Rumor: In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) LXV

[JLo217]

The thing is, he isn't exactly a top-notch talent. His numbers sky rocketed this past season for one reason and one reason only: Johnny Gaudreau. He was simply average during his other seasons of college hockey. Now, he may turn into a legitimate top 6 forward, or become a bottom 6'er, or just an AHL forward, nobody knows, but he didn't exactly light up college hockey on his own.

With that being said, do we really want this guy? We should know more than anyone else what a player with contract demands looks like having Ryan O'Reilly on this team. What if he's the exact same way? I surely don't want to deal with that

His first 15 games of the year were actually not with Johnny Hockey at all. He was on a different line that he was carrying with 21 points in 15 games.

 

[Avs_19]

What a ridiculous opinion... to start you can never have too many good players. Not to mention the fact that you automatically assume McGinn is better than Hayes before Hayes plays a second in the NHL.

Hayes will likely be better than McGinn in the next two years imo.... and if you can get him for free than you damn well better care.

Did you just question him saying McGinn is better than Hayes and then turn around and say Hayes will likely be better than McGinn, even though he has never played a professional game?

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

The thing is, he isn't exactly a top-notch talent. His numbers sky rocketed this past season for one reason and one reason only: Johnny Gaudreau. He was simply average during his other seasons of college hockey. Now, he may turn into a legitimate top 6 forward, or become a bottom 6'er, or just an AHL forward, nobody knows, but he didn't exactly light up college hockey on his own.

With that being said, do we really want this guy? We should know more than anyone else what a player with contract demands looks like having Ryan O'Reilly on this team. What if he's the exact same way? I surely don't want to deal with that

If Gaudreau was the one and only reason then why did he match his career total in goals in just the first 13 games playing on a different line from Gaudreau? Why was he still producing over a ppg without Gaudreau?

I hate this argument anyways. It's not like most teams don't have great playmakers to match with these other players. Who really cares if he needs a Gaudreau? Most players cant produce even when matched with an elite player. Can Duchene and MacK not provide what Gaudreau does?

Contract demands? Really? So any player who thinks about his options instead of just jumping all over our nuts is demanding and whatever else you are implying? If we back down from guys who weigh their options in order to make the best choice possible for themselves then we might as well and not even bother trying to sign anyone who is highly wanted. Anybody with half a brain is going to think long and hard when it comes to major career choices if they have the options.

 

[agentblack]

His situation is different with regard to O'Reilly but I'm talking purely contract dispute. Fact is here's a kid who has held out for 4 years now, not wanting to sign a contract with the team that drafted him and a darn good one at that. O'Reilly's demands were money, this kid's demands are still unknown but some people speculate that it's playing time.

How do we know this guy isn't a cancer? How do we know this guy doesn't think of himself as the next big NHL superstar? It's all possible. Obviously I'd like it if we signed him, but IMO there is much more behind the story to this kid

Edit: I'm also not saying O'Reilly is a cancer in the dressing room. I think he's an outstanding teammate, but what he does with his contract issues could rub some people the wrong way. But O'Reilly had good-to-great seasons to earn those contracts that he wanted. Hayes has done nothing, and there is speculation that he's already got demands.

I thought he couldnt sign a deal if he was still playing NCAA ,
Isnt he done with school now? Like Sonny Milano signed his ELC with CLB so he cant go back to BC once he did that right? If thats the case I dont see that as holding out.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I thought he couldnt sign a deal if he was still playing NCAA ,
Isnt he done with school now? Like Sonny Milano signed his ELC with CLB so he cant go back to BC once he did that right? If thats the case I dont see that as holding out.

That's right. That's why the Flames signed Gaudreau with one game left in the season in April and let him play for them or else he could have done the same thing Hayes is.

 

[agentblack]

Did you just question him saying McGinn is better than Hayes and then turn around and say Hayes will likely be better than McGinn, even though he has never played a professional game?

Where do you think you are? the real world? HF is like the Hockey Matrix where all the prospects are...the one.

 

[dahrougem2]

If Gaudreau was the one and only reason then why did he match his career total in goals in just the first 13 games playing on a different line from Gaudreau? Why was he still producing over a ppg without Gaudreau?

I hate this argument anyways. It's not like most teams don't have great playmakers to match with these other players. Who really cares if he needs a Gaudreau? Most players cant produce even when matched with an elite player. Can Duchene and MacK not provide what Gaudreau does?

Contract demands? Really? So any player who thinks about his options instead of just jumping all over our nuts is demanding and whatever else you are implying? If we back down from guys who weigh their options in order to make the best choice possible for themselves then we might as well and not even bother trying to sign anyone who is highly wanted. Anybody with half a brain is going to think long and hard when it comes to major career choices if they have the options.

Did I say not to sign him? No I didn't, so this thought of backing down I'm not sure where you got that from. I said earlier, I'D LIKE IF WE SIGNED HIM. But yes, he DOES have contract demands. And he isn't just "any" player. He's someone who has yet to see one second of NHL ice, and gave the cold shoulder to the team that drafted him.

Maybe you have a different view on players, but one of the things I like about hockey is the draft and having these kids earn the right to either get the big contract or go to free agency to choose their destination. He's most likely not asking for a bunch of money/bonuses etc, but he's bypassed the whole "earning the choice" part. Bad choice on his end? Absolutely not. I commend him for doing what's best for him, as all people should in life. But there is also a reason why these types of scenarios are so rare.

For example, when Justin Schultz decided not to sign with the Ducks and instead chose the Oilers, he was torn to shreds by a lot of fans. Having ran into him a few times here in Edmonton, he's got IMO major attitude problems and one can see why he wanted to forego Anaheim and pick "his" team. Same thing goes with Hayes, only I'm not going to make the judgement about him without evidence. All I'm saying is that he COULD have attitude problems because of this situation. It's not normal. Just look back on roughly 99% of rookies drafted

 

[dahrougem2]

I thought he couldnt sign a deal if he was still playing NCAA ,
Isnt he done with school now? Like Sonny Milano signed his ELC with CLB so he cant go back to BC once he did that right? If thats the case I dont see that as holding out.

Maybe holding out wasn't the correct term, but he by no means made any commitment to the Blackhawks either. One would assume that, being drafted by them, he would give them an indication that one his career in college is over, he will be looking to join the team. But that never happened. Instead, it simply went straight to once his college career is over, he'll look to become a free agent rather than sign a deal with the Hawks.

 

[m0ngr31]

I think it'd be great if we had a Barrie + Hayes signing party tomorrow.

 

[agentblack]

Maybe holding out wasn't the correct term, but he by no means made any commitment to the Blackhawks either. One would assume that, being drafted by them, he would give them an indication that one his career in college is over, he will be looking to join the team. But that never happened. Instead, it simply went straight to once his college career is over, he'll look to become a free agent rather than sign a deal with the Hawks.

How do you know that?

 

[slappipappi]

That's right. That's why the Flames signed Gaudreau with one game left in the season in April and let him play for them or else he could have done the same thing Hayes is.

By letting him play the one game, they removed a year off his ELC. it was certainly an inducement to get him to sign. He potentially reaches big bucks earlier.

 

[dahrougem2]

How do you know that?

Because it clearly didn't happen. Doesn't matter how good the Hawks are, if he's as good as some people think he is, then surely they could have found a spot for him on the 3rd line. Or at the very least let him know that he'd have a shot to crack the top 6 next season.

 

[agentblack]

Because it clearly didn't happen. Doesn't matter how good the Hawks are, if he's as good as some people think he is, then surely they could have found a spot for him on the 3rd line. Or at the very least let him know that he'd have a shot to crack the top 6 next season.

Or maybe there are other personal reasons he doesnt want to play there. Maybe Patrick Sharp made a pass at his brother. Maybe he hates Jonathan Toews.
Point is unless Hayes comes out and gives a statment saying exactly why...
for the record he doesnt need to justify his reasons , his life is his own yadda yadda #grownman
...he isnt signing with CHI then we are both just speculating arent we?

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Did I say not to sign him? No I didn't, so this thought of backing down I'm not sure where you got that from. I said earlier, I'D LIKE IF WE SIGNED HIM. But yes, he DOES have contract demands. And he isn't just "any" player. He's someone who has yet to see one second of NHL ice, and gave the cold shoulder to the team that drafted him.

Maybe you have a different view on players, but one of the things I like about hockey is the draft and having these kids earn the right to either get the big contract or go to free agency to choose their destination. He's most likely not asking for a bunch of money/bonuses etc, but he's bypassed the whole "earning the choice" part. Bad choice on his end? Absolutely not. I commend him for doing what's best for him, as all people should in life. But there is also a reason why these types of scenarios are so rare.

For example, when Justin Schultz decided not to sign with the Ducks and instead chose the Oilers, he was torn to shreds by a lot of fans. Having ran into him a few times here in Edmonton, he's got IMO major attitude problems and one can see why he wanted to forego Anaheim and pick "his" team. Same thing goes with Hayes, only I'm not going to make the judgement about him without evidence. All I'm saying is that he COULD have attitude problems because of this situation. It's not normal. Just look back on roughly 99% of rookies drafted

You questioned if we wanted him because he is demanding and compared him to RoR and said you don't want to deal with that. And you are assuming he is demanding based on nothing but the fact that he is rethinking everything after another team offers him more.

How do up know he is demanding anything? That is just absurd. He got a better offer from NY. That does not mean he demanded it. But go ahead and keep implying all this character issue BS and acting as if your baseless assumptions are anything more than that. I mean, what else is he Internet for?

Gave the cold shoulder to the team that drafted him? He doesn't owe the Blackhawks a thing. The Blackhawks didnt owe him a thing. Why didnt the Blackhawks pull him out of college earlier? Why were they not ready to give him a contract until he had a Hobey Baker year? Why do players have to be so damn loyal but organizations don't have to be until the player has proven it over and over and over gain? I mean if you are going to blame he kid then the organizations should be held accountable as well. We let Young and Condon go. I guess that means we are a shady organization that has attitude problems and are hard to deal with and whatever nonsense you are implying. Some of you guys really need to stop taking this stuff personal. This is these guys careers. They have to make the best decisions for themselves. Staying with Chicago and going to a new team could be the difference between getting to the NHL and proving yourself right away or within a year to never even making the NHL.

Your not going to make the judgement.........? What? You've done nothing but bad mouth the guy and straight up claim he is demanding.

 

[Avs_19]

Mark Divver @MarkDivver
Not looking good for #bruins on Kevin Hayes. I'm being told Rangers and Avs appear to have inside track.

He mentioned the Rangers first so does that mean they're the top choice?!?!?

 

[tigervixxxen]

Butcher could do the same to us. What if he gets better every year and just explodes senior year? Maybe he would want to explore his options, it's his right to do so. In his case as a 5th rounder there probably is an understanding not to pull him from college early but it's still something the Avs are going to have to think about on a year to year basis what they really intend to do with him and the risks they are willing to take. Leaving a first rounder in college the full four years is very risky.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Mark Divver @MarkDivver
Not looking good for #bruins on Kevin Hayes. I'm being told Rangers and Avs appear to have inside track.

He mentioned the Rangers first so does that mean they're the top choice?!?!?

Hmm, that might mean he was going to pick the Avs until the Rangers upped their offer today. Whatever reason he seems pretty interested in us but I wish I knew what exactly he's deciding between. To decline the Bruins is pretty big.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Because it clearly didn't happen. Doesn't matter how good the Hawks are, if he's as good as some people think he is, then surely they could have found a spot for him on the 3rd line. Or at the very least let him know that he'd have a shot to crack the top 6 next season.

Have you seen Chicago's roster? Between Hossa, Sharp, Kane and Toews being signed for 3 years, young guys like Shaw, Morin, Saad and Terevainen already getting NHL time, and prospects like McNeil, Hartman and Schmaltz waiting in the wings, the top 6 is going to be very hard to crack. Very very very hard. The top 9 will be tough as well considering they have a couple more prospects who are close to making the jump to that role, but not expected to make the top 6. Chicago is straight loaded at F and appears to be that way for years to come.

 

[Balthazar]

Hmm, that might mean he was going to pick the Avs until the Rangers upped their offer today. Whatever reason he seems pretty interested in us but I wish I knew what exactly he's deciding between. To decline the Bruins is pretty big.

Rangers aren't historically known to get outbidded while Sakic is more of a principle guy. Doesn't look good for us as he could very well use the AVS offer to get a better one from the Rangers (and it's probably going to work).

 

[Foppa2118]

Rangers aren't historically known to get outbidded while Sakic is more of a principle guy. Doesn't look good for us as he could very well use the AVS offer to get a better one from the Rangers (and it's probably going to work).

I'd be surprised if all the teams hadn't made their best offer in regard to the bonus structure by the end of the first day he was a UFA. I don't think this is about money.

Then again, maybe Sather went crazy and made everything attainable in game 1.

 

[Balthazar]

I'd be surprised if all the teams hadn't made their best offer in regard to the bonus structure by the end of the first day he was a UFA. I don't think this is about money.

Then again, maybe Sather went crazy and made everything attainable in game 1.

It's not all about money, it could be about ice time as well. There are plenty of things that they can promise.

 

[agentblack]

It's not all about money, it could be about ice time as well. There are plenty of things that they can promise.

Well no one can promise him anything really, other than a contract. Everything else should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[Balthazar]

Well no one can promise him anything really, other than a contract. Everything else should be taken with a grain of salt.

We all know that funny things can happen behind closed doors.

 

[JLo217]

I'd be surprised if all the teams hadn't made their best offer in regard to the bonus structure by the end of the first day he was a UFA. I don't think this is about money.

Then again, maybe Sather went crazy and made everything attainable in game 1.

Not possible. There are a decent number of limitations to prevent this from happening. The signing bonus for example can only be 9 or 10% of the max ELC which I think is $925,000.

All the other bonus are also set with restrictions as well.

Nice resource: http://www.capgeek.com/faq/how-do-entry-level-contracts-work

 

[JWK]

Maybe holding out wasn't the correct term, but he by no means made any commitment to the Blackhawks either. One would assume that, being drafted by them, he would give them an indication that one his career in college is over, he will be looking to join the team. But that never happened. Instead, it simply went straight to once his college career is over, he'll look to become a free agent rather than sign a deal with the Hawks.

He had a serious injury at the end of his Junior year, missed the final 8 games of that year. It was almost career ending injury for him. I believe he wanted to sign in the offseason, but Chicago didn't.

KH: I think after the (quadriceps) injury last year; it was real close to being a career-ending injury. I was about 10 hours away from them amputating my leg off. I think it kind of made me wake up a little bit and value the game a little more.

Do you know what your plan is going forward with the Blackhawks?

KH: Pretty sure I’ll be signing once the season’s over. We’ll take it from there.

This interview took place in January 2014. So something happened for him to have second guesses.
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/blackhawks/post/_/id/4679317/qa-with-hawks-prospect-kevin-hayes