In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) LVIII

[Gabe the Babe]

Spezza would be eaten alive if he went to the leafs.

I'd take Leo in a heart beat... he'd be one of the avs better bottom 6 players.

Based on what exactly? I'd take McGinn, Tanguay, Mitchell, and Talbot over him easily. So he's better than Bordy and Highlander. Yay...

 

[Avsboy]

You guys are actually losing your minds...

WE DON'T NEED ANOTHER CENTER!

Johnny Malkin is more than capable of playing the 3C and he's only making 1.8 mil.

Some of you want to add like 3 forwards? That's a joke, guys. Just stop.

If we lose Stastny we need to add another center.

 

[Freudian]

I think there is a decent chance Ottawa wanted to trade Spezza this summer so I think it fits both parties here.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Based on what exactly? I'd take McGinn, Tanguay, Mitchell, and Talbot over him easily. So he's better than Bordy and Highlander. Yay...

I've personally really liked what I've seen from Komarov. He is relentless on the forecheck, and very aggravating to play against. I think he'd make a fantastic addition to our bottom-6.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Based on what exactly? I'd take McGinn, Tanguay, Mitchell, and Talbot over him easily. So he's better than Bordy and Highlander. Yay...

Based on his play? He's better defensively than Mcginn, Mitchell and Tangs is injured for most of the year so he's better to have by default.

 

[shadow1]

No. Our offensive and defensive depth were huge problem in playoffs. Roy&Sakic has to do something about it.

What do you mean Mike Ricci? He was great charatcher guy and great guy for third line.

I mean Ricci could have been the second line center on most teams, but Colorado was stacked.

 

[shadow1]

McLeod and Cliche would likely never be on his wings.

They were on Tablot's wings in the playoffs, and all it took was a couple injuries. That's why there is a defense to those suggesting the Avs add more forwards in the off-season.

 

[tigervixxxen]

If we lose Stastny we need to add another center.

We have one called Nathan MacKinnon.

 

[Nzap]

We have one called Nathan MacKinnon.

Yeah, and we still preferably need a 3rd C so that Mitchell moves to 3rd line LW or 4th line C, unless you want to put ROR in there.

 

[Avsboy]

We have one called Nathan MacKinnon.

I know but a top 6 of Duchene, Mackinnon, Tanguay, PaP, Landeskog, and RoR seems flimsy and mostly defensively inept. Without Stastny more offensive depth is needed beyond Mitchell, and that offensive depth has to have two way ability. The need for more forwards is all about depth, and that need becomes more serious if Stastny goes.

Projections are for Grabo to get $4.5m-$5.5m and Kulemin $3m-$3.5m. We can probably get them on the low end of that projection, since Grabo is really a diehard Avs fan and Kulemin is buddies with him. I can safely say that I would choose those two over Stastny alone, and roll with three great lines.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Definitely think the Avs should be adding forward depth. I don't think they need to go for expensive players though. What they should aim for is serviceable role players that you can fit into the bottom-6, not fringe players (like Cliche) but good bottom-6ers.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

Definitely think the Avs should be adding forward depth. I don't think they need to go for expensive players though. What they should aim for is serviceable role players that you can fit into the bottom-6, not fringe players (like Cliche) but good bottom-6ers.

Find some free agency gems that can produce some points like Mason Raymond did.

Some good depth in free agency on forward I wouldn't mind adding:

Lee Stempniak
Dustin Penner

 

[tigervixxxen]

I guess supposedly whoever replaces PA would add to the defensive quotient. I really don't see them adding more than one B6 forward, they aren't going to that many changes. I understand the arguments for it but I just don't think it will happen. Roy didn't sign Mitchell in March to put him on the 4th line.

 

[Gabe the Babe]

Based on his play? He's better defensively than Mcginn, Mitchell and Tangs is injured for most of the year so he's better to have by default.

He's also worse at almost every offensive facet of the game then the guys you mentioned. For me, he's not a better total package player than anyone but McLeod and Bordy.

I'm all for adding depth forwards like Mason Raymond, but anybody wanting to give Grabo and Kulemin 7 million combined needs to give their head a shake. The ONLY reason Stastny would leave is because we don't want to pay him the money he wants. 0% chance he's asking for over 7, so basically you guys are telling Staz we don't have that money for him (a top 20 center in the NHL), but we do have that same exact money for two middle six guys who will both be overpaid by a mil or so each.

Anything for 2 million or less and for 3 years or less. That's fine with me.

 

[Avsboy]

I'm all for adding depth forwards like Mason Raymond, but anybody wanting to give Grabo and Kulemin 7 million combined needs to give their head a shake. The ONLY reason Stastny would leave is because we don't want to pay him the money he wants. 0% chance he's asking for over 7, so basically you guys are telling Staz we don't have that money for him (a top 20 center in the NHL), but we do have that same exact money for two middle six guys who will both be overpaid by a mil or so each.

You do realize that two serviceable top 6 and excellent top 9 players for $7.5 million is a significant upgrade over one top 6 player at $7 million? It's a 25 point difference in production (assuming 50 points from Grabo, 35 from Kulemin vs. 60 for Stastny). I hope you also realize that the entire premise of my suggestion is based on them taking a discount and not being overpaid.

The fact that Grabovski is an Avs fan alone makes me want him. I'm not saying it's realistic, and I wouldn't mind Goc and Kulemin, or just Goc, but preferably we can snag that package that consists of two players who are great defensively and very good offensively. If Stastny refuses a fair contract of $6 m a year.

I agree you with that Komarov is not the answer, though.

I'd also like to add that I think Avs stand pat on D, or add only a minor (and debatable) upgrade in someone like Greene. I don't think Markov is available and if he was Avs probably won't go after him. Niskanen is too expensive. There are no other options.

 

[Bender]

Only the crazy people would trade ROR right now. You don't trade a guy part of your core in the future only for a need now. Contenders like the Hawks would say otherwise. If we can't get patient, than we don't deserve another championship.

I think the vast majority of Avs fans don't want him traded at all...and the day he signs a long-term contract to stay here will/would be a great day to be an Avs fan.

I also think that a lot of us were very disappointed the last time there were negotiations between the two sides and IF things go sideways again this time around, I believe the Avs will act quickly and make a trade before his dad starts going all 'External Control Big Boss Man Management' or whatever.

I don't think the Avs let it get that far. In my opinion, this doesn't get to a 'qualifying offer', this doesn't get to arbitration, this doesn't get to another possible offer sheet. The Avs will come in and offer him a very good, very fair, long-term contract and if the other side isn't really receptive and want to 'force' the qualifier, he'll be traded and there will be a long list of potential suitors.

I know people want to point to 'new management' and that's all fine and good but people tend to leave out the fact that Sakic was there...the whole time...and knows what's going on with this situation.

More importantly not enough people wanting to give Hishon a chance, that kid still has potential and he'll be dirt cheap.

I don't think it's that people don't want to give Hishon a chance, it's that they want a bigger sample before just penciling him in to the lineup. There has to be a bigger body of work there to just hand him a spot on our roster.

If you proceed with a plan that the kid is going to be in the lineup and a productive part of the team and something happens (injury or can't cut it) then you're out of luck. If you proceed with a plan to bring in some depth, let Joey play a lot of minutes in the AHL and be your first forward call-up and he surprises, then you have something to work with and you have some options.

Find some free agency gems that can produce some points like Mason Raymond did.

Some good depth in free agency on forward I wouldn't mind adding:

Lee Stempniak
Dustin Penner

Big no on Stempniak. The guy always seems to get signed for $2M-$3M and just never puts up the numbers to justify it. When he's not putting up numbers, he doesn't do much else. Never been a fan.

Another no on Penner. I don't think Avs fans have the patience to wait until the playoffs to see if he's gonna show up. Plus, I don't see him having the wheels to play with this group.

 

[Gabe the Babe]

You do realize that two serviceable top 6 and excellent top 9 players for $7.5 million is a significant upgrade over one top 6 player at $7 million? It's a 25 point difference in production (assuming 50 points from Grabo, 35 from Kulemin vs. 60 for Stastny). I hope you also realize that the entire premise of my suggestion is based on them taking a discount and not being overpaid.

The fact that Grabovski is an Avs fan alone makes me want him. I'm not saying it's realistic, and I wouldn't mind Goc and Kulemin, or just Goc, but preferably we can snag that package that consists of two players who are great defensively and very good offensively. If Stastny refuses a fair contract of $6 m a year.

I agree you with that Komarov is not the answer, though.

I'd also like to add that I think Avs stand pat on D, or add only a minor (and debatable) upgrade in someone like Greene. I don't think Markov is available and if he was Avs probably won't go after him. Niskanen is too expensive. There are no other options.

First off. Stastny is good for over 70 easily. But let's say 60 for the sake of argument.

You're basically suggesting that you'd rather have Stastny and his 60 and McGinn and his 40 over Crosby and his 100? I mean that is two serviceable top 6 players, right?

 

[Avsboy]

First off. Stastny is good for over 70 easily. But let's say 60 for the sake of argument.

You're basically suggesting that you'd rather have Stastny and his 60 and McGinn and his 40 over Crosby and his 100? I mean that is two serviceable top 6 players, right?

I would take Grabo and Kulemin combined over Stastny. Based on the versatility two players vs. one affords, based on the depth two players provides, and as I mentioned based on production. I never mentioned Crosby, and never said that this could apply in all cases.

But I'll give it a shot, to make the argument consistent. Grabo and Kulemin offer substantially more than Stastny combined in terms of production. Stastny + McGinn don't offer more than Crosby. We're talking about a 42% increase in point production (85pts for Grabo and Kulemin vs. 60 pts for Stastny) If we're talking Getzlaf and his 87 pts and someone who produces 55 pts (lets say Jeff Skinner), and we can have them combined for the same price as Crosby, I would take the two players at the same price as Crosby over Crosby.

But Stastny isn't Crosby.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

First off. Stastny is good for over 70 easily.

I wouldn't say that. Stastny hasn't hit 70 points in 4 seasons, and is now leaving his prime years of production.

 

[Drury_Sakic]

Maybe a solution to fix the D and the forward depth issue if Stastny walks?


Avs:
Lecavalier (500k retained)
Coburn
Flyers 2nd Round Pick 2014 (48th overall)

Flyers:
PA Parenteau
Wilson
Avs 1st Round Pick 2014 (23rd overall)


There is a bit of a cap gamble with Vinny, but fiscally next year is 6 million, the following is 4, and the next two years are 3. Make the Flyers keep 500k per year and in the last 3 years of the deal the Avs are only paying out 4.5, 2.5, and 2.5 million. The cap hit will be 4 million based on the 500k retained as well. Clearly, the hope would be he fits in as a 2nd line player after a hard working summer and under Roy. But at worst you slot him in as an improvement on the 3rd line, moving Mitchell to the wing or 4th line center. Moving Wilson clears 2.25 million in both salary and cap space on year one as well, so the bite is not as big. The reward for taking the risk on Vinny is Coburn, who slots in well with either EJ or Barrie.

Flyers take a relatively large salary and cap dump moving Vinny and Coburn. PAP gives them an affordable scoring winger. Wilson is a decent AHL/NHL call up, but is really moved to save the Avs some money and to help absorb Vinny's contract. The teams swap 1st and 2nd round picks to balance out the value. Flyers gain some flexibility over the summer if they want to add depth or go after another big target.


I would TRY

O'Reilly-Duchene-McGinn
Lando-Vinny-Mac
Tanguay-Mitchell-UFA (a solid 2 way player with some speed )
Talbot-Cliche-McLeod

Coburn-EJ
Hejda-Barrie
Holden-Guenin

Depth
Bords
Hishon (gets a chance to compete with Cliche for the 4th line center job)
UFA D man (either signing someone to bump Guenin down the chart to 7 or a vet 7th D man)

Avs have options with Vinny if he is unable to lock down the 2nd line center spot. You can try him on the wing with Duchene and O'Reilly. Move him to wing and Mac to center on the 2nd line. Drop him to center the 3rd line, pull Tanguay up and shift Mitchell to wing. And so on.

 

[Freaky Styley]

I wonder if Winnik holds any ill will towards the Avs. I know TPS says he loves Anaheim, but wouldn't it be great to sign 2 UFAs like Winnink and McClement right now? Great players on the team at the wrong time.

 

[Gabe the Babe]

I wouldn't say that. Stastny hasn't hit 70 points in 4 seasons, and is now leaving his prime years of production.

I would say that 26-34 are when most players peaks are and he's right in the middle of that.

He had 60 in 71 last year. Good for a 69.2 point pace. Thats after a slow start to the season for him as well. For his whole career he averages 69.8 points a season.

So, yeah, I think he's good for 70, and yeah I think he'll he good for 70 or so for another 5 years or so because his best assets are things that don't deterereorate at 30.

All of that while playing the hardest minutes in the league defensively and being a leader of this team with an A on his chest.

 

[Gabe the Babe]

I would take Grabo and Kulemin combined over Stastny. Based on the versatility two players vs. one affords, based on the depth two players provides, and as I mentioned based on production. I never mentioned Crosby, and never said that this could apply in all cases.

But I'll give it a shot, to make the argument consistent. Grabo and Kulemin offer substantially more than Stastny combined in terms of production. Stastny + McGinn don't offer more than Crosby. We're talking about a 42% increase in point production (85pts for Grabo and Kulemin vs. 60 pts for Stastny) If we're talking Getzlaf and his 87 pts and someone who produces 55 pts (lets say Jeff Skinner), and we can have them combined for the same price as Crosby, I would take the two players at the same price as Crosby over Crosby.

But Stastny isn't Crosby.

That's not how hockey works, man... sorry. You don't add up points from two people and say that they produce more than one guy. You know why?

Take last year. Mitchell had 32, McGinn had 38... that's a grand total of 70. You know who had 70? Duchene. You know what isn't as valuable as Duchene? McGinn and Mitchell.

It's simple man.

Ovechkin was barely a ppg last year. Doesn't mean we can trade Washington ROR and Mitchell for him because they out produced him together...

I'm sorry if you actually still think that having Grabo and Kulemin play in our bottom 6 for 7 million is better than having a 1st line forward for the same price.

 

[Taak19]

I wonder if Winnik holds any ill will towards the Avs. I know TPS says he loves Anaheim, but wouldn't it be great to sign 2 UFAs like Winnink and McClement right now? Great players on the team at the wrong time.

I'd love for the Avs to pick those 2 up again as long as they are fine with 3rd line roles.

Move Cliche out of town and Mitchell to 4C.