Interesting Info: Part XXI (Jackets-related "tidbits" here)

[Byrral]

To add, MOST of you wanted the team “led” or “full” of offensive players like Jack Roslovic, not players like Dubinsky and Jenner

MOST can answer for themselves.

A contending team usually carries both of these much needed types of player when they are a championship level team. The CBJ doesn't have this type mix yet. They went from mostly grinder type players to mostly soft skilled guys. Jarmo and JD have a lot of work to do.

 

[thebus88]

C’mon - you can’t leave out my boy Dalton Prout.

Look at the all the issues this current CBJ team has in their own zone and especially around the net. Going from having guys like Prout and Savard around, to Gavrikov being our “toughest” or “most physical” defenseman, is a huge problem.

The CBJ arguably have both the worst defensive positioning and the softest defense in the entire league. To add, Gavrikov is 1 of the softest “physical defenseman” in the entire league.

I miss Savard and Murray, in addition to a guy like Prout.

We might not be talking enough about the decisions Jarmo/the front office has made regarding the defense that they thought they could bring to the ice. The timing is all mixed up. This offensive style defense would have been great with all our defensively responsible forwards we USED to have. NOT with the group of forwards we have now.

 

[thebus88]

MOST can answer for themselves.

A contending team usually carries both of these much needed types of player when they are a championship level team. The CBJ doesn't have this type mix yet. They went from mostly grinder type players to mostly soft skilled guys. Jarmo and JD have a lot of work to do.

NO.

The problem is the players who are just “grinders” or “skill” guys, or the fan perception that these can only be seen as separate.

The truth is, for a “championship level team”, you need your “skill guys” to GRIND, and your “grinders” to have SKILL.

We HAD that. People still weren’t happy. Now, we’ve taken MULTIPLE STEPS BACK.

The Jones trade also isn’t some guaranteed “slam dunk” the way people have made it seem.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

NO.

The problem is the players who are just “grinders” or “skill” guys, or the fan perception that these can only be seen as separate.

The truth is, for a “championship level team”, you need your “skill guys” to GRIND, and your “grinders” to have SKILL.

We HAD that. People still weren’t happy. Now, we’ve taken MULTIPLE STEPS BACK.

The Jones trade also isn’t some guaranteed “slam dunk” the way people have made it seem.

Not one person wanted less "grind" on the team. We just wanted more "skill."

The issue was our "grind" players were playing "skill" minutes. And most people realized that only had such a high ceiling to win with. Dubinsky, Foligno, and Anderson should have been getting third line minutes + some PK and PP time. One was playing first line minutes, and the other two at second line minutes.

I do agree we need more grind. Our most physical forward other than Jenner is Sean Kuraly and he's not even that physical. However, finding grind and jam is a lot easier than finding the skill players. So in our rebuild year we have stocked up on "skilled" forwards and "skilled" defenseman, and will probably pick from the best of them and trade the others for other pieces to fill out the roster with more jam.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

We like the jam we just want to preserve it while the team has time to jelly.

 

[Byrral]

NO.

The problem is the players who are just “grinders” or “skill” guys, or the fan perception that these can only be seen as separate.

The truth is, for a “championship level team”, you need your “skill guys” to GRIND, and your “grinders” to have SKILL.

We HAD that. People still weren’t happy. Now, we’ve taken MULTIPLE STEPS BACK.

The Jones trade also isn’t some guaranteed “slam dunk” the way people have made it seem.

It's ok to diagree on what type players you need to have on a championship team. I don't share your opinion that "We HAD that" yet. We were certainly way closer back then until Panarin left.

You should start a thread on this because we're kind of out of bounds in this thread. I agree with some of your points regarding Jarmo and Co., and where the direction of this team is going because I really don't know where they re headed at this point.

 

[VT]

Look at Finland...

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Looks like we’re back to Finland next year

 

[Viqsi]

I know folks here generally don't give a damn about the All-Star Game or the Skills Competition, but I am nonetheless pumped that Werenski managed to win the Fountain Face-Off.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I know folks here generally don't give a damn about the All-Star Game or the Skills Competition, but I am nonetheless pumped that Werenski managed to win the Fountain Face-Off.

was a cool event. Well done by the league

 

[Viqsi]

Micah Blake McCurdy appears to have confirmed via stats that this team truly is, officially, the insanity rollercoaster team of the NHL this season:

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

 

[CBJ goalie]

Pretty nice....glad he ditched all the green, like he had on his last mask.
One pet peeve of mine is the use of green, like Merzly has on one of his masks. CBJ do not employ green in their current uniform.
If it was with vintage CBJ jersey, sure.

 

[Cowumbus]

Bjorkstrand is 1st and Werenski is 3rd across the NHL in posts hit this year.

 

[tunnelvision]

Bjorkstrand is 1st and Werenski is 3rd across the NHL in posts hit this year.

Huselius holds the "posts hit in a season" record?

 

[Cowumbus]

As expected the defense is bad in general. Harrington showing why he is a career AHLer, and with Christiansen we need to see a larger sample size.

Honestly the main reason that I show this is saying that TOI does not necessarily correlate directly to how good someone is. Peeke 5v5 is one of our worst Dmen, yet he lead the team in TOI.

 

[Monk]

Honestly the main reason that I show this is saying that TOI does not necessarily correlate directly to how good someone is. Peeke 5v5 is one of our worst Dmen, yet he lead the team in TOI.

I'm not sure I follow. Do you mean that how good a player is (statistically) doesn't seem to factor into the coaches' TOI decision-making? I would think more TOI = more likely to have bad stats if your role is stay at home defenseman. Sort of a chicken / egg scenario..

 

[Cowumbus]

I'm not sure I follow. Do you mean that how good a player is (statistically) doesn't seem to factor into the coaches' TOI decision-making? I would think more TOI = more likely to have bad stats if your role is stay at home defenseman. Sort of a chicken / egg scenario..

I mean that some see Peeke’s ice time increasing as a sign that he is improving, but his underlying metrics are bad and remain bad. Had the worst Corsi% (27% all, 32% 5v5) last night..

 

[majormajor]

As expected the defense is bad in general. Harrington showing why he is a career AHLer, and with Christiansen we need to see a larger sample size.

Honestly the main reason that I show this is saying that TOI does not necessarily correlate directly to how good someone is. Peeke 5v5 is one of our worst Dmen, yet he lead the team in TOI.

My general understanding is that Peeke doesn't get good results, at least not yet. But I'm also hesitant to rely on charts like this where I can't tell how they factor in usage/difficulty. Peeke doesn't play the same type of situations as Boqvist.

I'm not in a hurry to figure it out though, this is a development year and we just have to play all of these young guys and hope they get better. And Peeke is fun to watch.

I'm not sure I follow. Do you mean that how good a player is (statistically) doesn't seem to factor into the coaches' TOI decision-making? I would think more TOI = more likely to have bad stats if your role is stay at home defenseman. Sort of a chicken / egg scenario..

On these sorts of percentages charts, the TOI doesn't matter. If a team is getting 75% of the xG with a particular player on the ice, it will look the same whether that's 4 total scoring chances in 10 minutes or 25 scoring chances in half an hour.

 

[Cowumbus]

My general understanding is that Peeke doesn't get good results, at least not yet. But I'm also hesitant to rely on charts like this where I can't tell how they factor in usage/difficulty. Peeke doesn't play the same type of situations as Boqvist.

If you like physical play then yes, Peeke is fun to watch. If you want sound defensive play, then not so much - yet.
All these charts are 5v5.

 

[majormajor]

If you like physical play then yes

Yes.

All these charts are 5v5.

Right, I assumed that, I just figured there wasn't a zone start adjustment. Peeke plays in the D zone a lot more than Boqvist and Bean do.

I wish I had a better sense of the kind of impact that has on xGs - like "one percentage point of higher D zone starts roughly equates to a 2/10 of a percentage point worsening in xG%". I don't have a rough sense of it.

 

[Cowumbus]

Yes.



Right, I assumed that, I just figured there wasn't a zone start adjustment. Peeke plays in the D zone a lot more than Boqvist and Bean do.

I wish I had a better sense of the kind of impact that has on xGs - like "one percentage point of higher D zone starts roughly equates to a 2/10 of a percentage point worsening in xG%". I don't have a rough sense of it.

Probably varies by team honestly.

 

[makethesave]

So....let's trade Peeke. What can CBJ expect to get in return ? Keep in mind this is really only his first full season with only 77 NHL games under his belt. A 6'3", 200 lb, RHD that's a two-way defenseman with snarl. What could we expect back in return ?

 

[Viqsi]

So....let's trade Peeke.

Why? We're already low on RHD and folks with that skillset. And it's not like he's a veteran who'll age out of our timetable.

 

[makethesave]

Why? We're already low on RHD and folks with that skillset. And it's not like he's a veteran who'll age out of our timetable.

I was actually being a bit sarcastic with the armchair GMs that are using some analytic to criticize a player. An example..."worst corsi last night". It was for sure, but if you dig deeper you would see that the great majority of faceoffs while Peeke was on the ice in both O-zone and D-zone were won by Washington, thereby eliminating any immediate possession opportunity. Any coach in this league would take the game he played over final Corsi number result any day. The kid's got character. I'm liking his play and a fan of him, Gavrikov, Jenner, Kuraly, and Voracek. Character and hard-working players.