Rumor: In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) XLII

[Freudian]

I love Homer. He doesn't seem to have any restraint so he does a lot of moves. Half of them make no sense and a few of them are brilliant. NHL is more entertaining with him.

 

[hockeyfish]

I love Homer. He doesn't seem to have any restraint so he does a lot of moves. Half of them make no sense and a few of them are brilliant. NHL is more entertaining with him.

Entertaining, yes. But he is also front and center at the reasons why the NHL is headed full steam to another lockout. And unfortunately, I think that may be the best case scenario.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

I love Homer. He doesn't seem to have any restraint so he does a lot of moves. Half of them make no sense and a few of them are brilliant. NHL is more entertaining with him.

He's like that kid on the playground that thinks every toy is his by divine right. "Lecavalier is on the market? Well I don't need any centers but I must have him!"... fast forward to last week; "Clearly is on the market? Well I'll be damned if he goes to another team than Philly!".

I'm half expecting an announcement in the coming days where he says that the Flyers will be seceding from the union and claiming their divine right at the helm of the NHL and anyone that wants to take the Cup away from them will have to deal with the decrepit bodies of Pronger, Hatcher and Lindros.

 

[Pokecheque]

I love Homer. He doesn't seem to have any restraint so he does a lot of moves. Half of them make no sense and a few of them are brilliant. NHL is more entertaining with him.

Agreed, though it's clear it's not just Holmgren who is behind this but Snider. Under previous GMs the Flyboys were just as impetuous.

Entertaining, yes. But he is also front and center at the reasons why the NHL is headed full steam to another lockout. And unfortunately, I think that may be the best case scenario.

Not necessarily. Bettman's the one who keeps feeding cash to sinking franchises in failed markets despite record revenues league-wide. And Lamoriello's the one offering contracts when the Devils were waist-deep in debt.

Plus: If anything, the Flyers helped the Hawks and Kings win the Cup, while they have been in a slow and steady decline. They're not really benefiting from throwing around money like Vince Young at the strip club. They may not be helping the situation, but I wouldn't say they're front and center.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Tiny Tim coming back? Hopefully he chooses the panthers over the flames.

 

[S E P H]

Tiny Tim coming back? Hopefully he chooses the panthers over the flames.

I want him to come back and destroy the league just to piss off all the butthurt fans on HFboards.

 

[member 116861]

I just want him to bodycheck Henrik again.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

i want him to come back and destroy the league just to piss off all the butthurt fans on hfboards.

this!

I just want him to bodycheck Henrik again.

and this

 

[Foppa2118]

Did you read the first line of that post? "What happens if both leave AND we trade away Sgarbossa?" As in a question of what you think should happen in that scenario of Downie and Stastny not re-signing with the team. My explaination was setting up the possibility, which has some high probability that we don't re-sign Stastny and Downie. Stastny might look for a guaranteed top 6 center role and Downie might want too much money for his role. Both are fairly likely to happen. So, if we are going to trade away depth you have to be sure that you can survive without those players coming back or have a very good idea that you will re-sign those players.

I would say the odds of not overpaying for a UFA are pretty low. How many bargain UFA contracts are out there... PAP, Hossa (manipulated contract)... that is about it. While 2nd/3rd liners like Clarkson and Clowe signed for 5.25 and 4.85 per in this year's free agency period.

I guess here's more or less the way I view that line of thought in relation to what we're talking about.

Like I mentioned that line of thought involves a lot of worst case scenarios, or bad scenarios. You're right Stastny and Downie could both easily leave, and they might not get a return for Staz at the deadline. The chances at getting a great value contract like PAP every UFA period is pretty low. Hishon and the entire Avs forward prospect pool might not pan out. Sgarbossa might turn into a very good 2nd line winger. Klesla could walk at the end of the year, miss more than his usual 15-20 games, or just demand too much money. Tanguay may turn into David Jones in a year or so. They may go 2-3 yeas without being able to find a fair deal ($4M or under) for a decent 2nd line winger. They may not be able to find a decent trade in that same 2-3 years for a 2nd line winger.

All of these things have a chance at happening, and some like you say might have a better chance at happening than not.

However it's not about just one of those things happening, making the whole trade a bad one. The way I view it, in order for them to get burnt somehow, or regret moving Sgarbossa ALL of them have to happen, and the odds of that are very slim IMO. That's basically been my whole point in this discussion, and why I tried to point out all their options.

Also the spot you're worried about having to fill in the future is generally one of lesser importance being a 2nd or 3rd line winger. This is generally one of the easier spots to fill in a lineup. The Avs also have very good depth at forward, and are set up very well cap wise with Duchene and Landy's deal for the future. Even if they add an over paid winger like many contending teams do, they are set up to be able to absorb that.

As I mentioned all of those things above have to happen for them to get burnt losing Sgarbossa, and if they can make one of the scenario's work (i.e. Hishon, Tanguay's play doesn't slip, they find a reasonable $3-4M winger that they can afford via UFA, find another forward in trade like they have a history of doing, Klesla re-signs and plays a solid role for the next 3 years taking over for Hejda, then it's worth it IMO.

I feel pretty confident that they will be ok under at least one of these scenarios, and worst comes to worst, under the very unlikely situations that NONE of the scenarios pan out, they still have a very good group of young forwards so the actual damage done is not that strong to begin with.

 

[PAZ]

I was really expecting Thomas to the Flyers, I still hope he goes there.

 

[Foppa2118]

On that Flyers note, I just noticed Mez hasn't been cleared yet to play from his shoulder surgery. He says he's ready, but his physical is this week I believe. Probably first day of camp or something, so it'll be soon.

Wonder if that's why rumored talks with the Avs have started up.

I wouldn't be upset with them bringing in Mez. At least it'll be something. There's better options IMO, but depending on the price I could be ok with it.

I always wondered if the Avs and other teams were trying to bluff their lack of interest in Mez until the very last second with hopes of stealing away Coburn. Guess we'll see if Philly calls everyones bluff, and finds a taker for Mez at the last second.

 

[Frenchy]

If Thomas plays again I'd say he goes to a team that has a chance at winning a Cup, maybe the Flyers?

Not sure about a SC contender , but i know he wants to be a number 1 goalie on a team .

 

[InjuredChoker]

Chris Johnston ‏@reporterchris 27 min
Chuck Kobasew signs PTO with #pens. He was among those that worked out with Sidney Crosby in Vail, Colo., recently.

 

[Avs71]

Chris Johnston ‏@reporterchris 27 min
Chuck Kobasew signs PTO with #pens. He was among those that worked out with Sidney Crosby in Vail, Colo., recently.

I hope he sticks. He always worked hard. Unfortunately, like most role players in Colorado over the last few years, too much was expected of him.

Pietrangelo talks have broken off.

“Talks between the Blues and Alex’s camp have broken off for now,†Blues GM Doug Armstrong said via the team’s website.

Makes me happy as an Avs fan that a team in the division is missing their best player, but at the same time I feel bad for their fans. Imagine if it was Duchene instead of O'Reilly who held out.

 

[RockLobster]

I hope he sticks. He always worked hard. Unfortunately, like most role players in Colorado over the last few years, too much was expected of him.

If he sticks, I imagine he'll have a nice season (or possibly more) there...playing with Crosby just seems to improve one's stats.

 

[Taak19]

I hope he sticks. He always worked hard. Unfortunately, like most role players in Colorado over the last few years, too much was expected of him.

Pietrangelo talks have broken off.



Makes me happy as an Avs fan that a team in the division is missing their best player, but at the same time I feel bad for their fans. Imagine if it was Duchene instead of O'Reilly who held out.

At the time people probably would have been feeling a bit different considering they were coming off seasons completely 180 of each other.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Avs don't play Blues until Nov 14th. Doubt it would effect that far.

They are still good team without A-Pie. Not contender but good.

 

[RockLobster]

At the time people probably would have been feeling a bit different considering they were coming off seasons completely 180 of each other.

I imagine that Duchene wouldn't get the unnecessary hate that O'Reilly gets. But alas, we don't have the ability to know how that would have played out.

 

[henchman21]

I imagine that Duchene wouldn't get the unnecessary hate that O'Reilly gets. But alas, we don't have the ability to know how that would have played out.

I'd bet that any player that took the same route would get the same level of flack. Signing a 2 year deal in the KHL was a big slap in the face.

 

[Avs71]

Avs don't play Blues until Nov 14th. Doubt it would effect that far.

They are still good team without A-Pie. Not contender but good.

It will still benefit if he misses a chunk of games, and the Blues lose a handful. It'll be interesting to see how he plays if he misses all of training camp. Blues fans weren't happy with his play coming out of the lockout, figuring it was due to not playing, as well as not having a training camp. Well, looks like this year could be a repeat.

I do think he will be signed by this time next week.

I imagine that Duchene wouldn't get the unnecessary hate that O'Reilly gets. But alas, we don't have the ability to know how that would have played out.

I don't mean to uncover this dead horse, just wanted to point out that at that point in time, Duchene wasn't favored a whole lot. If that happened, you would have to go back before he signed and extremely team friendly deal, as well as had his "breakout" season. I would imagine if the roles were reversed, and O'Reilly signed immediately while Duchene headed for the KHL, sat out, and then had an average season, people would be calling Duchene selfish/entitled brat.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Reportedly St Louis and Pietrangelo already have agreed on an 8 year term and now are just playing chicken over the salary. So all this over ~1M per year in salary is ridiculous. It really bothers me that Newport has a reputation of conducting business this way and they usually end up getting what they want in the long run. They don't care how much it hurts a player to sit out, especially in the case of Pietrangelo's Olympic bid. Thank goodness we don't have to deal with them with Duchene, Landy, MacK.

 

[RockLobster]

I don't buy it. Duchene being a "life long fan" of the team would give him a lot of leeway in terms of fans being mad at him for holding out.

Or, likewise, if it was revealed that O'Reilly was a "life long fan" of the team then I don't think he'd have gotten as much hate as he got.

But in the end, what's done is done. I don't think both sides, O'Reilly's camp and the Avalanche (well the old regime) believe that what happened was "best for everyone" involved. If PL/EL had been willing to budge a little on a contract, O'Reilly may have gotten signed for about 4-4.5M, likewise, I don't think that O'Reilly's camp handled things as well as they could have.

I still think that WITH O'Reilly the Avs have a better chance of ultimately competing for and winning a Stanley Cup than without him, and that's all that really matters.

 

[InjuredChoker]

It will still benefit if he misses a chunk of games, and the Blues lose a handful. It'll be interesting to see how he plays if he misses all of training camp. Blues fans weren't happy with his play coming out of the lockout, figuring it was due to not playing, as well as not having a training camp. Well, looks like this year could be a repeat.

I do think he will be signed by this time next week.

To me it seemed like he took more risks offensively. Maybe trying too boost his off. numbers in order to get a big deal or something.. Didn't certainly watch all the games but that is my impression.

 

[henchman21]

I still don't think that Avs management was that in the wrong. Could they have budged a bit, yeah. Should ROR have been paid more than Duchene, like he was asking? No. Duchene had proven a lot more, and players similar to and some better than ROR took lesser deals to get on the ice. ROR had one good year and two years where he played like an average to above average 3rd line center, one good year shouldn't equate to a long term big money deal.

ROR took a hardline stance every bit as much as the Avs did... and really ROR took the hardest line stance of any player that I can remember since the days of Yashin and the Bulin Wall holding out for full seasons.

If you look at the player's that took bridge deals you see some really high quality players. Subban's deal was unsurdly low for what he provided, but he took what was offered and earned the big contract he will get on the ice. Giroux took a 3 year bridge deal, and is now getting paid. Duchene took a reasonable deal because he knew he had to earn that big contract (which he did). This year we are going to have Kadri, Couturier, and Stepan (when he signs) all doing the same thing.

 

[AslanRH]

I imagine that Duchene wouldn't get the unnecessary hate that O'Reilly gets. But alas, we don't have the ability to know how that would have played out.

For me it is not "hate" at all, but that I no longer feel he is one of those players who I would be overly upset to lose. PL and Sherman were somewhat to blame for the situation, but signing a 2 year deal elsewhere, and then holding out once the season started rubbed me and many others the wrong way.

I now just see him as a very talented player that is great to have on the roster, but who is no longer one of the heart and soul parts of the core like I had thought he was.

Right now I sense he is no longer seen as a vital part of the core going forward, whether its by his choice or the Avs will be the question.