Improving D (targets and cost?)

[scarbrow21]

It's very possible that a new coach could get us back "good Buff"

too bad it wasn't Julien! I think we all let out a sigh when MTL signed him. Despite what others thought, I actually think he may have landed here because the other options seemed worse!

Isles-No idea where they're going as a franchise
FLA- Ownership that just screams crazy
VAN- Can't even decide if they're rebuilding or not
DAL- Had potential, this year lost 3 of their top 6 D and results show it
ARZ/COL- Nobody wants to go there

 

[Whileee]

It's very possible that a new coach could get us back "good Buff"

...we got "best Buff" under Maurice (in 2014/15 and 2015/16).

 

[surixon]

...we got "best Buff" under Maurice (in 2014/15 and 2015/16).

Buff needs to be accountable for his own play at this point. He's a veteran and it shouldn't matter who his coach is.

 

[Peggy]

Not till the end of next season (2017-18). Then, he can be traded to 17 teams as he needs to provide a list of 14 no-go teams.

Why next season?
I'm okay with that tho
He'd be a pretty good player if he played less minutes and cost less
But his contract his too much for the effort he gives

We "should" look better next year so maybe we'plan get a better buff if assigned the proper minutes and the teams record is better

I just think buff doesn't have a future on this team. Don't know why we signed such a huge contract with that guy. I would've rather traded him.

 

[zsam]

Why next season?
I'm okay with that tho
He'd be a pretty good player if he played less minutes and cost less
But his contract his too much for the effort he gives

We "should" look better next year so maybe we'plan get a better buff if assigned the proper minutes and the teams record is better

I just think buff doesn't have a future on this team. Don't know why we signed such a huge contract with that guy. I would've rather traded him.

Because he has a full no-move clause for the first 2 years of his contract.

I hear you re Buff ... Depending what they do with left side, he might be needed to babysit another young LHD. Same he did with Josh this year. Then, if you ask me, he should be traded while he can still bring some value.

 

[Whileee]

Buff needs to be accountable for his own play at this point. He's a veteran and it shouldn't matter who his coach is.

Completely agree. If you have to change coaches to motivate your $7.6M 30+ defenseman, the problem is not the coach.

 

[lomiller1]

It's very possible that a new coach could get us back "good Buff"

TBH most of the difference between good Buff and bad Buff is goal-tending. The offense is still there either way, as are the same mistakes, if you get a goaltender who doesn't let every mistake hit the back of the net you tend not to notice them as much. He's probably dropped a bit this year, which shouldn't be unexpected given he;s over 30. He's still pretty good though.

 

[Daximus]

TBH most of the difference between good Buff and bad Buff is goal-tending. The offense is still there either way, as are the same mistakes, if you get a goaltender who doesn't let every mistake hit the back of the net you tend not to notice them as much. He's probably dropped a bit this year, which shouldn't be unexpected given he;s over 30. He's still pretty good though.

He'll be better with less minutes. Trouba is looking better and better and will soon be our #1 guy I think. Good Buff was only really ever good at generating chances. I'm not going to pretend he was always good in his own end because I'd be lying to myself. He is adequate but that's really the best he'll ever be there. Trouba is shooting a lot more which tells me they have given him the green light and now that Mojo is backing him up we'll see Trouba rush the puck and jump into the play a lot more. Troubs is on a 45 point pace over a full season right now, well ahead of Buff at the same age. If he can keep growing like this, and he will because he's 22 he will be a surefire #1 dman in this league. Add to that we have Mojo whose progressing at a very good pace as well and we have the making of quite easily the best pairing this franchise has ever seen IMO. I'd take a 45-50 point responsible two-way dman in Trouba over any Buff we've had over the years. Hopefully Trouba will stay long term.

 

[JetsFan815]

Jets D will be worse next season I fear. Buff, Enstrom another year older. Postma in all likelyhood moving on and joining the list of seemingly decent players (Redmond, Kulda, O'Dell) never given a serious shot by this organisation. And while people have high hopes that the Jets will suddenly become better evaluators of D talent, all we can really do is go by their record. Judging by that, they are going to go hard after Jamie Oleksiak. People should prepare themselves for the disappointment. I fear the only way the Jets D is actually better is if they get lucky with Poolman. Buff is going to be the least of everyone's worries next season when we have Oleksiak and Chiarot patrolling the blueline next fall

 

[Daximus]

Jets D will be worse next season I fear. Buff, Enstrom another year older. Postma in all likelyhood moving on and joining the list of seemingly decent players (Redmond, Kulda, O'Dell) never given a serious shot by this organisation. And while people have high hopes that the Jets will suddenly become better evaluators of D talent, all we can really do is go by their record. Judging by that, they are going to go hard after Jamie Oleksiak. People should prepare themselves for the disappointment. I feat the only way the Jets D is actually better is if they get lucky with Poolman. Buff is going to be the least of everyone's worries next season when we have Oleksiak and Chiarot patrolling the blueline next fall

I think Enstrom is probably done as a top 4. Buff is still very serviceable as a 2nd pairing guy. With Trouba and Mojo playing the way they are I see our top 4 actually getting better next year provided we can find a suitable partner for Buff. Postma will never be anything more than he is. Bottom pairing. We know they are at least capable of identifying solid dmen in the draft, aside from Stanley, which hopefully is a one off.

Morrissey - Trouba
XXX - Buff
Enstrom - Myers

Sign Niku and Poolman and play them on the Moose for a season or a few while we transition out Enstrom and Myers.

That dcore doesn't look to bad. Trading for a young cost controlled 2nd pairing dman should be priority #2 after finding a goalie this off season. We target a shutdown guy who can transition and pass well in the Vlasic mold. We may need to use a big fish to do it. IMO Wheeler or Little could be on the table for the right player depending on a lot of factors.

 

[garret9]

TBH most of the difference between good Buff and bad Buff is goal-tending. The offense is still there either way, as are the same mistakes, if you get a goaltender who doesn't let every mistake hit the back of the net you tend not to notice them as much. He's probably dropped a bit this year, which shouldn't be unexpected given he;s over 30. He's still pretty good though.

 

[garret9]

I want to point out Byfuglien on 2nd pair behind Trouba isn't a big deal. It's not unusual for the second best defender being on the second pair and Buff will still make a lot of minutes.

It's his worst season as a Jet and he's still performing as an elite #2. Not just a #2, but elite #2. He could even bounce back next season and then we'd have two bonafide #1 calibre dfenders in our top four. He'll decline with age but it's likely going to be a long while until he's not serviceable in the Jets top-four.

 

[Male75FromFinland]

Buff needs to be accountable for his own play at this point. He's a veteran and it shouldn't matter who his coach is.

Absolutely true, with that salary there should be no reason to wonder where is his attitude or should we get Alzner to play with him because he is so bad

 

[Male75FromFinland]

I want to point out Byfuglien on 2nd pair behind Trouba isn't a big deal. It's not unusual for the second best defender being on the second pair and Buff will still make a lot of minutes.

It's his worst season as a Jet and he's still performing as an elite #2. Not just a #2, but elite #2. He could even bounce back next season and then we'd have two bonafide #1 calibre dfenders in our top four. He'll decline with age but it's likely going to be a long while until he's not serviceable in the Jets top-four.

Last game was one of the worst games ANY defenseman has played in NHL during 21st century. Buff has been elite in four games before all-star break, other games he has been liability.

[mod]

 

[ps241]

TBH most of the difference between good Buff and bad Buff is goal-tending. The offense is still there either way, as are the same mistakes, if you get a goaltender who doesn't let every mistake hit the back of the net you tend not to notice them as much. He's probably dropped a bit this year, which shouldn't be unexpected given he;s over 30. He's still pretty good though.

He'll be better with less minutes. Trouba is looking better and better and will soon be our #1 guy I think. Good Buff was only really ever good at generating chances. I'm not going to pretend he was always good in his own end because I'd be lying to myself. He is adequate but that's really the best he'll ever be there. Trouba is shooting a lot more which tells me they have given him the green light and now that Mojo is backing him up we'll see Trouba rush the puck and jump into the play a lot more. Troubs is on a 45 point pace over a full season right now, well ahead of Buff at the same age. If he can keep growing like this, and he will because he's 22 he will be a surefire #1 dman in this league. Add to that we have Mojo whose progressing at a very good pace as well and we have the making of quite easily the best pairing this franchise has ever seen IMO. I'd take a 45-50 point responsible two-way dman in Trouba over any Buff we've had over the years. Hopefully Trouba will stay long term.

Great posts boys.

This season we are seeing a changing of the guard. Trouba and his camp were right about him because he is a bonafide #1 in the making. The silver lining with Myers unfortunate injury plagued season from hell is that it did clear the way for Trouba to play right side top 4 with a talented partner and receive a heavy dose of minutes in all situations. Maurice ran out of options to **** this one up and the results have punched Chevy, PMo, TNSE, and the Jets fan base strait in the nose. So now Trouba has gotten exactly what he asked for and the results are unfolding beautifully. We will soon find out if the issues were usage or whether he really doesn't want to be here? Going forward he is going to get paid and he is our franchise D man. I am having trouble getting my head around him still wanting out for the sake of getting out when he has Morrissey to partner with and has Scheif, Ehlers, and Laine as his core with future talent in the wings like Connor and Roslovic.Time will tell I guess but I remain optimistic.

I agree on your take of Buff I think he is a similar guy but he may be slowly regressing but he is who he has always been. The key will be using him less and yes goaltending to cover up some of his **** ups would be nice.

I am very happy with how Morrissey is progressing.

IF TROUBA is staying then one last season of Toby shouldn't hurt and once Myers gets healthy I would like to see him traded for D assets (an "A" prospect who is ready to play preferably).

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Jets D will be worse next season I fear. Buff, Enstrom another year older. Postma in all likelyhood moving on and joining the list of seemingly decent players (Redmond, Kulda, O'Dell) never given a serious shot by this organisation. And while people have high hopes that the Jets will suddenly become better evaluators of D talent, all we can really do is go by their record. Judging by that, they are going to go hard after Jamie Oleksiak. People should prepare themselves for the disappointment. I fear the only way the Jets D is actually better is if they get lucky with Poolman. Buff is going to be the least of everyone's worries next season when we have Oleksiak and Chiarot patrolling the blueline next fall

I hope they keep Postma but if he is smart he will find a better opportunity elsewhere.

You really have to get over that list of marginal players who were never given a chance here. They were all set free to find opportunity and no one else was too impressed with them either.

The Jets have taken 3 defensemen in the first 2 rounds. Two have turned out very well so far. The 3rd was the latest taken, in a shallow pool and was very questionable but the jury is still out. I count 12 taken in the 3rd round or later, mostly later. Of those we have reasonable hopes that 3 turn into NHL regulars. One 3rd (Green), one 5th (Poolman) and one 7th (Niku) are all showing well so far. That is a very good hit rate for the later rounds if all 3 turn out. Even 2 of the 3 would be a good hit rate.

The problem has been that the Jets have simply not taken enough D in the first 2-3 rounds. There have been three 1sts and two 3rds. One 3rd has busted and one 1st might. The only way they were going to get more was by acquiring more picks in the first 3 rounds.

 

[garret9]

Last game was one of the worst games ANY defenseman has played in NHL during 21st century. Buff has been elite in four games before all-star break, other games he has been liability.

[mod]

I'm sorry...

1) I find it hilariously ironic that you think Buff is for fans that don't have knowledge about hockey. Byfuglien is well respected for being one of the best NHL blue-liners by GMs and scouts, and yes I can actually say this since I talk to those types all the time as a day job.

Ex: I had one non-Jet NHL head coach recently joke that Byfuglien would be both awesome but terrible for his team since the guy can be the best player to have been on the ice for 55 mins of the game and than the worst for 5. He was exaggerating but he understood that it's the fans that dislike Buff that are being fooled by the 5 minutes rather than what he does through most of the game.

Note: I'm not using this as evidence that Byfuglien is bad or good. That would be appeal to authority. I'm just pointing out that your comment that Byfuglien is for fans that do not know hockey is just straight up wrong and if anything it's fans that tend to under appreciate the things Byfuglien does due to overly focusing on the big "whoops" moments.


2) I cannot take you seriously and doubt any will if you are spouting out stuff this excessively exaggerated rhetoric every time and cannot have a proper discussion on Byfuglien with true back and fourth. There are tons on this board that have disagreements with myself on what Byfuglien is and his true value, but I'll let you know that they can at least have civil discussions without just simply shooting out ridiculous statements without any sort of evidence whatsoever.

Byfuglien indeed has his warts. His defensive value, in suppressing goals against, is legitimately poor and even below replacement level this season. Despite these warts, last week when I checked he was still ranked in the top 60 (~35) for best overall impact relative to ice time for even strength minutes in the entire NHL for the 180 most commonly used defenders.

 

[Daximus]

I think the biggest thing is Buff is just playing to much. Decrease his ice time in all situations and I think he likely looks much better. We are witnessing a changing of the guard right now I think to where the team will start giving Trouba a lot more responsibility. His shots are way up this year and maybe it's just me but I feel more comfortable with him on the ice. I like that he doesn't have to rely on his partner or goaltender to bail him out as much. He just times his pinches and jumps better IMO. Something it seems Buff is getting worse at with age.

 

[Peggy]

I think the biggest thing is Buff is just playing to much. Decrease his ice time in all situations and I think he likely looks much better. We are witnessing a changing of the guard right now I think to where the team will start giving Trouba a lot more responsibility. His shots are way up this year and maybe it's just me but I feel more comfortable with him on the ice. I like that he doesn't have to rely on his partner or goaltender to bail him out as much. He just times his pinches and jumps better IMO. Something it seems Buff is getting worse at with age.

Buff seems like the type to giver, but once he's out of energy, that's it
He probably gets hockey'd out quick
Especially when he's playing that much
I think he still wants to be a very good player, but less responsibilty?change the A next year

He still costs too much tho

 

[Daximus]

Buff seems like the type to giver, but once he's out of energy, that's it
He probably gets hockey'd out quick
Especially when he's playing that much
I think he still wants to be a very good player, but less responsibilty?change the A next year

He still costs too much tho

Yeah that is the main issue for me. I think he could get in the way of keeping someone with more value in the future but he is absolutely tradeable once July 1st 2018 hits. I'm sure he will still have value to even if we have to retain a little. I just wish we could have signed him for a bit cheaper. At the time the deal had to be done though.

 

[The finnish blast]

I think the biggest thing is Buff is just playing to much. Decrease his ice time in all situations and I think he likely looks much better.

Yeah decrease his ice time, get rid of Stuart and Postma. This team would look so much better after these moves.

 

[Daximus]

Yeah decrease his ice time, get rid of Stuart and Postma. This team would look so much better after these moves.

Also find a solid 2nd pairing LHD, acquire a young consistent netminder, hire a new coach who puts an emphasis on a speedy transition game and that's it.

 

[csk]

Dream D corps

Someone Good-Trouba
Enstrom-Byfuglien
Morrissey-Postma
Someone Okay

If Enstrom doesn't rebound, swap him with Morrissey.

Myers is gone b/c his impact relative to cap hit is pretty terrible. Postma is cheaper and not that much worse.

 

[Daximus]

Dream D corps

Someone Good-Trouba
Enstrom-Byfuglien
Morrissey-Postma
Someone Okay

If Enstrom doesn't rebound, swap him with Morrissey.

Myers is gone b/c his impact relative to cap hit is pretty terrible. Postma is cheaper and not that much worse.

Mine is if we sign a UFA this summer.

Morrissey - Trouba
Del Zotto - Buff
Enstrom - Myers

Not sure if Del Zotto will resign or not but he can skate well enough and can move the puck. Maybe a change of scenery will do him good.

or we trade a vet for a really good piece that has more room to grow than Del Zotto.

 

[csk]

Mine is if we sign a UFA this summer.

Morrissey - Trouba
Del Zotto - Buff
Enstrom - Myers

Not sure if Del Zotto will resign or not but he can skate well enough and can move the puck. Maybe a change of scenery will do him good.

or we trade a vet for a really good piece that has more room to grow than Del Zotto.

I don't mind Del Zotto, but it depends on the $. I wouldn't want him playing with Buff though, that pair might be too offense-minded.

Edit: upon looking up Del Zotto's current sallary, I think he would be too expensive. Especially if we have ~11 mil playing on the 3rd pair