Rumor: In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) LXXVI

[chet1926]

I can see the same being true on the other side. While the value is quite fair, nether side really accomplishes it's long term goals.

This is how I feel as well. I think both teams would pull the trigger on that deal, but it's not ideal for either team and they are hoping they can get a better deal with someone else.

 

[JoemAvs]

My pet theory is that a Yandle-O'Reilly swap is kinda the last resort, a safety deal that Sakic has on the table.

That thought has also already crossed my mind.

But it reminds me too much of those "We will get married if we are both single on our 40th birthday" backup deals.

Those kind of "pacts" never come to fruition and were absolutely last resort kind of deal in the first place.

And funnily enough one party is usually left hanging and remains solo while the other enjoys married life with a billionaire .


Lets just hope that Roy / Sakic won't be the ones left hanging.

 

[Bender]

We'll see what they do. I will guarantee right now they are not trading assets for Sekera so everyone needs to let that go. That's not how the Avs operate.

You're right, we will see. I think a lot will depend on if they move ROR before the deadline or not. If they DO and end up getting a low 1st round pick as part of the package, I could see them making that kind of deal with Carolina. But at this point, we don't even know if they're interested in Sekera...maybe he's not the guy they want.

Roy has said no rentals and that they belive in building a foundation. If Franson basically got a first we aren't talking cheap deals here. Plus it's a lot to assume Sekera agrees to sign here. The proportion of time that's spent talking about him on here is just really out of whack. I think there is a big difference between a high second and a late second and he's not going to go for just a second and some trash anyway. But whatever, we'll find out in two weeks.

He said he believes in building a foundation but at the same time, when he was hired he talked about Iginla wanting to play for Pittsburgh and he mentioned that he one day hoped that they Avs would be that kind of destination as well.

I don't think it's as cut and dry as "oh, we don't operate that way". I think it's more that the Avs won't give up significant assets to acquire a rental that will test the market 4-5 months from now. However, if they like Sekera and have a 25th overall pick in their back pocket and he's willing to come on board long-term, it's certainly not impossible. Would depend on how far out of the playoffs they are and how they deal with the RoR situation.

 

[chet1926]

Yeah I see it as that way for both clubs. Either club would rather sell off their asset for something better long-term, but if they can't get what they want by say the draft... then this deal becomes more of a reality. Both teams are taking the same risk, but filling big needs on their roster.

ROR + a defensive prospect (say Geertsen) for Yandle + forward prospect (say Dauphin) seems like a solid basis for a deal.

If we were trying to get a prospect in the deal, I'd rather see us go after Dvorak because at least he is a winger. It's tough to tell if his numbers this year are a product of playing with some good players (Marner, Domi) or if he is starting to get better.

 

[henchman21]

If we were trying to get a prospect in the deal, I'd rather see us go after Dvorak because at least he is a winger. It's tough to tell if his numbers this year are a product of playing with some good players (Marner, Domi) or if he is starting to get better.

Dvorak is a much improved player, but I think his numbers are inflated. They are about the same level of prospect... I prefer Dauphin, but it is splitting hairs.

The reasoning of adding prospects to a deal like this is to lessen the risk for both sides not for value. Both sides get a prospect with decent upside that backfill some of their pool's weakness.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

Yeah I see it as that way for both clubs. Either club would rather sell off their asset for something better long-term, but if they can't get what they want by say the draft... then this deal becomes more of a reality. Both teams are taking the same risk, but filling big needs on their roster.

ROR + a defensive prospect (say Geertsen) for Yandle + forward prospect (say Dauphin) seems like a solid basis for a deal.

I see no reason to add the prospects in, and would prefer not to...

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

From ESPN's chat with all their insiders, this is Pierre Lebrun...

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/12335773/live-chat-feb-17-1-pm-et-#espnnhllive

Pierre LeBrun
So for d-men, whether it's Petry or Michalek or lessers like Hannan or Hejda.... all possiblities for Pitt

Hejda's name is now out there from Friedman, McKenzie, and Lebrun. I think it's clear the Avs are taking calls on him.

 

[chet1926]

Dvorak is a much improved player, but I think his numbers are inflated. They are about the same level of prospect... I prefer Dauphin, but it is splitting hairs.

The reasoning of adding prospects to a deal like this is to lessen the risk for both sides not for value. Both sides get a prospect with decent upside that backfill some of their pool's weakness.

It really is splitting hairs they're fairly equal players. The only reason I'd say Dvorak is that he is a winger, which is what we need badly.

I figured most of Dvorak's production was a product of playing with two high end prospects, I just don't see much of the OHL.

 

[Foppa2118]

From ESPN's chat with all their insiders, this is Pierre Lebrun...

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/12335773/live-chat-feb-17-1-pm-et-#espnnhllive

Hejda's name is now out there from Friedman, McKenzie, and Lebrun. I think it's clear the Avs are taking calls on him.

Or teams are calling on him after seeing the Avs position in the standings.

 

[Foppa2118]

Around forums Yandle is probably a bit underrated defensively. That isn't saying he is good, but people like to paint a picture that he is horrendous defensively. He is probably average, nothing less, nothing more. With a good defensive partner he is passable on a top pairing. Where Yandle really excels is moving the puck. Which really helps him defensively because he doesn't get trapped in his own zone as much to show his weaknesses as much (when he does get trapped you can see his shortcomings). Putting him with EJ would give him a puck mover next to him as well (something he hasn't had much of throughout his career) and somebody who can cover for him defensively. It wouldn't be the best pairing in the league by any stretch, but it would be a legitimate top pairing.

Yandle's biggest contribution to the team might be on the PP where he is excellent. He would improve the PP overnight.

I agree with this. I think he's close to average defensively, though he has his lapses occasionally. For comparisons sake, he's better than Barrie defensively now, and likely always will be IMO given he doesn't get muscled around as much physically, and has some snarl to his game every now and then.

5 on 5, Barrie's the better puck rusher, but Yandle's the better outlet passer. On the PP is where Yandle shines though. He can "run" a PP very effectively, and this is something neither Barrie or EJ can do particularly well.

I'll probably be ok with him in trade to this point because they've missed the boat on their better two way options, but it worries me having to defensively suspect D men on both of your top 4 pairings. The Avs can't waste money and a spot in the top four on someone that isn't good defensively and offensively. Too much of one area doesn't address the problem and takes up one of the few spots they have open to fill.

I'd wonder though if the Avs might not put Yandle with EJ. Going with a three line approach the way I thought they might with Myers, because Roy was so complimentary of that strategy by LA. In this scenery though they'd have one offensive D man who's a lefty, and they'd just fill out the group around the three.

Bigras - EJ
Yandle - Stuart
Hejda - Barrie

They re-sign Hejda for cheap on a 1-2 year deal and pair him with Barrie in a lesser role where he doesn't get worn down over the course of the season. Bigras and EJ develop into their shutdown combo of sorts.

Only problem is I'd be very worried about is Yandle leaving at this point, and he's also going to command a heck of a lot of money as a UFA. He and his agent must know that Philly will probably give him $7M. Not sure the Avs would want to match that.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Or teams are calling on him after seeing the Avs position in the standings.

Possibly, but with 3 Insiders (quite frankly, the 3 I put the most trust in) throwing his name out there, I think it's pretty clear the Avs are thinking about using him as bait for an asset.

I certainly hope they're open to it.

 

[hockeyfish]

Possibly, but with 3 Insiders (quite frankly, the 3 I put the most trust in) throwing his name out there, I think it's pretty clear the Avs are thinking about using him as bait for an asset.

I certainly hope they're open to it.

To me, the decision comes down to how much we can get. A 3rd plus a minor prospect is the min. I would take. Otherwise, it's just not worth it.

I do think, unless he hits a wall here soon, that he should be able to return that much, if not a full on 2nd.

 

[Foppa2118]

Possibly, but with 3 Insiders (quite frankly, the 3 I put the most trust in) throwing his name out there, I think it's pretty clear the Avs are thinking about using him as bait for an asset.

I certainly hope they're open to it.

I definitely agree there's some smoke there when three of the top insiders mention him, but both McKenzie and Friedman have basically alluded to the fact that they can't get anything out of Colorado, and usually their info on them comes from other teams. That might suggest the rumors allude to the other teams interest and not that the Avs are shopping him. Which makes sense because teams for sure would be calling on him to see if he's available given the Avs standings, and him being a UFA.

I think it could go either way with Hejda. I know getting back a 2nd or something would be nice, but I'm surprised they're not looking to re-sign him as insurance. Staal's gone, Methot's gone, Myers is gone, Kulikov seemingly isn't an option any more. They're dangerously running a risk of not improving the blueline, and if they lose Hejda, they'd probably need two good D men anyway, because they need one right now.

Hejda's made it known he'd really like to come back in Eurolanche interviews. Seems as though they could get him fairly cheap on both price and term. Re-sign him for 1-2 years at 2.5-2.8M or so, and if they are able to find a good D man in trade or UFA, he'll get bumped down the lineup and force out Guenin and/or Holden. It's a win/win.

 

[henchman21]

Hejda's name floating around means there is interest and the Avs are not outright rejecting it. If it was outright getting rejected, his name wouldn't be coming up. That doesn't mean he will get moved, but means there are at least talks.

Hejda is probably the 3rd or 4th option for many teams out there, so after teams lose out on Petry, Sekera, Michalek, and maybe Polak... teams will circle back around to the Avs. 3rd + prospect seems pretty reasonable to me, and if demand spikes like it normally does on deadline day, I could see a 2nd.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

I definitely agree there's some smoke there when three of the top insiders mention him, but both McKenzie and Friedman have basically alluded to the fact that they can't get anything out of Colorado, and usually their info on them comes from other teams. That might suggest the rumors allude to the other teams interest and not that the Avs are shopping him. Which makes sense because teams for sure would be calling on him to see if he's available given the Avs standings, and him being a UFA.

I think it could go either way with Hejda. I know getting back a 2nd or something would be nice, but I'm surprised they're not looking to re-sign him as insurance. Staal's gone, Methot's gone, Myers is gone, Kulikov seemingly isn't an option any more. They're dangerously running a risk of not improving the blueline, and if they lose Hejda, they'd probably need two good D men anyway, because they need one right now.

Hejda's made it known he'd really like to come back in Eurolanche interviews. Seems as though they could get him fairly cheap on both price and term. Re-sign him for 1-2 years at 2.5-2.8M or so, and if they are able to find a good D man in trade or UFA, he'll get bumped down the lineup and force out Guenin and/or Holden. It's a win/win.

I just don't see what re-signing Hejda does. He's slowed down for 2 years in a row, and he's not getting any younger. Move him now for a draft pick or a prospect that may be able to help soon. He's not going to be here when this team wins a Cup. Turn him into a future asset. That's what good teams do.

There's plenty of more options on defense than the ones you listed.

 

[lonelybadger]

Hejda's name floating around means there is interest and the Avs are not outright rejecting it. If it was outright getting rejected, his name wouldn't be coming up. That doesn't mean he will get moved, but means there are at least talks.

Hejda is probably the 3rd or 4th option for many teams out there, so after teams lose out on Petry, Sekera, Michalek, and maybe Polak... teams will circle back around to the Avs. 3rd + prospect seems pretty reasonable to me, and if demand spikes like it normally does on deadline day, I could see a 2nd.

The best case for Hejda in terms of Value would be the eastern teams and one of Kings/Ducks getting Sekera, Petry, Michalek, forcing the left over team (kings/ducks) to pay up a 2nd for him

 

[DrJenniferHanson]

Look at London's W/L record with Domi away, and the PP rates with Domi and without Domi. Domi receives a tonne of undeserved credit for London.

 

[tucker3434]

I agree with this. I think he's close to average defensively, though he has his lapses occasionally. For comparisons sake, he's better than Barrie defensively now, and likely always will be IMO given he doesn't get muscled around as much physically, and has some snarl to his game every now and then.

5 on 5, Barrie's the better puck rusher, but Yandle's the better outlet passer. On the PP is where Yandle shines though. He can "run" a PP very effectively, and this is something neither Barrie or EJ can do particularly well.

I'll probably be ok with him in trade to this point because they've missed the boat on their better two way options, but it worries me having to defensively suspect D men on both of your top 4 pairings. The Avs can't waste money and a spot in the top four on someone that isn't good defensively and offensively. Too much of one area doesn't address the problem and takes up one of the few spots they have open to fill.

I'd wonder though if the Avs might not put Yandle with EJ. Going with a three line approach the way I thought they might with Myers, because Roy was so complimentary of that strategy by LA. In this scenery though they'd have one offensive D man who's a lefty, and they'd just fill out the group around the three.

Bigras - EJ
Yandle - Stuart
Hejda - Barrie

They re-sign Hejda for cheap on a 1-2 year deal and pair him with Barrie in a lesser role where he doesn't get worn down over the course of the season. Bigras and EJ develop into their shutdown combo of sorts.

Only problem is I'd be very worried about is Yandle leaving at this point, and he's also going to command a heck of a lot of money as a UFA. He and his agent must know that Philly will probably give him $7M. Not sure the Avs would want to match that.

Even if Bigras is ready, I doubt we throw him to the wolves on the first pairing. Balanced pairings or not, EJ's line will take those tough minutes. You could swap Bigras and Hejda, but I don't know that you'd want 20 year old Bigras to have to be the defensively responsible partner of a pairing.

If we trade for Yandle, we'll pay him. $7m is a lot, but considering our need, it makes sense. We can afford to overpay if it would finally fix the defense.

 

[Foppa2118]

I just don't see what re-signing Hejda does. He's slowed down for 2 years in a row, and he's not getting any younger. Move him now for a draft pick or a prospect that may be able to help soon. He's not going to be here when this team wins a Cup. Turn him into a future asset. That's what good teams do.

There's plenty of more options on defense than the ones you listed.

What it does is push Guenin and Holden out of a healthy roster, and give them insurance for not getting worse if they miss out on a top D.

He's slowed down a tad, but we're talking about re-signing him and playing him in a lesser role. As it is now he's better than anyone on the Avs in his top line role. Wouldn't it make sense that he'd be better than anyone below him in their role?

Also, I'm not seeing a lot of great options. Outside Sekera as UFA what is there? There's a soon to be 34 year old Paul Martin, and Ehrhoff who turned the Avs down for a chance at a cup, when they actually looked like a good team. The Pens are probably keeping one of those guys, and the other might not want to leave the east coast. There's Mike Green who I'd pass rather quickly on.

After that, you've got a bunch of guys who if you threw into a top line role on the Avs, I'm not really sure how much, if any better they'd be than Hejda. Guys like Jackman, Beauchemenin, Michalek, Franson, and Regehr. Some of them would likely cost more than Hejda too.

Only guy I see outside of Sekera as a UFA that really makes sense is Boychuk, and he's probably gonna cost more than he's worth, and the Isles probably re-sign him anyway.

As for trade, the only obvious options are Yandle, and maybe Emelin or Buff. Those guys seem D men teams might be willing to move. After that it's a guessing game of who the Avs might be able to pry away from someone. Mabye they find someone good, but when you don't see a lot of hopeful targets, that's why keeping Hejda for cheap as insurance might make sense.

 

[tigervixxxen]

The temptation is just too great to keep things as is with Hejda still around. He plays his best with EJ, it would fall back to that. Holden is never getting pushed out, Guenin as 7/8 is a possibility.

Realistically it's this

X-EJ
Stuart-Barrie
Holden-Redmond
Y-Guenin

X is our upgrade obviously, Y could be Bigras or Siemens making the team but having to earn trust to move up.

 

[henchman21]

Oduya should be added to that list.

IMO there are a lot of better options out there than Hejda for next season. Keeping him around is only a crutch at this point.

 

[hockeyfish]

The temptation is just too great to keep things as is with Hejda still around. He plays his best with EJ, it would fall back to that. Holden is never getting pushed out, Guenin as 7/8 is a possibility.

Eh, I don't know. Their moves (and attempted moves) during the off-season kind of pointed at at least a diminished role for Hejda, if not an all out replacement for him. If they decide to keep him for cheap, I doubt t's will be to do nothing and run him out their on the top pairing again.

 

[henchman21]

Eh, I don't know. Their moves (and attempted moves) during the off-season kind of pointed at at least a diminished role for Hejda, if not an all out replacement for him. If they decide to keep him for cheap, I doubt t's will be to do nothing and run him out their on the top pairing again.

They didn't have to pull the trigger on going higher for UFAs or paying slightly more on trades because Hejda was a fall back option. Maybe if they didn't have him, they would have pulled the trigger on other moves...

 

[tigervixxxen]

Eh, I don't know. Their moves (and attempted moves) during the off-season kind of pointed at at least a diminished role for Hejda, if not an all out replacement for him. If they decide to keep him for cheap, I doubt t's will be to do nothing and run him out their on the top pairing again.

Yeah that's logical but what's realistic?

 

[tucker3434]

The temptation is just too great to keep things as is with Hejda still around. He plays his best with EJ, it would fall back to that. Holden is never getting pushed out, Guenin as 7/8 is a possibility.

My great hope is a 3rd pairing of Holden-Stuart. Kind of sad that's what I hope for, but those guys will obviously be on the opening night roster. At least bust them down to 3rd line. If we try to open another season with a top pairing of Stuart-EJ, it's going to be another long season.