Rumor: In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) LXV

[cgf]

That 3m bridge deal looks far but I don't blame RJ's camp for turning down the other 2. He doesn't deserve that type of money yet but he certainly will. I predict a 3.5m aav 2 year bridge deal.

I disagree. 4-4.5 would be fair given the year he's coming off of. Both sides are being unreasonable though coming so far off of that.

 

[henchman21]

Wow... Kurt on TSN radio now. Worth a listen.

http://www.tsn.ca/toronto/listen/

 

[Freudian]

I don't understand why Avs trade for Stuart on July 1st and overpay for him. They miss out on taking advantage of teams having to move players during the summer.

Avs aren't going to trade for Methot. Stuart was it.

 

[InjuredChoker]

I'm up for it (I need a new avatar)... What about signs 2 year deal and gets traded this season?

if gets traded immediately, you win. if he signs 2yr deal now and is traded later, after you've held my chosen avatar, you can pick one for me for same duration, say month?

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

Not sure that deal is good for Columbus. If Johansen has an average couple years, they are then on the hook for a $5+m QO to keep his rights. They need to try to keep that QO offer low just incase he falls flat.

"If they're looking to move him" was the key there.

It's not a great contract if he's still in their long term plans, but I'd be surprised if that happens at this point. You don't publicly call out an agent and indirectly a player in your organization if you intend on keeping them around.

 

[henchman21]

if gets traded immediately, you win. if he signs 2yr deal now and is traded later, after you've held my chosen avatar, you can pick one for me for same duration, say month?

Works for me!

 

[InjuredChoker]

I don't understand why Avs trade for Stuart on July 1st and overpay for him. They miss out on taking advantage of teams having to move players during the summer.

Avs aren't going to trade for Methot. Stuart was it.

only explanation is that they see something in stuart that almost no one else does.

 

[cgf]

Cause of the extensions we had to work out. Stuart is just a, very bad, stop gap til next summer when we'll be in position to add that last piece to the puzzle with the cap space Hejda, Stuart and briere will open up, and no immediate contrActs to extend.

Plus it buys patty and joe another year to assess the guys they didn't get as much of a sure read on so that they can feel confident about knowing what they have in Bigras and Siemens, and understanding how much they're ready to spend on Barrie, EJ, and ROR longterm. So that they don't commit too much solving the defensive problem and then run into difficulties fitting those three into the plans.

 

[henchman21]

That TSN interview with Overhardt wasn't pretty...

I think Stuart will be around after this season.

 

[Foppa2118]

Why are you blaming the agent? If the player weren't down with this it wouldn't be happening.

Agents develop reputations, and certain types of players, or players in certain situations will seek out agents with certain reputations. Like turris wanting to leave the desert, or ryjo wanting an irrational amount of money. If those are things you need your agent to handle you're going to need a certain kind of agent.

So don't just bring up past incidents as though this agent having had other difficult clients lets those players off of the hook for making things difficult.

Right, don't bring up the agent having anything to do with it. Just ignore the fact he's done this many many times before. He even pissed off the team last year playing hardball on an ELC for Kerby Rychel.

How can you say to ignore the only constant denominator in multiple ugly contract negotiations?

These are kids in their early 20's. They don't know what the hell the right strategy is in their career, they need to be advised for their own benefit. What they're being advised to do is holdout out to drive up contracts for all future RFA's in their situation.

Davidson said it best.

“When they have arbitration and they have unrestricted free agency, they try to take us to the woodshed. So now they have no leverage and they’re trying to take us to the woodshed,†Davidson said. “You explain it to me. What are we supposed to do? We’re not being unfair. We’re following a document that’s right there in place.â€

 

[RockLobster]

someone please summarize Overhardt's comments?

 

[Foppa2118]

Chris Nichols ‏@NicholsOnHockey 4 min
Staal believed to seeking around $6 million per, on six or seven-year deal. #NYR believed offering around $5.5 million for six years. (Post)

Yeah, he is staying in NY if they are truly this close already.

Crap, yea he's staying if they're only $500k apart with a year to go. I'd have no problems paying him $6M for 6 or 7 years.

 

[henchman21]

someone please summarize Overhardt's comments?

Looks like a transcript will be up here soon.

 

[hockeyfish]

I don't understand why Avs trade for Stuart on July 1st and overpay for him. They miss out on taking advantage of teams having to move players during the summer.

Avs aren't going to trade for Methot. Stuart was it.

But if you trust the timing of the rumors, we still tried to sign Orpik even after trading for Stuart. I maintain that Stuart was nothing more than insurance, and doesn't change the teams pursuit of a long term solution.

 

[cgf]

Right, don't bring up the agent having anything to do with it. Just ignore the fact he's done this many many times before. He even pissed off the team last year playing hardball on an ELC for Kerby Rychel.

How can you say to ignore the only constant denominator in multiple ugly contract negotiations?

These are kids in their early 20's. They don't know what the hell the right strategy is in their career, they need to be advised for their own benefit. What they're being advised to do is holdout out to drive up contracts for all future RFA's in their situation.

Davidson said it best.

“When they have arbitration and they have unrestricted free agency, they try to take us to the woodshed. So now they have no leverage and they’re trying to take us to the woodshed,†Davidson said. “You explain it to me. What are we supposed to do? We’re not being unfair. We’re following a document that’s right there in place.â€

The agent can advise anything he wants, but young men, especially ones as arrogant as most pro athletes, don't exactly listen to advice very well. And ultimately the agent is an employee of the players so if they can't convince their boss to chose a more realistic path they can only follow his instruction.

Turris wanted a fresh start, so his agent did what he could to make it happen, ryjo wants an absurd amount of money, so the agent is doing what he can to make it happen.

And that comment is silly by Davidson because ryjo clearly does have leverage, not as much as with arbitration or as much as he would as a UFA, but he still holds some leverage, otherwise they wouldn't have been giving him so many different offers, and while the CBA gives them exclusive rights, it doesn't guarantee that the player has to sign whatever they are gracious enough to offer him.

The more I read about this the more childish ryjo and colombus' management come off, with the agent looking the least bad.

 

[henchman21]

The more I read about this the more childish ryjo and colombus' management come off, with the agent looking the least bad.

I'm not one to defend Overhardt (I really don't like the guy), but I agree here.

 

[Foppa2118]

I don't understand why Avs trade for Stuart on July 1st and overpay for him. They miss out on taking advantage of teams having to move players during the summer.

Avs aren't going to trade for Methot. Stuart was it.

Yea, I never got this either.

Only thing I could think of is somehow SJ set it up where they could convince Sakic and Roy that they were about to move him somewhere else. Detroit perhaps. Kind of like the Berra situation. They already knew they probably weren't going to land their plan A and B targets for defenseman, and desperately gave up an overpayment in order to guarantee they didn't miss out on their next target.

 

[henchman21]

Yea, I never got this either.

Only thing I could think of is somehow SJ set it up where they could convince Sakic and Roy that they were about to move him somewhere else. Detroit perhaps. Kind of like the Berra situation. They already knew they probably weren't going to land their plan A and B targets for defenseman, and desperately gave up an overpayment in order to guarantee they didn't miss out on their next target.

I stand by the feeling that Hejda was going to be replaced. The Avs were apparently in the Orpik sweepstakes right up to the very end (final two and apparently has as good of offer) and were close with Stralman and Niskanen. That doesn't seem like a feeling that they would lose out. None of us will really ever know, but that makes the most sense to me... replace Hejda with a signing, trade for Stuart, and trade away Hejda. The signing just never materialized.

 

[Nzap]

Braun for 5 years at 3.8AAV.

Is it just me, or is that an awesome deal for SJS?

 

[henchman21]

Braun for 5 years at 3.8AAV.

Is it just me, or is that an awesome deal for SJS?

Good deal, but there is a bit of risk to it. Braun is going to be interesting player to watch this year. He could really breakout, and if that happens San Jose got a hell of a deal.

 

[Foppa2118]

The agent can advise anything he wants, but young men, especially ones as arrogant as most pro athletes, don't exactly listen to advice very well. And ultimately the agent is an employee of the players so if they can't convince their boss to chose a more realistic path they can only follow his instruction.

Turris wanted a fresh start, so his agent did what he could to make it happen, ryjo wants an absurd amount of money, so the agent is doing what he can to make it happen.

And that comment is silly by Davidson because ryjo clearly does have leverage, not as much as with arbitration or as much as he would as a UFA, but he still holds some leverage, otherwise they wouldn't have been giving him so many different offers, and while the CBA gives them exclusive rights, it doesn't guarantee that the player has to sign whatever they are gracious enough to offer him.

The more I read about this the more childish ryjo and colombus' management come off, with the agent looking the least bad.

The agent's job is to do what the players want, but what always seems to forgotten in this argument is they're supposed to advise the players what to do.

RyJo has no leverage. Columbus gave him multiple offers because it's the final hour before training camp and they didn't want him to hold out. That's his only leverage, to hold out. UFA's get an open market to bid on them. Older RFA's get arbitration rights. All RyJo had was the possibility of an offer sheet, if he didn't like what his team was offering him. He didn't get that so he's holding out.

There's a clear cut strategy to change the market price for 2nd contracts in the NHL. It's been done for a while now, and every year it's been pushed further and further. This is not something the players got together and decided. It's something a few agents realized they could capitalize on, and started advising their clients to do.

They want to have their cake and eat it to. Just like Davidson said. They get overpaid as UFA's, and now they want to get overpaid on their 2nd contracts before they've proven themselves.

This is where it's the agent's job to step in and say this isn't a good idea, trust me. They just want to make sure what kind of player you are, and then you'll be paid a hefty sum when we have more leverage with arbitration.

Except they don't say that. They paint it as an insult and that the team is the villain. They want to make it seem personal, and then to say what they're doing is just business. That's why Pat Morris is on the radio essentially saying the team is slapping O'Reilly in the face taking him to arbitration, that's why he felt so offended the last time when he held out, and that's why RyJo is doing interviews saying the Jackets offers are insulting.

There's no way the agents don't know the players are feeling this way, and they would never have those emotions if guys like Overhardt weren't promoting that feeling. You just can't ignore the fact that he's done this with so many of his clients. If Overhardt runs like a duck, and quacks like a duck, he's a ***damned duck.

 

[Foppa2118]

I stand by the feeling that Hejda was going to be replaced. The Avs were apparently in the Orpik sweepstakes right up to the very end (final two and apparently has as good of offer) and were close with Stralman and Niskanen. That doesn't seem like a feeling that they would lose out. None of us will really ever know, but that makes the most sense to me... replace Hejda with a signing, trade for Stuart, and trade away Hejda. The signing just never materialized.

I've had the same sense that Hejda won't be re-signed, and that they may even take Stuart over him next year, but I don't think they were looking to move on from him this year. I think they wanted to add to him.

He was just too good last year. If they're trying to improve the D, it doesn't make sense to cut ties with one of the best guys. The only way I see that making sense is if they were trying to trade for a guy like Staal or Coburn or some other younger version of Hejda's role that either had term or they wanted to try to resign, and the other team asked for Hejda as a stop gap to replace what they were giving up.

I think the Avs probably had a sense they weren't going to land Stralman and Niskanen by the time they finalized the Stuart deal, and either made it as a backup plan in case they lost out on those guys, or as a supplement that they would just figure out later on how to deal with. Likely with not adding so much depth like Redmond etc.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Braun for 5 years at 3.8AAV.

Is it just me, or is that an awesome deal for SJS?

that's one of the best deals given this offseason. all UFA years too.

he's at least borderline top pairing guy, imo a good #2.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

that's one of the best deals given this offseason. all UFA years too.

he's at least borderline top pairing guy, imo a good #2.

Wo, I think that's what they're hoping he becomes.

 

[hockeyfish]

that's one of the best deals given this offseason. all UFA years too.

he's at least borderline top pairing guy, imo a good #2.

Pretty sure I just heard Methot curse.