasic, Karlsson, Brodie and Klingberg.

 

[Paul4587]

Last year he definitely was.