In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) LVIII

[Bender]

Thanks. Was guessing it was Dater and Co.

6M sounds pretty fair to me, though on the high end. I would break it down like this as far as forwards go:
The superstars (Crosby, Stamkos, Getzlaf- Duchene is right on the edge, MacK should be here when his contract runs out)- 7+ Mil
The stars (Sharp, Steen, Benn- RoR. Lando and Staz are right on the edge)- 6 to 7 Mil
Legit well rounded Top 6 players that are more of the complimentary type (Ladd, Marchand, Kunitz- Staz is closer to this than a "star")- 5 to 6 Mil
Scoring top 6 players (Gallagher, Semin- PaP)- 4 to 5 Mil
Versatile depth guys who can fill in on the top (Shaw, Niederreiter- McGinn)- 2 to 4 Mil
Bottom 6 players- less than 2 mil.

I'd say that's pretty accurate. Well done.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

You quoted me but I never wrote what's in the quote. Not sure what you've done but it's wrong.

Sorry about that. I meant to find one of Barklez's posts.

I like Kesler, but why is everyone so hyped up about trying to acquire him?

If we lose Stastny, I'm pretty sure it's a dead lock that we will just move MacKinnon back to C on the 2nd line. Roy wants it and that's where the kid has played his entire life.

If that's the case, then we'll be looking to spend Paul's $6.6M to not only fill a hole or two on the blueline, but we'll have some extra cash to add a right winger (Vrbata? perhaps) and a true 3rd line C (Goc? perhaps).

Kesler won't happen with or without Stastny.

Because Kesler would be the perfect fit next to Duchene and RoR. Offensively he is a goal scorer. He isnt the best set up man, but Duchene is going to be the guy with the puck on his stick most of the time. He brings some grit to that line that is lacking a little. And a great defender, which would make that line a legit 2 way threat. He is basically a better version of McGinn, who complemented that line quite nice but is a little inconsistent.

I doubt it happens though. Like others have said, we need to trade for a Dman and dont have many valuable asests to trade. The only way i see us getting Kesler is if Staz is not getting re-signed and we somehow **** Vancouver by doing a straight up trade, Staz for Kesler (not happening). Or we put together a big trade for Kesler and one of their top4 Dmen.

 

[tigervixxxen]

My reasoning is that the Av's probably lose Statsny to FA and ROR is a RFA who has given Av's ownership a hard time in the past. You need 3 solid lines to succeed in the playoffs.

Krejci
Duchene
Mac

I don't get it. You come to our board to ask about our player and then continue to devalue him. IF a situation arises where the Avs need to move O'Reilly this is not the deal they would look for. Where is Boston getting the money to sign O'Reilly? You think he's going to sign for cheap there?

 

[S E P H]

As unrealistic as it might be, an O'Reilly-Duchene-Kesler line would be fun to watch.

Amazing.

I don't get it. Let's complain every single day for a year straight about defense but let's get rid of every single asset we have for a forward.

You make it sound like Kezler sucks defensively, he would the 2nd/3rd best defensive forward on the team. Would it be as useful as a top 4 defenseman? No. But in Roy's 5 unit system, he would definitely have a significant impact.

Bruins need to add, or change the player entirely. Hamilton is who the Avs would want.

Hench you're crazy in thinking Bruins would add anything to a Krejci trade. Most definitely it doesn't fill our needs, but ROR and him are very similar players with Krejci having better expedience and so far a better career.

canucks fans are kind of... asinine on what they think they'll get for kesler.

one would think luongo would have thought them something.

I still Canuck fans have been pretty reasonable, but that Sergei fan still thought that Gillies got great value for Luongo and Schneider.

 

[Avs44]

What would the Avalanche fan base think of a Krejci for O'Reilly swap?

Absolutely zero interest. Hamilton or nothing, it's really that simple.

 

[tigervixxxen]

You make it sound like Kezler sucks defensively, he would the 2nd/3rd best defensive forward on the team. Would it be as useful as a top 4 defenseman? No. But in Roy's 5 unit system, he would definitely have a significant impact.

What? No, my point has nothing to do with Kesler. It has to do with the 5,000+ posts I've read on here about the defense needing fixed and then using every single asset with any value to get a forward. That's nice that Kesler is great defensively, so are we just turning our wishlist into a defensive forward and rolling with Holden as Barrie's partner? The idea of Kesler is crazy talk. It's never going to happen with what we have to give. In a vacuum would I like him on the team, sure.

I'm ok with Markov in theory that he wouldn't need much term on a contract and could fill a need now. I just doubt he leaves Montreal, the Avs offer that much to a UFA and/or he actually choses to come here.

We've had this discussion before, there was a good one on the main board at least. Stastny is not a star. He's not a forward that carries a team. He's a very, very nice complimentary piece. He's a luxury as a 2C but those that pay for him to be a 1C (Not the Avs) are going to be disappointed. The Avs know what they have in him, they just have to determine how much they are willing to go.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

I still Canuck fans have been pretty reasonable, but that Sergei fan still thought that Gillies got great value for Luongo and Schneider.

Man, if they actually think that then Staz for Kesler straight up might not be out of the question. have there been more lopsided trades in the past year? Its one thing to make a trade to get out of a bad situation, but to claim it was at a good value? Thats just funny.

That would be like NY trying to save face and claim they got a good value for Vanek.

 

[henchman21]

Hench you're crazy in thinking Bruins would add anything to a Krejci trade. Most definitely it doesn't fill our needs, but ROR and him are very similar players with Krejci having better expedience and so far a better career.

I didn't say that they weren't similar, just that the Bruins would need to add and they would.... Krejci is 1 year from being a UFA. ROR is at very, very least 2, and very likely 4+ with this next contract. The values are significantly different simply because of that.

 

[Avs For Life]

I really want us to sign Stastny but if we dont and he walks, yes it was poor asset managment, but we do free up 6.5 mil cap space. The FWD FA market is decent this year. We could still move someone for D and pick up a couple FA to fill out or top 9.

We want a bit more size and we would have some money to spend. Some of the guys I might be interested in. (I know not all of them bring size)

Moulson
Gaborik (depending on what he wants)
Callahan
Grabovski (I go back and forth on him but might be interesting)
Kuleman
Penner
Ott
Winnik (Sacco held him back, would love to pick him up)

With Dater basically promising that PAP will not be an Av next year we could be potentially losing 2 top 6 forwards here. We could slot McGinn up with ROR and Duchene but McGinn might be what it takes to get Kulikov from the rumors last year.

 

[Foppa2118]

Another reason the Avs jumped the gun on trading for a backup next year, Tokarski has been playing great is will most likely be the backup next year, making Budaj available. He's got one year left on his deal at about the same price, and has experience, familiarity, and is a very good backup.

Easily could have been had for less than a 2nd in the off season, and probably a location he'd favor if Montreal went to him out of courtesy.

 

[Pokecheque]

Another reason the Avs jumped the gun on trading for a backup next year, Tokarski has been playing great is will most likely be the backup next year, making Budaj available. He's got one year left on his deal at about the same price, and has experience, familiarity, and is a very good backup.

Easily could have been had for less than a 2nd in the off season, and probably a location he'd favor if Montreal went to him out of courtesy.

Budaj isn't NHL material anymore. It's a shame because there are few professional athletes more humble and classier than him, but he's done after this season. There's a reason why the Habs decided to go with an untested goalie rather than a veteran backup. The few times Boods had to step up he hasn't been up to the task.

The Avs may have jumped the gun a bit, but if Allaire is this sure about Berra, then I'll give him and Roy the benefit of the doubt. For now at least.

 

[Foppa2118]

Budaj isn't NHL material anymore. It's a shame because there are few professional athletes more humble and classier than him, but he's done after this season. There's a reason why the Habs decided to go with an untested goalie rather than a veteran backup. The few times Boods had to step up he hasn't been up to the task.

The Avs may have jumped the gun a bit, but if Allaire is this sure about Berra, then I'll give him and Roy the benefit of the doubt. For now at least.

Sure he is, why do you say that? The Avs gave up the 6th most shots this year while Montreal gave up the 9th, and Budaj had some respectable numbers with a 2.51 GAA and a .909 save %. He's only 31 it's not like he's washed up.

It's not his fault he's not a guy that can carry a team in a big playoff series. That shouldn't be what the Avs expect in a backup. The Habs went with Tokarski based on a hunch because he has a history of coming up big in big situations, and he's proven them right. It's much more about Tokarakski than Budaj.

 

[henchman21]

The Berra trade was about solving the backup goalie situation for 3 years, and then possibly having a tradeable asset at the end of it. Budaj, besides being a re-tread where the Avs gave up on him, isn't the player you pencil in for 3 years in that spot.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

I just don't see it. Save the money and sign Niskanen or (if we keep Stastny) trade ROR for a top D.

Niskanen is obviously the best solution though.

You are way too convinced on Niskanen. What happens if he goes back to being the average player he was the previous FOUR years before this last one? Could easily happen.

 

[Foppa2118]

The Berra trade was about solving the backup goalie situation for 3 years, and then possibly having a tradeable asset at the end of it. Budaj, besides being a re-tread where the Avs gave up on him, isn't the player you pencil in for 3 years in that spot.

This is based on the premise that they NEED to have the same backup for the next three years. I don't see why that's the case.

Berra will be a UFA in three years, he's not going to be a trade asset. They'll keep him to the end of his deal.

 

[henchman21]

This is based on the premise that they NEED to have the same backup for the next three years. I don't see why that's the case.

That is how management explained the trade. They wanted to solve the backup issue for the foreseeable future. They didn't want a 1 year stop gap in that spot. They wouldn't have even looked at Budaj.

 

[Pokecheque]

Sure he is, why do you say that? The Avs gave up the 6th most shots this year while Montreal gave up the 9th, and Budaj had some respectable numbers with a 2.51 GAA and a .909 save %. He's only 31 it's not like he's washed up.

He is. And for a guy who played in 24 games this season those aren't good numbers. I guess you're trying to say they're respectable because Montreal wasn't good defensively down the stretch. That's not at all a convincing argument to me.

Again, you need to ask yourself why the Habs decided to go with Tokarski instead of Budaj. I'll readily admit that Therrien is an awful, awful coach, but he made the right call there. I'll be shocked if he's in the league at all next season.

 

[Foppa2118]

That is how management explained the trade. They wanted to solve the backup issue for the foreseeable future. They didn't want a 1 year stop gap in that spot. They wouldn't have even looked at Budaj.

I think that was more an explanation they went with from a PR standpoint, after they had decided in their guy.

If they had the mindset that they had to have the same backup for the next three years it was a mistake IMO. Being a little more patient and giving up a cheaper price, or finding a guy that's a little safer as a proven backup should have taken precedence.

They freaked out over Jiggy's back and Aitto's readiness. This shouldn't have been a reason to rush a trade. If they lost Varly for some reason they would have been done either way.

Berra can still turn out great, but Budaj is a fine backup and would have been cheaper.

 

[Foppa2118]

He is. And for a guy who played in 24 games this season those aren't good numbers. I guess you're trying to say they're respectable because Montreal wasn't good defensively down the stretch. That's not at all a convincing argument to me.

Again, you need to ask yourself why the Habs decided to go with Tokarski instead of Budaj. I'll readily admit that Therrien is an awful, awful coach, but he made the right call there. I'll be shocked if he's in the league at all next season.

They went with Tokarski because of his track record of coming up big not because of Budaj.

What kind of numbers are you expecting out if a backup? What is your reasoning to think he's washed up? Because he came in cold in one playoff game when his team was tired and playing like crap and let in some goals?

 

[henchman21]

I think that was more an explanation they went with from a PR standpoint, after they had decided in their guy.

If they had the mindset that they had to have the same backup for the next three years it was a mistake IMO. Being a little more patient and giving up a cheaper price, or finding a guy that's a little safer as a proven backup should have taken precedence.

They freaked out over Jiggy's back and Aitto's readiness. This shouldn't have been a reason to rush a trade. If they lost Varly for some reason they would have been done either way.

Berra can still turn out great, but Budaj is a fine backup and would have been cheaper.

You may think it is a mistake, but they wanted a longer term solution (relative) and that is pretty obvious. If they wanted a 1 year thing, they would have looked elsewhere and not paid the price.

No doubt Jiggy and Aitto played a part. Aitto is 3+ years from really being ready for full-time NHL duty. Having him as the backup was not an option. Jiggy playing next year was not an option... they were left with trading for somebody (which they could have done after the season and probably paid less), but they got the guy they wanted (or probably 2nd to Scrivens).

The two targets we know were Scrivens and Berra. Scrivens went for a 3rd (63) and Berra went for a late 2nd (54). Both Scrivens and Berra were younger pending UFAs that could solve the backup issue for a number of years. From that we can gather what the Avs were looking for.

Roy's opinion on backups is probably shaped by his playing career. During his time with the Avs he had only 3 full time backups... Billington, Denis (1 season), and Aebischer. Montreal was more of a mess, but 2 were consistently his backup... Racicot and Heyward.

 

[Pokecheque]

They went with Tokarski because of his track record of coming up big not because of Budaj.

What kind of numbers are you expecting out if a backup? What is your reasoning to think he's washed up? Because he came in cold in one playoff game when his team was tired and playing like crap and let in some goals?

Oh they most certainly did go with Tokarski because, in part, of Budaj. With so much at stake you think they simply went with Tokarski purely because of his short track record, compared to Boods' track record?

I never said Budaj or any other backup should be outstanding. But those are not good numbers. The Avs can and should be aiming for something a little better than "average at best."

The switch to Tokarski as the full-time number two has been rumored for quite some time. A lot of Habs fans I talk to were certain Budaj was done after this season. It's not like he had one bad game and the Habs just turned on him suddenly.

The Avs decided to roll the dice on a younger kid with more potential rather than the "safe" option of Budaj or another veteran backup. I'm fine with that for now, but I'll freely admit this could be a very costly error next season if they bet wrong. I'm not sold on this move at all, but to me they've earned some leeway.

If Boods proves me wrong next season, good for him, but I don't think the Avs screwed up royally by not waiting for someone like him to be dropped by his team. Again, I'll be surprised if he hangs around in the NHL after this. I think he's done. He lasted longer than David Aebischer, which, looking back, is kind of surprising to me.

 

[Ivan13]

I just don't see it. Save the money and sign Niskanen or (if we keep Stastny) trade ROR for a top D.

Niskanen is obviously the best solution though.

EDIT: there's also the possibility of signing ROR and Stastny and then trying to trade Duchene+ for Weber, but that's probably not happening.

Based on what? One good season?

You are way too convinced on Niskanen. What happens if he goes back to being the average player he was the previous FOUR years before this last one? Could easily happen.

Players playing above their usual level in their contract years and then reverting back to their usual level after they get a fat paycheck is unheard of obviously.

 

[Avs For Life]

Niskanen is going to get more money than he should based on one good season. Oh btw, that one good season was him playing on the right IIRC and we still need guys to play the left.

Our right side is EJ, Barrie, Elliott, Guenin. IMO, I would take Barrie over Nisk because he will be cheaper and is younger.

 

[Foppa2118]

You may think it is a mistake, but they wanted a longer term solution (relative) and that is pretty obvious. If they wanted a 1 year thing, they would have looked elsewhere and not paid the price.

No doubt Jiggy and Aitto played a part. Aitto is 3+ years from really being ready for full-time NHL duty. Having him as the backup was not an option. Jiggy playing next year was not an option... they were left with trading for somebody (which they could have done after the season and probably paid less), but they got the guy they wanted (or probably 2nd to Scrivens).

The two targets we know were Scrivens and Berra. Scrivens went for a 3rd (63) and Berra went for a late 2nd (54). Both Scrivens and Berra were younger pending UFAs that could solve the backup issue for a number of years. From that we can gather what the Avs were looking for.

Roy's opinion on backups is probably shaped by his playing career. During his time with the Avs he had only 3 full time backups... Billington, Denis (1 season), and Aebischer. Montreal was more of a mess, but 2 were consistently his backup... Racicot and Heyward.

Again, I think you're making too much of the "3 years" thing. There's lots of avenues in this regard, and that isn't why they gave up a 2nd at the trade deadline for a 3rd backup. They did that because of Jiggy and Aitto.

It's not like another guy like Budaj with only one year left couldn't be a backup for 3 years. If he would have come in and been a decent backup, and Varly continued to be a strong #1, it would have been a piece of cake to negotiate an extension with Budaj for around the same price or even cheaper. Boods wouldn't have been trying to play anywhere else at his age, he knows his role.

Oh they most certainly did go with Tokarski because, in part, of Budaj. With so much at stake you think they simply went with Tokarski purely because of his short track record, compared to Boods' track record?

I never said Budaj or any other backup should be outstanding. But those are not good numbers. The Avs can and should be aiming for something a little better than "average at best."

The switch to Tokarski as the full-time number two has been rumored for quite some time. A lot of Habs fans I talk to were certain Budaj was done after this season. It's not like he had one bad game and the Habs just turned on him suddenly.

The Avs decided to roll the dice on a younger kid with more potential rather than the "safe" option of Budaj or another veteran backup. I'm fine with that for now, but I'll freely admit this could be a very costly error next season if they bet wrong. I'm not sold on this move at all, but to me they've earned some leeway.

If Boods proves me wrong next season, good for him, but I don't think the Avs screwed up royally by not waiting for someone like him to be dropped by his team. Again, I'll be surprised if he hangs around in the NHL after this. I think he's done. He lasted longer than David Aebischer, which, looking back, is kind of surprising to me.

I guess we just view him differently. To me, Budaj is still among the better reliable backups in the league. Tokarski is a young guy with some promise.

 

[Ivan13]

Budaj was just fine for a back-up in Montreal.