News Article: Iiro Pakarinen about his time as an Oiler, journalist relates to Puljujärvi (Finnish media)

oobga

Tier 2 Fan
Aug 1, 2003
23,202
18,206
Only after Shero sat him down.

Ultimately I think they need someone who is more communicative here because it's a young team with a lot of players still learning different aspects of the game.

A coach who doesn't provide feedback is of little use to this team.

If he didn't have a coach willing to listen to Hall as well, that sit down would have got them nowhere though. A number of articles came out after that with Hall talking about how receptive Hynes is to his own input, and now appreciative Hynes is to the information and opinions Hall provides him. I'm really doubting that kind of relationship could have ever formed here with McLellan. Hynes is the first coach Hall has had beyond his ELC years that he could have open dialog with, aside from maybe 4 months with Nelson. I honestly don't blame Hall for never buying in with Eakins or McLellan, the cocky know nothing know-it-all types.
 

North

Registered User
Jun 25, 2009
15,697
13,298
If he didn't have a coach willing to listen to Hall as well, that sit down would have got them nowhere though. A number of articles came out after that with Hall talking about how receptive Hynes is to his own input, and now appreciative Hynes is to the information and opinions Hall provides him. I'm really doubting that kind of relationship could have ever formed here with McLellan. Hynes is the first coach Hall has had beyond his ELC years that he could have open dialog with, aside from maybe 4 months with Nelson. I honestly don't blame Hall for never buying in with Eakins or McLellan, the cocky know nothing know-it-all types.

Krueger? Renney? I'm not absolving this team for being absolutely abysmal while Hall was here but lets not pretend that Hall didn't have coaches he could have talked to and listened to if he had wanted to.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CycloneSweep

oobga

Tier 2 Fan
Aug 1, 2003
23,202
18,206
Krueger? Renney? I'm not absolving this team for being absolutely abysmal while Hall was here but lets not pretend that Hall didn't have coaches he could have talked to and listened to if he had wanted to.

His quote about not listening was very general. I'm sure the contrast he was drawing on was Hynes vs his most recent coaches. I think he genuinely liked playing for both Renney and Krueger, but at that point in his career, he was just a young guy trying to find his way, looking to guys like Horcoff to be leaders. He had to start coming into his own as a leader on the team when Eakins took over, and that's when the upward trend the team appeared to be on came completely crashing down, and he lived through 3 years, excluding a bit of time with nelson, where the coaches ego was the largest entity in the room.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aerrol

North

Registered User
Jun 25, 2009
15,697
13,298
His quote about not listening was very general. I'm sure the contrast he was drawing on was Hynes vs his most recent coaches. I think he genuinely liked playing for both Renney and Krueger, but at that point in his career, he was just a young guy trying to find his way, looking to guys like Horcoff to be leaders. He had to start coming into his own as a leader on the team when Eakins took over, and that's when the upward trend the team appeared to be on came completely crashing down, and he lived through 3 years, excluding a bit of time with nelson, where the coaches ego was the largest entity in the room.

I'm just basing my opinion on what he said with regards to the coaches. Anything else doesn't matter to me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Daryls Nose

Fourier

Registered User
Dec 29, 2006
25,612
19,903
Waterloo Ontario
The NHL isn't a development league. Guys like Pakarainen sit because they aren't good enough. Why would the coach waste their time telling a player sorry the other guys are better. Obviously, there are some young players in the league still developing, and those players most likely get more communication. Puljujarvi spent some of the time in his games off watching the game with Viveiros for example.

Ina a league with a salary cap that pretty much forces you to play guys who are not fully ready it absolutely is a development league. It may not be the primary source location for developing most players but if your coach expects everyone on the team to be fully NHL ready then they are coaching in the wrong era.
 

Barrsy

Registered User
May 14, 2017
3,071
3,307
His quote about not listening was very general. I'm sure the contrast he was drawing on was Hynes vs his most recent coaches. I think he genuinely liked playing for both Renney and Krueger, but at that point in his career, he was just a young guy trying to find his way, looking to guys like Horcoff to be leaders. He had to start coming into his own as a leader on the team when Eakins took over, and that's when the upward trend the team appeared to be on came completely crashing down, and he lived through 3 years, excluding a bit of time with nelson, where the coaches ego was the largest entity in the room.

Like a mind reader.Can even tell exactly how many years back Halls referring to. With even a further few months exception. Very impressive and quick thinking (or mind reading). Especially when the post you were responding to destroyed the narrative that was been pitched with respect to Halls listening (or not) to coaches.
 

oobga

Tier 2 Fan
Aug 1, 2003
23,202
18,206
Like a mind reader.Can even tell exactly how many years back Halls referring to. With even a further few months exception. Very impressive and quick thinking (or mind reading). Especially when the post you were responding to destroyed the narrative that was been pitched with respect to Halls listening (or not) to coaches.

What did Hall really need to listen to with Renney and Krueger though? Both of those coaches IMO did an excellent job of letting young kids be young kids and find their way in the league. Do you think there were attempts by Renney and Krueger to over-coach our 20 year old star player who was actually over PPG under Krueger? The next step in Hall's development as a complete player was going to happen after both of those guys were long gone, and unfortunately, the coaches there for those times were the kinds of guys that dialog between player and coach were not going to be easy for anyone, no matter how willing.

The point of that article Hall's quote was from was really just to talk up Hynes, and try to come up with reasons why everything was so amazing all of a sudden for Hall in Jersey. Hyperbole was all around in it, like Hall never listening to a coach ever before, and 1 conversation with Shero being a life changing experience. Fact of the matter is, Hall went 3 years here before he left with coaches not interested in any dialog with players to a coach was welcomes it from everyone. I won't agree with anyone that Nelson and Krueger were closed off, because both of those guys worked their butts off with yakupov to try to teach him how he needed to play and to build up his confidence. And there were many comments from those days from the Hall/Nuge/Ebs gang about how much they liked both Kreuger and Nelson.
 
Last edited:

Dynamic

Registered User
Dec 21, 2004
987
617
Edmonton
I took a very basic HR course and the thing that stuck with me is how important communication and more specifically FEEDBACK is. If you want more out of your employees that is crucial and it is universal to any industry, even professional athletes. Fringe player or not, his comments are concerning. Overall I'm not surprised at all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KarmaPolice

t0nedeff

Registered User
Jun 29, 2010
9,985
4,198
SHOCKED utterly shocked that a guy who has no in game adjustment ability but has the ability to completely ignore all reasonable thought pertaining to line ups and line combinations wouldn't be communicating with his players especially when he preaches accountability.
 

Burnt Biscuits

Registered User
May 2, 2010
9,164
3,179
Catch 22 I guess for Hall here. Krueger and Nelson were probably much more collaborative coaches. Eakins and McLellan likely are very resistant to any player input because they believe they are geniuses and have all the answers already. I doubt Hall would have got anywhere trying to have dialog with McLellan. Hall seems to have only opened up by getting the 2-way deal with his coach/management, he wasn't going to just be a robot for someone. Hynes sounds like an extremely collaborative coach that is constantly looking for player input. Good for him, and that probably made it a lot easier for Hall to finally grow up a bit as a leader with his team.
I'd agree that Krueger and Nelson were more collaborative coaches and Eakins and McLellan are more stubborn coaches. Both Eakins and McLellan are open to some feedback though, I know Eakins had grand plans about a training regimen he was going to implement, but he wised up pretty quickly to how grueling the NHL travel schedule is for West Coast teams relative to what he was used to in the AHL. Eakins is hands down the most stubborn coach I've come across and I don't see McLellan being that head strong. As far as who those two listen to I think both McLellan and Eakins are more a fan of the leadership group relaying to them what changes they want and ignoring the rank and file players who aren't part of that group. I think McLellan prefers to get most critical feedback from his assistand/associate coaches, every coach who's worked with him seems to only have great things to say about him and it seems to be a collaborative environment on the coaching staff side of things, the only thing I've heard to the contrary is Gregor stirring up that Manny V. wasn't getting enough input into the PP. For McLellan right now I'd say McDavid, RNH, Russell, Larsson, and Lucic likely have his ear anytime they want it, in Eakins time it seemed he always had time for Ference and Hall.

Hall was very strong headed and was quite resistant to coaching input, I do think being traded though was a bit of a wake-up call to him, which likely made Hynes job easier, getting him to change. Given the vast amount of coaches we had in Hall's time here, being a bit head strong was probably in his best interests if he changed his style for every single one of them, he might of lost sight of what made him such a great player. If Hall was still here I'm sure McLellan would be open to listening to what he had to say, he was the top end of the roster, not some bottom of the rung utility forward; heck Hall and Eberle both were in favor of having McLellan hired after they got a chance to play for him.

oobga said:
His quote about not listening was very general. I'm sure the contrast he was drawing on was Hynes vs his most recent coaches. I think he genuinely liked playing for both Renney and Krueger, but at that point in his career, he was just a young guy trying to find his way, looking to guys like Horcoff to be leaders. He had to start coming into his own as a leader on the team when Eakins took over, and that's when the upward trend the team appeared to be on came completely crashing down, and he lived through 3 years, excluding a bit of time with nelson, where the coaches ego was the largest entity in the room.
I know he said Renney was the scariest of his coaches when it came to making a mistake and getting chewed out for it. Krueger is an all together nice guy that everyone enjoyed having around, but I think he was one of the group that took issue with how he was handling Yak with kid gloves, not forcing him to the same defensive standard. While the other players didn't like it seems like that was the best path for Yak though, he played so much better after he scored and had some confidence, he is one of those players that needed to learn how to score with regularity and then circle back to learn how to play D after, though it's always a hard thing to manage when you hit such a player with reality, they might not catch on even after you sunk the time into allowing them to score at the expense of defense. Many coaches wouldn't allow Yak the freedom that Krueger did, preferring to set a singular standard for team unity and accountability, plus building that standard into the team culture, opposed to taking a varied approach for individual player development.

Almost all the players hated Eakins, but I think Hall was a bit indifferent, Eakins was trying to crack the corsi code and translate that into NHL wins, Hall was driving his corsi results so was rarely in Eakins crosshairs (water bottle gate aside) and got a lot of autonomy. I got no idea who Halls favorite Oiler coach was, but I'd hazard a guess McLellan was in his top 3, likely Nelson in there as well he seemed pretty happy playing for him in the AHL during the lockout.
 

oobga

Tier 2 Fan
Aug 1, 2003
23,202
18,206
I'd agree that Krueger and Nelson were more collaborative coaches and Eakins and McLellan are more stubborn coaches. Both Eakins and McLellan are open to some feedback though, I know Eakins had grand plans about a training regimen he was going to implement, but he wised up pretty quickly to how grueling the NHL travel schedule is for West Coast teams relative to what he was used to in the AHL. Eakins is hands down the most stubborn coach I've come across and I don't see McLellan being that head strong. As far as who those two listen to I think both McLellan and Eakins are more a fan of the leadership group relaying to them what changes they want and ignoring the rank and file players who aren't part of that group. I think McLellan prefers to get most critical feedback from his assistand/associate coaches, every coach who's worked with him seems to only have great things to say about him and it seems to be a collaborative environment on the coaching staff side of things, the only thing I've heard to the contrary is Gregor stirring up that Manny V. wasn't getting enough input into the PP. For McLellan right now I'd say McDavid, RNH, Russell, Larsson, and Lucic likely have his ear anytime they want it, in Eakins time it seemed he always had time for Ference and Hall.

Hall was very strong headed and was quite resistant to coaching input, I do think being traded though was a bit of a wake-up call to him, which likely made Hynes job easier, getting him to change. Given the vast amount of coaches we had in Hall's time here, being a bit head strong was probably in his best interests if he changed his style for every single one of them, he might of lost sight of what made him such a great player. If Hall was still here I'm sure McLellan would be open to listening to what he had to say, he was the top end of the roster, not some bottom of the rung utility forward; heck Hall and Eberle both were in favor of having McLellan hired after they got a chance to play for him.

I know he said Renney was the scariest of his coaches when it came to making a mistake and getting chewed out for it. Krueger is an all together nice guy that everyone enjoyed having around, but I think he was one of the group that took issue with how he was handling Yak with kid gloves, not forcing him to the same defensive standard. While the other players didn't like it seems like that was the best path for Yak though, he played so much better after he scored and had some confidence, he is one of those players that needed to learn how to score with regularity and then circle back to learn how to play D after, though it's always a hard thing to manage when you hit such a player with reality, they might not catch on even after you sunk the time into allowing them to score at the expense of defense. Many coaches wouldn't allow Yak the freedom that Krueger did, preferring to set a singular standard for team unity and accountability, plus building that standard into the team culture, opposed to taking a varied approach for individual player development.

Almost all the players hated Eakins, but I think Hall was a bit indifferent, Eakins was trying to crack the corsi code and translate that into NHL wins, Hall was driving his corsi results so was rarely in Eakins crosshairs (water bottle gate aside) and got a lot of autonomy. I got no idea who Halls favorite Oiler coach was, but I'd hazard a guess McLellan was in his top 3, likely Nelson in there as well he seemed pretty happy playing for him in the AHL during the lockout.

I'm definitely exaggerating, as I accused that Hall/Hynes article to be doing. I don't think Eakins/McLellan have a total closed door policy on players, especially their top guys. Just that, the dialog that could happen likely didn't have many productive places to go. Eakins was on his path of cracking the corsi-code, and he even had Dellow in the room teaching players how to get their Corsi rates up. Hall actually said during that time that he is very interested in analytics and learns about them, but how far is he really gonna get in those conversations with Eakins about it? The plan was already a complete disaster, and Hall, as inquisitive as he may be, was not going to be the guy with all the answers. That era was just misery for everyone. McLellan, he is very resistant to analytics, so those kinds of conversations weren't gonna happen. McLellan was pumping the dump and chase and grind it out hockey. Not sure where Hall is getting in conversations with him. McLellan was pushing old school, Hall is very much a new school kind of player.

I really think it's just all about the situation. If Hynes was our coach and we had a GM that was loading up on puck moving D, the same thing could have happened for Hall here. He has a coach that is very open, very innovative with his game plan and approach to how the game should be played. That's the situation Hall needed to be in to be that guy fully buying in. If McLellan was the NJD coach and Chia was their GM loading up on stay at home D, he would have been the same as he was here, even if NJD Chia sat him down and told him he needs to listen to the coaches more. Right or wrong, Hall buying in was just as much about the org and coach earning Hall's respect as it was about Hall submitting.
 

Uindicator

Registered User
Sep 27, 2010
716
212
We seem to keep hearing this from fringe players which makes it seem like sour grapes.
How many players that have been traded away from the oilers that after develop into better NHL players? Alot
This org is horrible at developing players and it's becoming more and more evident as to why. their scouts are just as bad because too many buddies get hired to scout.
Krueger and Nelson have been the best coaches we've had in recent memory because of the simple fact they actually communicate with the players.
 

CycloneSweep

Registered User
Sep 27, 2017
48,205
40,012
How many players that have been traded away from the oilers that after develop into better NHL players? Alot
This org is horrible at developing players and it's becoming more and more evident as to why. their scouts are just as bad because too many buddies get hired to scout.
Krueger and Nelson have been the best coaches we've had in recent memory because of the simple fact they actually communicate with the players.
That happens to other orgs. Players get traded and get better. Some players get traded and get worse. Happens to every team.

Gagner, Paajarvi, Yakupov, Marincin none of those guys improved after being traded away
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheNumber4

nabob

Big Daddy Kane
Aug 3, 2005
34,428
20,894
HF boards
That happens to other orgs. Players get traded and get better. Some players get traded and get worse. Happens to every team.

Gagner, Paajarvi, Yakupov, Marincin none of those guys improved after being traded away

Gagner also never improved from the player he was in his first game in the NHL. Some plays lose the incentive after making $20M+ in a few years.
 

bobbythebrain

Registered User
Jul 30, 2016
13,555
12,851
Jesse's AHL coach told him what he needed to improve on. Just today, Chia gave an interview specifically stating he talked to Yammo, JP and Bouchard about things they needed to improve

No communication my a$$!

Draisaitl was slow as molasses and worked on his skating over the summer. Pretty naive thinking to presume nobody from management told him to do so
 

SK13

non torsii subligarium
Jul 23, 2007
32,761
6,378
Edmonton
These stories are never huge confidence boosters in the organization.

I will say that communicating with Jesse Puljujarvi is a lot more important than Pakarainen. Iiro was a plug here to do spot duty. In his last year the only reason he had a contract at all was because of the expansion draft rules. There isn't much to say to him about what he needs to do, because there's nothing he's going to do different that would have kept him in the line-up.
 

GameChanger

Registered User
Jun 29, 2016
2,161
1,231
Several posters seem to feel they'd wanted to pick Dubois instead of Pulju and I understand that. Everyone knows I'm not happy with the way Pulju has been handled at times, but if we forget that all and just imagine a situation where Dubois is kept on the 3rd line with no PP time and Pulju is placed with McDavid and Drai with ample time on the 1st PP unit. I don't have a crystal ball, but I personally believe the situation would look different.

Dubois didn't do too well on the 3rd line and his performance in the WJC was far behind Puljujarvi despite him being a year older. IMO the main difference between the Oilers and CBJ wasn't in drafting, but it was in realizing how to bring the best out of a young player who's not good enough to play well in the bottom6 and who could use some confidence boost.

It's not like Puljujarvi wasn't ever an NHL calibre player while he was confident and the coach trusted him to some extent. After all he was the best scoring winger until sometime in March and I was hoping a stronger start from him this season, but also a different approach from McLellan.

I think changing his line (other winger) after the strong preseason and demoting him to the 4th line after just two games harmed the situation. Here's a bit about how he was doing after 14 games last season:

https://thehockeywriters.com/jesse-puljujarvi-getting-comfortable/
 

CycloneSweep

Registered User
Sep 27, 2017
48,205
40,012
Several posters seem to feel they'd wanted to pick Dubois instead of Pulju and I understand that. Everyone knows I'm not happy with the way Pulju has been handled at times, but if we forget that all and just imagine a situation where Dubois is kept on the 3rd line with no PP time and Pulju is placed with McDavid and Drai with ample time on the 1st PP unit. I don't have a crystal ball, but I personally believe the situation would look different.

Dubois didn't do too well on the 3rd line and his performance in the WJC was far behind Puljujarvi despite him being a year older. IMO the main difference between the Oilers and CBJ wasn't in drafting, but it was in realizing how to bring the best out of a young player who's not good enough to play well in the bottom6 and who could use some confidence boost.

It's not like Puljujarvi wasn't ever an NHL calibre player while he was confident and the coach trusted him to some extent. After all he was the best scoring winger until sometime in March and I was hoping a stronger start from him this season, but also a different approach from McLellan.

I think changing his line (other winger) after the strong preseason and demoting him to the 4th line after just two games harmed the situation. Here's a bit about how he was doing after 14 games last season:

https://thehockeywriters.com/jesse-puljujarvi-getting-comfortable/
Dubois over Pulju seemed dumb at the time and if anything Columbus lucked out. If the argument was we should of picked Tkachuk over Puljujarvi then I 100% get it because Tkachuk has been a better player from the moment they were both drafted and outside of Matthews and Laine, Tkachuk was the most NHL ready.
 

KarmaPolice

Snack enthusiast
Oct 5, 2007
19,114
10,581
In Limbo
There's something big to be said for good communication in ANY relationship, be it private or professional. Young players especially need the feedback, both good and bad, to help them further understand what they need to work on and develop their game. If Todd isn't doing that, I find that inexcusable.
 

frag2

Registered User
Mar 8, 2006
19,227
7,374
Jesse's AHL coach told him what he needed to improve on. Just today, Chia gave an interview specifically stating he talked to Yammo, JP and Bouchard about things they needed to improve

No communication my a$$!

Draisaitl was slow as molasses and worked on his skating over the summer. Pretty naive thinking to presume nobody from management told him to do so

Some players get it and some players dont.
Its all hearsay but there are stories from both sides
-JP didn't listen and has bad attitude
-Coaches never talked to him
-JP took his career for granted
-TMac never gave him any top 6 time

At the end of the day, TMac is still an idiot and JP still didn't prove squat when given an opportunity.
 

rboomercat90

Registered User
Mar 24, 2013
14,750
8,968
Edmonton
Jesse's AHL coach told him what he needed to improve on. Just today, Chia gave an interview specifically stating he talked to Yammo, JP and Bouchard about things they needed to improve

No communication my a$$!

Draisaitl was slow as molasses and worked on his skating over the summer. Pretty naive thinking to presume nobody from management told him to do so
Isn’t talking to a player as you send them down the least you can do? Probably pretty easy because you won’t be seeing them for a while.

The issue here is what’s the communication like for the players before they’ve been sent down? What’s being said to them before they’re sent down, while they’re still on the roster? What kind of coaching are they getting playing for the Oilers? The results on the ice and the lack of progress in most of the players should be enough all on its own to make you ask those questions. That these types of stories keep popping up should make you wonder even more.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GameChanger

frag2

Registered User
Mar 8, 2006
19,227
7,374
Several posters seem to feel they'd wanted to pick Dubois instead of Pulju and I understand that. Everyone knows I'm not happy with the way Pulju has been handled at times, but if we forget that all and just imagine a situation where Dubois is kept on the 3rd line with no PP time and Pulju is placed with McDavid and Drai with ample time on the 1st PP unit. I don't have a crystal ball, but I personally believe the situation would look different.

Dubois didn't do too well on the 3rd line and his performance in the WJC was far behind Puljujarvi despite him being a year older. IMO the main difference between the Oilers and CBJ wasn't in drafting, but it was in realizing how to bring the best out of a young player who's not good enough to play well in the bottom6 and who could use some confidence boost.

It's not like Puljujarvi wasn't ever an NHL calibre player while he was confident and the coach trusted him to some extent. After all he was the best scoring winger until sometime in March and I was hoping a stronger start from him this season, but also a different approach from McLellan.

I think changing his line (other winger) after the strong preseason and demoting him to the 4th line after just two games harmed the situation. Here's a bit about how he was doing after 14 games last season:

https://thehockeywriters.com/jesse-puljujarvi-getting-comfortable/

Hindsight is 20/20.
JP played with pretty much the same center the entire time yet results, when comparing preseason vs regular season, are vastly different.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad