Is Barkov leading Selke race?

[East Coast Icestyle]

No im just tired that people don't give him any respect and have no clue what a stud of a player he is.


Never said Wennbergs defense was bad but you are talking about a guy that was 6th last year as a 20 year old with votes for 1st aswell.


Im not saying that hes the 1 overall for the rest of the careers more that he and Mack are probably 1-2 still in any order.

I don't understand how you equate my valueing other players equally to giving him no respect? I didn't once say he wasn't a great player, or that he was going to be an elite player in his career, so you're getting offended on his behalf for no reason.

 

[FLpanthers16]

I don't understand how you equate my valueing other players equally to giving him no respect? I didn't once say he wasn't a great player, or that he was going to be an elite player in his career, so you're getting offended on his behalf for no reason.

No saying that i have a complex for him or something along those line when im a Panthers fan, ofc im a Barkov fan would be suprising otherwise.


Im not here to say that every other player is garbage or so, i just said that he and Mack are as of know 1-2 still, that can change many times.


Ohh well im not here to argue, merry christmas!

 

[MuckOG]

No but calling me a fanboy or something along those line when im a Panthers fan, ofc im a Barkov fan would be suprising otherwise.


Im not here to say that every other player is garbage or so, i just said that he and Mack are as of know 1-2 still, that can change many times.


Ohh well im not here to argue, merry christmas!

What argument can you present to convince me that Barkov leads someone like Koivu for the Selke?

Koivu has a much higher +/-, FOW%, SHFOW, etc, etc. etc..

 

[FLpanthers16]

Serious question...what argument do you have to say that Barkov leads someone like Koivu for the Selke?

Koivu has a much higher +/-, FOW%, SHFOW, etc, etc. etc..

More points? hes a better player playing on a worse team this year with horrible linemates. Higher cf% etc.

Hes a + on a minus team overall? what more do you need?

 

[MuckOG]

More points? hes a better player playing on a worse team this year with horrible linemates. Higher cf% etc.

Hes a + on a minus team overall? what more do you need?

6 more points with 2 more games played? That's your argument?

Night in and night out, Koivu is matched up against the other teams top center and is a +19. Koivu's FOW% is 55.4% compared to Barkov's 46.6% (that is a HUGE difference).
Barkov's has only 17 short handed face off wins compared to Koivu's 63 wins.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Stone should but you know. He's not a center

 

[FLpanthers16]

6 more points with 2 more games played? That's your argument?

Night in and night out, Koivu is matched up against the other teams top center and is a +19. Koivu's FOW% is 55.4% compared to Barkov's 46.6% (that is a HUGE difference).
Barkov's has only 17 short handed face off wins compared to Koivu's 63 wins.

With our offense and his linemates it's incredible that he has 6 more points then Koviu, he also has 22 in his last 23 so pretty much PPG over a 25 game span. Without Jagr's terrible start he would be closer to 35+ points today.


Barkov plays against the best of the best aswell, Laine did nothing when matched up against him and i could go on and on. His FO are the only weakness but his still young and learning the FO game in the NHL.

 

[East Coast Icestyle]

Stone should but you know. He's not a center

I agree that Stone should be considered, is elite at defense.

However, centers generally have much more defensive responsibity and thus are more often the most recognized.

 

[MuckOG]

With our offense and his linemates it's incredible that he has 6 more points then Koviu, he also has 22 in his last 23 so pretty much PPG over a 25 game span. Without Jagr's terrible start he would be closer to 35+ points today.


Barkov plays against the best of the best aswell, Laine did nothing when matched up against him and i could go on and on. His FO are the only weakness but his still young and learning the FO game in the NHL.

As I'm sure you're aware, the Selke is an award for defensive play, not points scored. Barkov having more points than Koivu is irrelevant.

 

[FLpanthers16]

As I'm sure you're aware, the Selke is an award for defensive play, not points scored. Barkov having more points than Koivu is irrelevant.

Yeah and hes elite at that aswell so not sure what more i can say.

Hes a + on a minus team overall playing against the best of the best.

 

[RageQuit77]

Koivu, Barkov, or whomever...

The World does not collapse to this... before Selke is actually awarded.

(There should be possibility to award an individual trophy for multiple players routinely, as it would make more sense, and it would also increase those awards' prestige, honoring award-worthy people more, and generally making whole thing more meaningful. Particularly in cases where the winner cannot be decided simply by looking at a single or few statistical categories out of their game-play contexts. Selke is practically best example of an award where this kind habit would be usually more then justified. NHL generally is however intellectually and emotionally incapable to ever make that kind things to happen. That's bad for the hockey, as well as for the commericial product. Sadly.)

Good luck for everyone of them, Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year!

 

[East Coast Icestyle]

Yeah and hes elite at that aswell so not sure what more i can say.

Hes a + on a minus team overall playing against the best of the best.

So is Matt Tkachuk but he's not a favourite.

Sorry, just throwing this out there but plus minus is really not what wins someone a selke. I'm sure Barkov has a great case but plus minus and points aren't it.

 

[FLpanthers16]

So is Matt Tkachuk but he's not a favourite.

Sorry, just throwing this out there but plus minus is really not what wins someone a selke. I'm sure Barkov has a great case but plus minus and points aren't it.

Points is always a big part of the award, a 40 point player in not going to win the award and thats pretty much the reason why Bergeron is not winning it this year if he doesn't pick up.


And yeah but a minus team and still a + playing against the Laines, MacKinnons etc.

 

[Ducks DVM]

I think it's reasonable to expect a Selke winner to not be 3rd on his own team in total defensive zone faceoffs taken (and be significantly above the 44.7% he currently sits at there). He belongs in the conversation, but that's a pretty gaping hole in his game he needs to fix before being considered one of the truly elite (as in, Bergeron every other year but this one).

 

[FLpanthers16]

I think it's reasonable to expect a Selke winner to not be 3rd on his own team in total defensive zone faceoffs taken (and be significantly above the 44.7% he currently sits at there). He belongs in the conversation, but that's a pretty gaping hole in his game he needs to fix before being considered one of the truly elite (as in, Bergeron every other year but this one).

Playing with Jagr and Seth Grifftih will do that to you, not the best defensive players.

 

[MightySelanne8]

Points is always a big part of the award, a 40 point player in not going to win the award and thats pretty much the reason why Bergeron is not winning it this year if he doesn't pick up.

Jere Lehtinen was a three-time Selke-winner and IIRC he did win it with 45ish points. Things like this will take credibility from your posts. I agree that Barkov is first or second best for Selke as of now, with Kesler.

 

[scallionjj11]

any love for Mark Stone in here?

 

[Sojourn]

I think people really under rate Barkov. He is better than kesler.

I think you have to take in to account at which position they are in.

Barkov carries a whole team. Where Kesler is no 2 C at a sheltered role.

Kesler is sheltered? That's, uh, interesting.

As for Barkov carrying a whole team, this isn't the Hart.

 

[Ainec]

I don't understand how you equate my valueing other players equally to giving him no respect? I didn't once say he wasn't a great player, or that he was going to be an elite player in his career, so you're getting offended on his behalf for no reason.

Because arguing anyone in 2013 especially Wennberg is on equal footing is ridiculous.

 

[FLpanthers16]

Jere Lehtinen was a three-time Selke-winner and IIRC he did win it with 45ish points. Things like this will take credibility from your posts. I agree that Barkov is first or second best for Selke as of now, with Kesler.

Thing have changed since he won it. Points have become more apart of the award hence the 2way title alot of the guys get.

 

[Sojourn]

As I'm sure you're aware, the Selke is an award for defensive play, not points scored. Barkov having more points than Koivu is irrelevant.

You would be wrong on that count. The Selke, despite how the NHL tries to label it, has become an award for two-way play. Look beyond the label, and look at the precedent. Points matter. That doesn't mean it's the ultimate deciding factor, but it is relevant.

 

[Super Hans]

Jere Lehtinen was a three-time Selke-winner and IIRC he did win it with 45ish points. Things like this will take credibility from your posts. I agree that Barkov is first or second best for Selke as of now, with Kesler.

No, it takes credibility from the recent hockey media. He's not wrong. Selke has become "best defensive center with lots of points" the last 10 or so years. I'm sure that poster would agree with you that the award should go to the "forward who demonstrates the most skill in the defensive component". His statement about points stems from the recent voting trend for the award.

 

[FLpanthers16]

No, it takes credibility from the recent hockey media. He's not wrong. Selke has become "best defensive center with lots of points" the last 10 or so years. I'm sure that poster would agree with you that the award should go to the "forward who demonstrates the most skill in the defensive component". His statement about points stems from the recent voting trend for the award.

You would be wrong on that count. The Selke, despite how the NHL tries to label it, has become an award for two-way play. Look beyond the label, and look at the precedent. Points matter. That doesn't mean it's the ultimate deciding factor, but it is relevant.

This times 2 thank you The award has changed to more a 2way play type of award just like these guys mention.

 

[Sojourn]

This times 2 thank you The award has changed to more a 2way play type of award just like these guys mention.

I think 2007 was a good example of that, at least in my opinion. Pahlsson, to me, was the best defensive forward in the league that year. Brind'Amour is the one who took home the Selke. So what was the difference? Offense. Pahlsson was a beast defensively, and there is no one I would have rather had on the ice to shutdown the opposing players, but his 26 points just couldn't compete with Brind'Amour's 82 points. Admittedly, that's a huge gap offensively, but if the award was just about defense, that gap would have been irrelevant.

Following that, Datsyuk went on his Selke run. Again, putting up terrific offensive numbers while playing great defensively. There is a consistent theme with the Selke, and when you look at recent history I think it becomes more prominent. A defensive award, yes, but awarded to players who are able to contribute offensively.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Playing with Jagr and Seth Grifftih will do that to you, not the best defensive players.

Barkov's faceoffs numbers are bad in every zone in every year of his career. It's not just his linemates. Luckily, it's a trainable skill.

An elite level Selke winner is trusted in his defensive zone at the end of games. Right now, that's not him. It's not saying he couldn't win one in a down year, but he's nowhere near the level of the guys who've been winning it WHEN they've been winning it.