Proposal: Interest in Buff?

[VictoriaJetsFan]

Ladd is good, and would be great on our team, but he would not fair well again Lucic. Lucie is not a big factor, but we do need someone that will keep his ilk in its place. Allen and Tinordi (with some gumption) could do that. Buff could, too ... but, he is not worth a king's ransom. Ladd ... I'd give a lower end blue chip, so a Beaulieu or a Tinordu, but not Sherbak (unless he really hurt his neck).

I don't really know what the Jets need. They have sucked for so long. They seem to have an Oilers issue, where they need primo role players and lower end D, and not stars. But, I don't really watch the Jets unless they are in the playoffs. I think they may also need to parlay Kane in to valuable assets who aren't head cases, but what do I know. :p

It's clear you know little to nothing about the Winnipeg Jets.

 

[Bacchus1]

Habs are over achieving right now. I'm sure that Bergevin is super stoked, and would make minor trades a la Vanek, but his eyes are on 2016-17 I'm sure. He has been drafting well to make a perennial contender, and so mortgaging the future makes no sense. Gainey was trying the same thing, and then he lost his daughter, and then he seemed to lose sight of the bigger picture. We are reaping the benefits of Gainey and Savard and Timmins now, so I see no point in making big moves that basically empty the shelf. This is not how you construct a perennial contender like the Kings and Hawks. Maybe if you are short sighted like the penguins and Flyers, or even the Capitals who for some Pejorative Slured reason gave up on Forsberg (or Gainey/Savard on McDonough is said losing sight of bigger picture) ... but Bergen is in a very strong position where his predecessors stocked the shelves well, and now his has a 5-7 year mandate to make a new Habs team that will be a SC contender every year ... I believe. So, giving up blue chips is a non-starter. We'll give up some of our secondary assets, like we did for Vanek, but I doubt much more. So, it is pie in the sky, I think, that you will make a trade based on getting top prospects from us.

 

[Bacchus1]

It's clear you know little to nothing about the Winnipeg Jets.

Yes, I agree ... in fact, I said that so that this comment wouldn't have to be posted.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yeah, no retention + Allen works for me. I'd rather keep Gonchar.

So proposal is;

1 of Beaulieu/Tinordi
1st Round Pick
Bryan Allen

for

Dustin Byfuglien

Galchenyuk - Plekanec - Gallagher
Pacioretty - Desharnais - Parenteau
Sekac - Eller - Byfuglien
Prust - Malhotra - Weise

Markov - Subban
Gonchar - Gilbert
Beaulieu/Tinordi - Weaver

Price
Tokarski

Looks really good to me. You could always switch Buff and PAP to give Sekac/Eller some creativity and Patch/DD some grit.

Buff's contract isn't perfect, but it doesn't really hurt us from resigning any of our key players.

A 1st and Beaulieu is too rich for my blood.

 

[Bacchus1]

It's clear you know little to nothing about the Winnipeg Jets.

BTW, just so you don't think I am a dick, I totally support all Canadian teams not called the Leafs or Senators. Every time the Oilers, Canucks, or (I'm embarrassed) the flames have been in the playoffs, I have rooted for them when they don't play the Habs. I was also extremely pissed when the Jets were forced to relocate, because the fans in the Peg are awesome! And, I love the Avro, too ... and was sad that the project was sunk. Although, I spent time in the Peg, and would never want to live there .... but that goes for most Canadian cities, that are too bloody cold ... but Winnipeg brings that all to a new level.

I hope that the Oilers and Jets turn their teams around, and that soon, we have a Stanley Cup playoffs filled with Canadian teams not called the leafs

 

[Bacchus1]

A 1st and Beaulieu is too rich for my blood.

Agreed!

 

[japhi]

No point even discussion trades with Winnipeg, Chevy is completely scared to make any moves. Look at his trade history, the guy is all about middling moves. That team needs a new GM bad.

IMO Winnipeg had a chance to make some moves early on and do a full rebuild - fans would have stuck by while they stock piled picks and lost a bunch of games. No idea why they chose to be middle of the pack, if and when they need to go through some tough times - after 5 or 7 years of making or barely missing the playoffs- it will be interesting to see if the team can still draw full attendance.

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

BTW, just so you don't think I am a dick, I totally support all Canadian teams not called the Leafs or Senators. Every time the Oilers, Canucks, or (I'm embarrassed) the flames have been in the playoffs, I have rooted for them when they don't play the Habs. I was also extremely pissed when the Jets were forced to relocate, because the fans in the Peg are awesome! And, I love the Avro, too ... and was sad that the project was sunk. Although, I spent time in the Peg, and would never want to live there .... but that goes for most Canadian cities, that are too bloody cold ... but Winnipeg brings that all to a new level.

I hope that the Oilers and Jets turn their teams around, and that soon, we have a Stanley Cup playoffs filled with Canadian teams not called the leafs

I appreciate your effort, that is admirable.

Just please don't throw us in the same boat as the Edmonton Oilers. We are not them. We have some solid leaders that give our team some balance. We actually have defenseman that can play the game.

What I ideally want to do is tip the scales just a bit in favour of our future young core that will consist of Schiefle, Trouba, Ehlers, Morrissey, Petan and Bogo. They have a better chance of success than the older core.

What we could really use is the type of trade Calgary made when they traded Niewendyk for Iginla. That would set us up quite nicely for the future. Most of our vets I would keep as they move into more of a supporting cast type of role for the younger core.

 

[Bacchus1]

One of the biggest problems with Winnipeg is that no one wants to live there. Like Edmonton ... and sometimes like Montreal, although we seem to be ok with Euros/Ruskies, because their climate is similar, and we are cosmopolitan. Too many players, for many good reasons, want to live in a non-arctic climate. Personally, I love MTL in the summer, but I am glad I am no longer there in the winters. A friend of mine recently described it as a prison term, which is true if you like outdoor activities like cycling.

I'm glad that recently, partly due to the strengthened dollar, that we have attracted more people to Montreal, and Toronto seems to fair well in this, too. But I wish that the NHL would take in to consideration local taxes in cap hits, so that we could offer competitive salaries.

For Europeans, they love Canada Vs the US, because of our socialist agenda, but everyone has to think about coin at the end of the day, too.

 

[Mario Lemieux fan 66]

A 1st and Beaulieu is too rich for my blood.

I would do that trade. I prefer Bergevin tries something than missing our Stanley Cup window by doing nothing like San Jose, Washington and Vancouver did.

Markov will not be here for much longer and Tampa Bay might became too good for the Habs in the next 2-3 years if theirs Young players reach theirs potential.

Buff add depth at the forward and defense position at the same time, he brings size and grit and the experience of a Stanley cup champion. With him the Habs would be a strong Stanley cup contender.

 

[Natey]

A 1st and Beaulieu is too rich for my blood.

I like Beaulieu better than Tinordi, so that'd probably be my offer. But still - I'd do that trade. I think that makes us an extremely deep team. Injuries would cause zero problems because our depth and when healthy, you have 3 lines that can score frequently and one line that likely has two of the better offensive 4th liners

 

[Brainiac]

We'd have the oldest AND fattest defense in the world.

What's the next trade target? Santa Claus?

 

[Ezpz]

We'd have the oldest AND fattest defense in the world.

What's the next trade target? Santa Claus?

Buff isn't a dman anymore and definitely wouldn't play D here.

 

[Bacchus1]

I would do that trade. I prefer Bergevin tries something than missing our Stanley Cup window by doing nothing like San Jose, Washington and Vancouver did.

Makov would not be here for much longer and Tampa Bay might became too good for the Habs in the next 2-3 years if theirs Young players reach theirs potential.

Buff add depth at the forward and defense position at the same time, he brings size and grit and the experience of a Stanley cup champion. With him the Habs would be a strong Stanley cup contender.

Beaulieu and a 1st is like giving up to 1sts. For a guy with a year and a half on his contract, I think it is too much. Those first could be our for like 7-18 years, if they love playing here. Buff would skip town as soon as his contract is up, unless he sucks and is too slow, in which case we gambled a potential game breaker for a year and a half.

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

One of the biggest problems with Winnipeg is that no one wants to live there. Like Edmonton ... and sometimes like Montreal, although we seem to be ok with Euros/Ruskies, because their climate is similar, and we are cosmopolitan. Too many players, for many good reasons, want to live in a non-arctic climate. Personally, I love MTL in the summer, but I am glad I am no longer there in the winters. A friend of mine recently described it as a prison term, which is true if you like outdoor activities like cycling.

I'm glad that recently, partly due to the strengthened dollar, that we have attracted more people to Montreal, and Toronto seems to fair well in this, too. But I wish that the NHL would take in to consideration local taxes in cap hits, so that we could offer competitive salaries.

For Europeans, they love Canada Vs the US, because of our socialist agenda, but everyone has to think about coin at the end of the day, too.

Attracting free agents was never a way realistic Jets fans thought we would improve. When you look at it, there are very few high profile free agents left, it seems, year after year.

We have to draft well and we have done that. Whatever people say about Chevy you have to give him big points for that. We had the worst prospect pool in the league when the team moved here. Most fans are happy with the path we are on, I think we just need fine tuning.

Also, don't knock that winter. It protects Canada economically.

I live in BC and have seen first hand how runaway foreign investment drives housing prices through the roof and shrinks the middle class. That winter protects canadians from predatory foreign investors. Won't say anymore on this, getting way off topic.

How about Buff for Scherback and a 2015 2nd? Keep Tinordi..

 

[Bacchus1]

Attracting free agents was never a way realistic Jets fans thought we would improve. When you look at it, there are very few high profile free agents left, it seems, year after year.

We have to draft well and we have done that. Whatever people say about Chevy you have to give him big points for that. We had the worst prospect pool in the league when the team moved here. Most fans are happy with the path we are on, I think we just need fine tuning.

Also, don't knock that winter. It protects Canada economically.

I live in BC and have seen first hand how runaway foreign investment drives housing prices through the roof and shrinks the middle class. That winter protects canadians from predatory foreign investors. Won't say anymore on this, getting way off topic.

How about Buff for Scherback and a 2015 2nd? Keep Tinordi..

I love the Canadian middle-class! Pateryn, Nygere, and a 2nd :p Sherbak could be a staple for us for years ... so, if I am our GM, I say: non!

 

[Bacchus1]

BTW, this is off topic, but do you think Tangradi will ever amount to much for us? I'm hoping he regains his draft year form by working out hard with PK, and regaining the Tim Hortons fire in his eyes!

 

[Runner77]

Hello Habs fans...Jets fan coming in peace..

Congrats on your start to the year. You are a legit cup contender and the favourite in the East. Time to talk about that final piece that puts you over the top. If you have Buff, no one will mess with you in a playoff series. Issues with Zdeno Chara? Well, Buff can neutralize that for you.

He can play wing, defence, in front of the net on the power play. He is popular in our room, should be good in yours as well.

I think the Habs, Kings, Bruins and Ducks are all in a unique situtation in which getting him will be decisive in defeating their respective rivals.

Any interest?

Well, lots of contrarian points by your Jets brethren.

I'll start off by saying that maybe I'm a little bias because I've never been super impressed by his effort or his game as a whole (offensive ability, defensive ability, hockey intelligence). Even when he was with Chicago, I thought his success was a result of two things #1) Great coaching (moving him to forward and parking his big frame in front of the net) and #2) Being surrounded by 3+ lines of talent.

I'll admit that once in awhile he'll pinch and look really good as a forward, but his effort and flashes just aren't consistent enough to warrant the ice time he gets in my opinion. Aside from his occasional flashes of speed and the odd dangle down the ice, no one can deny that he's a defensive liability almost every shift he takes.

Tonight he was on the ice for all 4 of Buffalo's goals.

His poor play behind the net and Setoguchi's giveaway resulted in the Sabres the 1st goal. Buff's poor sense of his defensive responsibilities attributed to the 2nd Sabres goal, and ditto for goal #4. (...)

His missed shots are getting more and more atrocious, and his lazy penalties are getting to be more frequent. His giveaways haven't gotten any worse, but not really better either.

(...)

We are not just talking about Buff because of last night's game. I believe he is probably the biggest impediment to the success of the Jets because he IS the culture of the team. This team will not improve with him on the team. I would trade him for a bag of pucks and a few rolls of hockey tape if we had to. The sooner he is gone the better.

Pretty well my thoughts. Someone last night mentioned he's like Alexei Kovalev with the 'on, off', perhaps true. I ****ing hated Alexei 'i'll play when I want to' Kovalev. I don't care how much talent you have, I hate, hate, hate players like that.

Not sure that's Byfuglien, I more so think he just doesn't have it between the ears. He's talented, no doubt, but I just don't see him as a fit here. Then again, maybe he wouldn't agitate me so much if we had a better surrounding cast and his mistakes weren't as costly or noticeable? that's certainly possible.

With that being said, I agree with you, we want fair value, but waiting too long may diminish that. If we trade him this this season/ this offseason a team will have him for a guaranteed 2 years. This is likely the best time to trade him at this point. His trade value may begin diminishing as the years on his contract here are getting smaller and smaller. I hope to see Byfuglien dealt no later than this offseason. If we are going to do it, I think it's the time to do it.

Buff makes all the players around him worse by virtue of his leadership position and his attitude. He sets a horrible example. That is why I say the sooner he is gone the better. Karlsson would be far better for us simply because he would not be in that leadership position.

I've been saying ad nauseum that Buff is a diminishing asset and should be moved.
Perhaps he's declining faster than I anticipated or perhaps he's on a cold streak in terms of his play.
Who knows.

I used to be a Buff fan but by the end of last season I was hoping he would be traded. Over the summer when the picture appeared of a trim Buff and with the added incentive of the Olympics I figured Buff may become the player we all hoped he would become. I was back on the Buff bandwagon!

Wrongo! If it hasn't happened by now it never will.

He is like a virus and infects the team with the Bufflu. We need him gone.

Where are the Byfuglien fans tonight????

(enter crickets chirping)

Same old lazy, sloppy, disinterested Byfuglien, just a different game.

IMO the Jets need to if possible trade Buff at the trade deadline or at the very least before next season. I just don't think this team will ever contend with him as their top defenseman and marquee player. He has a ton of talent, but he plays like the NHL is a rec league and he is the top player. Reckless chances, selfish play, indifference to defense and a huge shadow that influences everything the team tries to do.

If his talent could be reigned in he could be a true #1 defenseman, but how he currently plays IMO will rot a team from the inside out. And at age 28 and after watching it for 2 1/2 seasons I can't see this changing.

Is it just me or does it seem Buff's shooting accuracy has gotten worse ever year he's been here. He shoots high or wide a lot more than I remember.

The guy is a loser, plain and simple. Notice he only goes after guys 1/4 of his weight, and does so with his stick. SOFT AS BUTTER, don't want him on my team

Totally agree, Buff is flat out lazy, throwing a water bottle from the penalty box at the opposition shows he's pretty dumb as well.

Buff has been minimally physical for the last three years. It's a big frustration with him.

Thinking he's going to turn on some switch and change out of nowhere is delusional..


what is that saying, definition of insanity? same thing over and over?

Most of Buff's problems stem from his casual attitude towards everything.

(...)

(...)

I have watched him play 148 regular season games, all his preseason games & about 2/3'rds of the open practices in each preseason. When I watch games, either live or on tv I'm usually with large groups of people & the conversation sways my attention from the game, so I take the time to PVR each game & watch each game a second time.

(...)

He has mental lapses where the smallest of things like tying up his opponents stick in the last minute of play aren't done. That one burned us last year & I believe is the only time in three seasons where Noel has made reference to a particular play as "costing us the game"

He loses track of his defensive responsibilities & abandons the system. His chase behind the net with 4 minutes left in first against the Oilers was horrible. He's in fine position but then decides to chase the puck behind the net, beginning from the opposite side of where the puck was, and ends with him chasing it deep into the far corner to occupy space Pardy was already playing. He gets caught cheating beyond the hash marks on the half boards, falls behind Schultz, doesn't check him, but rather allows a pass directly to Eberle now completely alone to set up Gagne for goal 2. If there's one play that must have irked the team, it was this. One of the worst choices of the season thus far, particularly after the team had just tied things up.

How many blind swats from the blue line have occurred where he's missed the puck entirely? How many attempts to glove out of the air with his eyes where he's going, not where he is? How often does he pass the puck flush to the ice? The answer to all these is rarely. Yes Buff has great instincts, great vision, but his lack of fundamentals for something as simple as passing the puck is atrocious.
(...).

Do people here still honestly think other GMs see him as an elite talent and are willing to give up an elite return on him? Well I guess his talent is elite, but it only shows up half the time.

The Jets will NEVER be a winning team with Byfuglien on the squad. Can't have a "leader" making these bone head plays. Wheeler and Ladd pretty much called him out by name after this one when they said you can't have those turn overs in the slot. Have loved the effort by the team 90% of the time this year but it's only a matter of time before the gamers on the team start to mail it in when Buff isn't held accountable by the coaching staff for his gaffes.

His A$$ should have been on the bench after the first bone head play, never mind the second, but Noel keeps trucking him out there. Well Claude, you've had three years to get defensive responsibility into his head. It's going to be three and out for you and you can blame Big Buff for it!

Unless we can get a 1st round pick AND a top 6 forward or number 4 defenseman for Buff I say wait on a deal .....

Byfuglien doesn't KNOW how to play hockey. Good, natural athlete who somehow, oddly, got fitted into playing this game. There are tons of natural athletes just like him who, we're constantly assured, will be THAT guy, but somehow never is. He's 28 going on 40 with that body of his, and the sooner he's gone the better this team will be.

I've talked to a couple of people who seem to think that when Buff starts to decline it's going to be rapid. I'm not sure about that myself, but if it's true it would be better to trade him sooner rather than later.

All the fancies about Buff are very interesting and really have made me take a second look at him, give him some latitude in my eyes.

However, the cold hard facts still remain:

- He is too inconsistent in his effort level.
- Though he registers 'hits' he does not use his body enough in his own zone (to be a good defender)
- He is aging
- All signs point to him not re signing in Winnipeg

Yes, we could keep Dustin Byfuglien, but he is a declining asset, in terms of what he will be worth in a trade, and IMHO his performance on the ice will quickly start to decline, too.

(...)

I find it a little insulting that you think I am using the media's comments about Dustin Byfuglien as my measure of his play.

Byfuglien, with his size and injury history makes 29 an old 29. I believe he will be on the physical decline sooner rather than later. He has never been in great shape to begin with. These guys who play well into their 30's work EXTREMELY hard for that in the offseason.

(...)

I still believe we get a good young roster player + for Byfuglien this summer. Someone who can jump in and be a part of the young core immediately. The plus would most likely be a draft pick and we all know how highly coveted they are around here

Dustin's interview on Jets TV was rather uninspiring. The guy obviously has no interest in playing forward whatsoever.

http://video.jets.nhl.com/videocenter/console?catid=96&id=631331&lang=en

This is a much more significant potential problem than any of the crap with Kane.

Buff said his goal is to get back on defense as soon as possible.

If Maurice is focused on him playing F, this won't turn out well.

Even more than before, I think Buff will be traded this season, maybe sooner than we thought. This can't really carry on for very long.

I'm hoping this does not drag on all season.

The guy wants to do what he wants to do. Focus on every zone but his own, stay out on long shifts, play the PP, rack up his points. He doesn't want to put the hard work into getting into prime shape, putting the effort into being effective in his own zone.

If you have skill, defense is easy. It's all about effort. Time to move big Buff.

Ahh and to think... if Byfuglien treated his assignments without the puck as more than just a passing fancy, no coach in his right mind would have ever switched him to F, and a second coach wouldn't have kept him there.

Byfuglien did this to himself.

A sizeable Jet fan base sees a lot of flaws in Big Buff. He's not just slow, but a guy who doesn't want to play forward (so much for his positional flexibility) and who commits a lot of mental lapses, not to mention that he has that Kovalev on/off switch that Montreal fans have loathed in so many other players.

Outside of his size, I don't know if the bad habits, questionable attitude, nonchalance and apparent inability or indifference about playing within a system makes him a fit on the Habs. The guy has a rogue approach and seems very difficult to reel in.

Pretty clear that the Jets have to move him, given that there are indications he likely won't return as a Jet once his current deal expires.

Also, your glowing pitch has left out all of the irritants above. You know better. The guy is a bitter pill. He can destroy from within as much as he can be lethal from without. Sounds like a high maintenance guy we have seen more than our share of.

He may be someone to consider at the trading deadline, for some team who will make moar size its principal priority and have to deal with him and his baggage for another season at his salary relative to his 2nd and possibly 3rd line production he brings as a forward. If he was becoming UFA this season, would have been far more valuable as a short fix playoff commodity. That 2nd year will be a huge headache for any team taking him on.

Bergevin has done everything to instill the type of environment within the Habs, that prioritizes consistent hard work, good attitude and team work. Bufyglien is the antithesis of all of that, despite some of the assets he brings to the game. At his salary and given what the Jets are likely to expect for him, I think we can do a lot better with a comparable in terms of salary and a much lesser headache than Buff represents.

 

[Bacchus1]

Well, lots of contrarian points by your Jets brethren.

Good research. That is my feeling with Buff, too. Not a total head-case like Kane, but someone who's bark is worse than his bite. He could be worth some sacrificeable parts, but not worth top prospects.

I'd prefer Ladd, or as some say, Wheeler, but I am not to sold on Wheeler either, as his commit doesn't seem to be that high, either.

I don't get pro athletes with no-commit. You play to win ... that is the point of sports. I always got frustrated at players that didn't give their all, and was in awe when I met someone with more than me.

Ladd has that edge ... I think, from the limited view I have had of him. There are some professional scouts on this board (Hi Grant et al), and they know way more than me, but what I do see of Ladd in my limited view, because I have other things to do in my life than watch a thousand games. I wish I could watch more ... but I digress.

 

[Runner77]

Good research. That is my feeling with Buff, too. Not a total head-case like Kane, but someone who's bark is worse than his bite. He could be worth some sacrificeable parts, but not worth top prospects.

Thanks. Went through over 40 pages of Jets fan pages. Of course, there are also those who like Buff, but the point of it was to rebut the OP's glowing account.

A piece by Winnipeg Free Press columnist Gary Lawless from July 2014, encapsulates the dichotomy that Buff embodies and the downside he represents:

It's impossible for the coach to preach system and puck management when one of his minutes leaders refuses to buy in. It's time to stop thinking about Byfuglien's potential and look at his reality. He's a hazard.

But Lord, can he take your breath away, many will argue. He sure can, but the risk outweighs the reward when the present and future of this team are taken into account.

Last season, it was easy to blame Byfuglien's woes on his weight and lack of fitness. It was a mirage that I bought into. Playing in the neighbourhood of 300 pounds doesn't help, but fitness or a lack thereof is not what primarily holds Byfuglien back. It's his refusal to play responsible hockey.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/columnists/time-to-dust-dustin-239005421.html?device=mobile

 

[TopTenPlayz]

Let me guess this straight, you want Tinner who's projected to be a Top 4 D and Scherback who's projected to be a 60 pts player and is having a dynamic sophomore year in the WHL and is MTL's best prospect for a guy who's not good enough to hold a regular position on D and is consistently shifted around between forwards and defence and only put up points because of his slap shot?

You tryin to gyp us by taking advantage of our position in the standings? Look at what Bergevin gave up for Vanek (who's a way better player than Buff) at last year's deadline....

 

[Analyzer*]

Byfuglien would be acquired to be a RW.

6'5, 270lbs+ RW who would be one of, if not they fastest player on the team. When he hits someone, they're hurt. We don't really know what that is, as our players rarely hit and they seem to never be able to steamroll someone.

You can go through any team and see parts of players that aren't very good and then decide that a certain player isn't worth much.

 

[Scintillating10]

Your going to go deep, very deep in the playoffs so I understand reluctance to part with roster players.

However, that means higher end prospects will be required to get a deal done.

Tinordi and a healthy Scherback?

You wish!

 

[Runner77]

Let me guess this straight, you want Tinner who's projected to be a Top 4 D and Scherback who's projected to be a 60 pts player and is having a dynamic sophomore year in the WHL and is MTL's best prospect for a guy who's not good enough to hold a regular position on D and is consistently shifted around between forwards and defence and only put up points because of his slap shot?

You tryin to gyp us by taking advantage of our position in the standings? Look at what Bergevin gave up for Vanek (who's a way better player than Buff) at last year's deadline....

Diduseethat? Yesudid. Isawittoo. Buff is not a fit for us. WPG is desperate to move him, he's a depreciable asset and he's not worth what he's getting paid. He may find a taker at the deadline but doubt it's going to be us.

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

Good research. That is my feeling with Buff, too. Not a total head-case like Kane, but someone who's bark is worse than his bite. He could be worth some sacrificeable parts, but not worth top prospects.

I'd prefer Ladd, or as some say, Wheeler, but I am not to sold on Wheeler either, as his commit doesn't seem to be that high, either.

I don't get pro athletes with no-commit. You play to win ... that is the point of sports. I always got frustrated at players that didn't give their all, and was in awe when I met someone with more than me.

Ladd has that edge ... I think, from the limited view I have had of him. There are some professional scouts on this board (Hi Grant et al), and they know way more than me, but what I do see of Ladd in my limited view, because I have other things to do in my life than watch a thousand games. I wish I could watch more ... but I digress.

Fans are often tough with their own players in their forum.

Even in this board, if someone wants the perception of Habs fans on our own player, they will see maybe except for Galchenyuk, there's no player who doesn't get their share of criticism.

DD gets bashed a lot here.
Plekanec has his part of haters.
Pacioretty's commitment is not always there.
Eller is a stupid player with no IQ for some.
Even Subban and Price gets criticize.

Not every players has to be sweethearts in a hockey team. They just need to come out strong when it matters the most which is in the playoffs. Seguin, P. Kane, M. Richards, J. Carter, Penner etc etc.. all had their struggles off-ice yet their are all cup winners and all contributed in their cup run.

Speaking of players that doesn't commit every games. Even guys like Getzlaf, Malkin, E. Staal are known for being lazy at times.. then again, when the playoffs arrives, they will commit for sure.