Improving D (targets and cost?)

[scarbrow21]

I've floated a many ideas as to guys the Jets should be targeting for D. Of course there are many factors without answers you can base your scenarios around such as:
-If Trouba still wants out then...
-Is Myers ever going to be healthy and if not the backup plan is...
-After Tucker Poolman and Logan Stanley (who's a debate among fans as is) we have no real D depth so we should...

So using any scenario who would you target along with what is the cost we should/could have to pay to acquire that player?

Click to read more...

 

[Flair Hay]

There's a lot we can do to get a bit better. But to me, anything short of getting a top pair guy in some way shape or form won't get it done if we want to be a good playoff team. These guys aren't available in free agency and if they are the odds are almost zilch they come here.

Doesn't have to be a great offensive guy. Just more of a Hjalmarsson, Vlasic, Larsson type.

We know the value of these guys. Time is now to look at drafting a top pair potential defenseman.

 

[Gil Fisher]

as an aside, I don't think Chevy considers trading Trouba until 2.5-3.0 years from now.

So 1-2 RHD look set with 8 and 33. Myers is a wildcard for now.

Morrissey looks comfortable in 2 LHD and could potentially carry the load on top pairing in the future.

So we need another potential top pairing LHD to put in the mix with Josh.

The bottom pairing looks like Myers/Postma and Chiarot/Poolman/Niku. Should likely be a veteran added to the mix there to bring some certainty/stability.

So my focus would be a 19-22 year-old who can battle with Morrissey in the future for top pairing.

 

[irunthepeg]

There's a lot we can do to get a bit better. But to me, anything short of getting a top pair guy in some way shape or form won't get it done if we want to be a good playoff team. These guys aren't available in free agency and if they are the odds are almost zilch they come here.

Doesn't have to be a great offensive guy. Just more of a Hjalmarsson, Vlasic, Larsson type.

We know the value of these guys. Time is now to look at drafting a top pair potential defenseman.

Agree and I've been saying for years we need a top pairing defenseman. Back to the days of the Toby/Buff pairing... I wanted to trade one of them for a more defensive zone beast to let the other one play more offensively.

 

[Gil Fisher]

There's a lot we can do to get a bit better. But to me, anything short of getting a top pair guy in some way shape or form won't get it done if we want to be a good playoff team. These guys aren't available in free agency and if they are the odds are almost zilch they come here.

Doesn't have to be a great offensive guy. Just more of a Hjalmarsson, Vlasic, Larsson type.

We know the value of these guys. Time is now to look at drafting a top pair potential defenseman.

on the draft issue, it seems that most of the defenseman are in the back half of the first round and only one in the top 10. and without much knowledge of liljegren, he looks Toby-sized. which could be fine if you can put up with the mouth-breathers for the next 8 years.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

#5/6 LHD - improve that position, please. I think we have a good defensive crew, especially when Myers is around, but we have a distinct problem on the 3rd pairing on the left-hand side. When healthy:

Enstrom - Buff
Morrissey - Trouba
??? - Myers

Switch/swap Enstrom and Morrissey as required, but I'm assuming that Morrissey - Trouba will eventually become our top pairing over time. Fill that LHD position to play alongside Myers, and that's a formidable crew.

Assuming a reasonable d-zone system, which I won't get into here.

 

[ps241]

on the draft issue, it seems that most of the defenseman are in the back half of the first round and only one in the top 10. and without much knowledge of liljegren, he looks Toby-sized. which could be fine if you can put up with the mouth-breathers for the next 8 years.

Liljegren is a bit closer to Karlsson's size. He is a very dynamic skater and has top end individual offensive skills (sweet wrister). For his prototype he isn't bad defensively but make no mistake he is going to defend best by having the puck and tilting the ice.

I will be paying close attention to him in the U18's this year if he is there.

 

[Jimmyjets]

What we need to do somewhat hinges on Trouba. Regardless of if he wants out or not I hold him for the next 3 years because if he leaves our immediate #1 need probably becomes a young RHD with top pair potential as Buff is over 30 and Myers is only under contract for 2 more seasons.

The expansion draft really provides us with a golden opportunity to address this issue as teams will be willing to move defensemen they normally wouldn't.

Players we could target either from their teams, or from Vegas once selected in the expansion draft would be:
- Methot (LHD)
- Jokipakka (LHD)
- Dumoulin (LHD)
- Forbort (LHD)

- Vatanen (RHD)
- Orlov (RHD)
- Merrill (RHD)
- Pysyk (RHD)

I'm assuming Vegas' D will be:
Scandella - Shattenkirk
DeHaan - Manson
Davidson - TVR

(If Vat's gets traded by the Ducks they can protect Manson though.)

For RHD really I'd sign Tucker Poolman hopefully and he can probably step in and play bottom pair minutes if there's an injury and I'd roll with Trouba, Buff and Myers. If we can grab a LHD like Dumoulin from Vegas for waiver exempt forward prospects (Spacek, Foley, Krakovsky) it fixes the D for next season and doesn't drastically hurt the prospect pool.

Morrissey - Trouba
Enstrom - Buff
Dumoulin - Myers
Chiarot - Poolman

 

[scarbrow21]

So what are the potential trades/free agents the Jets should look at.

Right now as I see it ANH, PHI, and CAR make sense for the jets

ANH- Montour, Theodore, Vatanen, Fowler, Manson
PHI- Gostisbehere, Provorov, Morin, Sanheim
CAR- Bean, Pesce, Slavin,

The ones I'd be going after the hardest being Manson, Slavin or Bean.

Those would cost us though. Probably Kyle Connor or Jack Roslovic + but at this point we need to start using our FWD depth to fill our lack of D.
Players I'd move (that CAR would even want) to get one of those guys would be:
Perrault, Dano, Copp, Armia, Lemieux, Connor, Roslovic.

 

[scarbrow21]

What we need to do somewhat hinges on Trouba. Regardless of if he wants out or not I hold him for the next 3 years because if he leaves our immediate #1 need probably becomes a young RHD with top pair potential as Buff is over 30 and Myers is only under contract for 2 more seasons.

The expansion draft really provides us with a golden opportunity to address this issue as teams will be willing to move defensemen they normally wouldn't.

Players we could target either from their teams, or from Vegas once selected in the expansion draft would be:
- Methot (LHD)
- Jokipakka (LHD)
- Dumoulin (LHD)
- Forbort (LHD)

- Vatanen (RHD)
- Orlov (RHD)
- Merrill (RHD)
- Pysyk (RHD)

I'm assuming Vegas' D will be:
Scandella - Shattenkirk
DeHaan - Manson
Davidson - TVR

(If Vat's gets traded by the Ducks they can protect Manson though.)

For RHD really I'd sign Tucker Poolman hopefully and he can probably step in and play bottom pair minutes if there's an injury and I'd roll with Trouba, Buff and Myers. If we can grab a LHD like Dumoulin from Vegas for waiver exempt forward prospects (Spacek, Foley, Krakovsky) it fixes the D for next season and doesn't drastically hurt the prospect pool.

Morrissey - Trouba
Enstrom - Buff
Dumoulin - Myers
Chiarot - Poolman

I'd love to see the Jets get manson... He's prototypical stay at home D with great possession numbers! He's my number 1 desire for D at the moment! Love the thinking though because you're right, this year because of the expansion draft is the time to improve our D from teams who can't protect all of them!

 

[Whileee]

What about Holden's innovative concept of trading for a expansion draft eligible D and then protecting 5 D (3-5-1).

Scheifele
Little
Wheeler

Enstrom
Buff
Trouba
Myers
New XD

After the XD defensemen will likely be at a bit of a premium.

Anaheim is the obvious target for a pre-XD trade, since they'll need to move a D. Fowler, Vatanen or Manson (least likely) seem to be the likely trade candidates. That Bieksa and Vermette NMCs are going to bite them in the XD.

 

[Male75FromFinland]

Byfuglien for Datsiyuk & Bolland contracts would help our teams leadership, poweplay, penalty killing, evenstrenght and give solution for expansion draft.

 

[Gil Fisher]

Byfuglien for Datsiyuk & Bolland contracts would help our teams leadership, poweplay, penalty killing, evenstrenght and give solution for expansion draft.

and kill us 5v5....where 75% of the game is played

 

[Peggy]

Can we trade buff?
He costs way too much

 

[Guerzy]

I liked what Garret mentioned the other day..

highly agree

Optimally we want something along the lines of:
Morrissey - Trouba
x1 - Byfuglien
Enstrom - Myers
x2 - x3

X1: You want a young defender who is either expansion exempt or unlikely to be picked up in the expansion draft. Getting legitimately top-four may be difficult/expensive, so you may want a guy like Morrissey-lite who is trending to be that guy but isn't quite there yet. If we somehow nail an underrated big fish, then we can swap Morrissey and x1.

x2: Likely Chiarot and he's not terrible for this spot. Regular 3rd pairing is a bit much IMO but he makes fine for a guy to fill in, especially as his PK isn't too shabby. This means we need to cut ties with Stuart somehow though. One year in the AHL isn't too bad to finish a career I guess?

x3: This is Postma, if re-signed. If the Jets want to save cap hit and $$, Postma could play in the Myers place instead and you can look at some cheap FA to fill in x3.

 

[Gil Fisher]

I liked what Garret mentioned the other day..

I would look at Sergachyev then also as a possibility. I'm not sure Montreal would have any interest unless they believe Julien and Price can lead to a cup run. I'd be inclined to build a package around Perreault and Lemieux (because that's too obvious and I don't like to think much).

 

[Guerzy]

I would look at Sergachyev then also as a possibility. I'm not sure Montreal would have any interest unless they believe Julien and Price can lead to a cup run. I'd be inclined to build a package around Perreault and Lemieux (because that's too obvious and I don't like to think much).

I think the only realistic way of prying Sergachev out of Montreal's hands would be to deal Little or Wheeler in some sort of deal for him, given they're in win-now mode and led by Price, Weber, Pacioretty, etc. I don't know what their cap situation is, but from what I have read Sergachev is very highly thought of and I think it would take a star/elite player on our part, one that would really hurt to give up, in order to acquire him.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

on the draft issue, it seems that most of the defenseman are in the back half of the first round and only one in the top 10. and without much knowledge of liljegren, he looks Toby-sized. which could be fine if you can put up with the mouth-breathers for the next 8 years.

???
Toby Enstrom - 5'10, 180
Tim Liljegren - 6', 192
Duncan Keith - 6'1, 192

Some other highly touted D:
Cale Makar - 5'11, 179
Miro Heiskanen - 6', 174
Urho Vaakanainen - 6'1, 187
Pierre-Olivier Joseph - 6', 161

 

[Gil Fisher]

???
Toby Enstrom - 5'10, 180
Tim Liljegren - 6', 192
Duncan Keith - 6'1, 192

Some other highly touted D:
Cale Makar - 5'11, 179
Miro Heiskanen - 6', 174
Urho Vaakanainen - 6'1, 187
Pierre-Olivier Joseph - 6', 161

My bad. I must have come across an old number, because I had him at 170.

carry on.

 

[KCjetsfan]

Byfuglien for Datsiyuk & Bolland contracts would help our teams leadership, poweplay, penalty killing, evenstrenght and give solution for expansion draft.

you do fully commit to the gimmick, so bravo for that i guess.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

What we need to do somewhat hinges on Trouba. Regardless of if he wants out or not I hold him for the next 3 years because if he leaves our immediate #1 need probably becomes a young RHD with top pair potential as Buff is over 30 and Myers is only under contract for 2 more seasons.

The expansion draft really provides us with a golden opportunity to address this issue as teams will be willing to move defensemen they normally wouldn't.

Players we could target either from their teams, or from Vegas once selected in the expansion draft would be:
- Methot (LHD)
- Jokipakka (LHD)
- Dumoulin (LHD)
- Forbort (LHD)

- Vatanen (RHD)
- Orlov (RHD)
- Merrill (RHD)
- Pysyk (RHD)

I'm assuming Vegas' D will be:
Scandella - Shattenkirk
DeHaan - Manson
Davidson - TVR

(If Vat's gets traded by the Ducks they can protect Manson though.)

For RHD really I'd sign Tucker Poolman hopefully and he can probably step in and play bottom pair minutes if there's an injury and I'd roll with Trouba, Buff and Myers. If we can grab a LHD like Dumoulin from Vegas for waiver exempt forward prospects (Spacek, Foley, Krakovsky) it fixes the D for next season and doesn't drastically hurt the prospect pool.

Morrissey - Trouba
Enstrom - Buff
Dumoulin - Myers
Chiarot - Poolman

If we hold Trouba for 3 years - without extending him long term - he walks. We are not going to trade him while we are in the play-offs. If, by some catastrophe we are still not a PO team we are not getting good value for him as he will be a pending UFA in 1 more season and clearly going to take that route.

Agree the XD should create some opportunity to shore up the 3rd pair at the very least. Trading with LV after the XD may be the smart way to go. Unless something falls in our lap beforehand.

 

[CaptainChef]

What about Holden's innovative concept of trading for a expansion draft eligible D and then protecting 5 D (3-5-1).

Scheifele
Little
Wheeler

Enstrom
Buff
Trouba
Myers
New XD

After the XD defensemen will likely be at a bit of a premium.

Anaheim is the obvious target for a pre-XD trade, since they'll need to move a D. Fowler, Vatanen or Manson (least likely) seem to be the likely trade candidates. That Bieksa and Vermette NMCs are going to bite them in the XD.

Some great discussion here. As much as I'd like to get down to where we can protect most of our young forwards in the XD (the 3+7 + 1) setup, there is indeed merit in considering going 5+3 +1.

Defense is our biggest need & will continue to be going forward. Several teams are trying to get down to 3 D for the XD, so there will be some good deals to be made. Time to be proactive & address our greatest needs Chevy.

 

[CaptainChef]

I liked what Garret mentioned the other day..

Some defensemen with the largest difference between their XPM rank and TOI rank
(notes: XPM is only about 77% of WAR and not all. Also, TOI can be low due to missed games from injury rather than low usage)

Martin Marincin
Mark Barberio
Robert Bortuzzo
Adam Pelech
Matt Tennyson
Chris Tanev (one ex: of missed games from injury)
Kevan Miller
Brayden McNabb
Colin Miller
Xavier Oullet
Brendan Smith
Greg Pateryn
Patrik Nemeth
Matt Greene
Brandon Davidson

Not saying these are great options for the Jets needs, but starting list of guys who are better than their ice time.

He's there eventually but not as extreme. This list I'm making is XPM, not WAR, as WAR takes time to calculate. A lot of Postma's WAR is driven by his high scoring and not his XPM. Postma is 117th in WAR but 135th in XPM. I'm also using TOI here and not TOI/GP. Postma ranks 158th in TOI, but I know from past work he ranks around 180th in TOI/GP.

Trouba is higher though, which is hilarious (4th in XPM and 105th in TOI. Note he missed games too though).

Other guys with big differences in TOI vs performance:

Brian Campbell
Patrick Wiercioch
Calvin De Haan
Josh Manson
Shayne Gostisbehere
David Schlemko
Markus Nutivaara
Ryan Sproul

More of Garret's potential target Ds

 

[scarbrow21]

Another Option for the 3rd pairing (who would still need to be protected unfortunately) is Derrick Pouliot
He's 23 LHD and spent a majority of the year in the minors and is RFA at seasons end but might not cost much to resign. Might be able to get him for mid-level prospect/player and a pick. He doesn't put up much points but he's a stay at home D and again, very good possession numbers (albeit sheltered minutes most likely).

 

[Huffer]

Combining the idea of going with something like this:

Morrissey - Trouba
x1 - Byfuglien
Enstrom - Myers
x2 - x3

With going out and getting a D to be X1 and going 5/3/1, I think a guy who could be available (because they have their own expansion issues) is De Haan. He'd be a nice fit IMO.