News Article: Iiro Pakarinen about his time as an Oiler, journalist relates to Puljujärvi (Finnish media)

[McDNicks17]

Several posters seem to feel they'd wanted to pick Dubois instead of Pulju and I understand that. Everyone knows I'm not happy with the way Pulju has been handled at times, but if we forget that all and just imagine a situation where Dubois is kept on the 3rd line with no PP time and Pulju is placed with McDavid and Drai with ample time on the 1st PP unit. I don't have a crystal ball, but I personally believe the situation would look different.

Dubois didn't do too well on the 3rd line and his performance in the WJC was far behind Puljujarvi despite him being a year older. IMO the main difference between the Oilers and CBJ wasn't in drafting, but it was in realizing how to bring the best out of a young player who's not good enough to play well in the bottom6 and who could use some confidence boost.

It's not like Puljujarvi wasn't ever an NHL calibre player while he was confident and the coach trusted him to some extent. After all he was the best scoring winger until sometime in March and I was hoping a stronger start from him this season, but also a different approach from McLellan.

I think changing his line (other winger) after the strong preseason and demoting him to the 4th line after just two games harmed the situation. Here's a bit about how he was doing after 14 games last season:

https://thehockeywriters.com/jesse-puljujarvi-getting-comfortable/

The big difference between the two is Dubois does all the little things that makes him a valuable player to put with guys like Panarin and Atkinson.

He's good defensively, he creates space with his size, he wins board battles.

Pulju doesn't do any of that. Combine that with how lost he's been offensively and you can see why an NHL coach would prefer to play a guy like Dubois in the top6 over Pulju.

 

[ohheyhemsky]

Not sure if it's already been stated, but this has been happening in Edmonton for years as per Ryan Whitney. He said he would learn that he wasn't playing by looking at the roster lineup on the board coming into the game. That's how players learn here I guess.

From a development standpoint - wtf.

 

[rboomercat90]

Why is anybody talking about Dubois? There was little if any talk about the team selecting him before Puljijarvi fell in our lap. Most of the discussion from what I remember revolved around Tkachuk and a defenseman, most likely Sergechev.

 

[GameChanger]

The big difference between the two is Dubois does all the little things that makes him a valuable player to put with guys like Panarin and Atkinson.

He's good defensively, he creates space with his size, he wins board battles.

I'm writing just this one more msg about this. Maybe that's the case now, but not exactly before he was put to the 1st line. I believe it's more the production of the confidence and whatever he's got with the big TOI on the 1st line.

However, Dubois was actually a better prospect than some think, so I was expecting him to become at least a good 2C. In fact I was calling for patience at the CBJ section when people were calling him a bust.

The fact is Dubois had scored only one goal in the 19 previous games (altogether 2+2 in 20 games) before he was being lifted up and I saw some talk about fans wanting to send him down to the AHL if that was possible. I'm sure he had to do many things well to deserve a look higher up, but I don't know if McLellan and many fans would've thought that's enough to warrant a similar place on the 1st line with Panarin and on the PP.

Like I said I'm not comparing the players, but at the end of last autumn practically no-one here wanted Dubois over Pulju so I do believe the pretty opposite ways they were handled have at least played a part. That's why I'm personally waiting longer to draw stronger conclusions, but as I kind of hope success for Kekalainen (and Nutivaara) I'm happy with the way things have worked out with Dubois.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Isn’t talking to a player as you send them down the least you can do? Probably pretty easy because you won’t be seeing them for a while.

The issue here is what’s the communication like for the players before they’ve been sent down? What’s being said to them before they’re sent down, while they’re still on the roster? What kind of coaching are they getting playing for the Oilers? The results on the ice and the lack of progress in most of the players should be enough all on its own to make you ask those questions. That these types of stories keep popping up should make you wonder even more.

Nuge is having a career year. Drai has developed just fine. We've watched Klefbom improve. We've seen Nurse improve. Aside from creating offense, Yammo looked really good in many areas of his game, so his development is on track it seems.

Only odd man out is JP. Imo, I doubt he's been martyred

Also, if i recall correctly, Todd MacLellan is on record saying he talked to JP this year about his role on the team. He also talked to his teammates aswell about him

This "no communication" seems like pure bs, in JP's case anyway

 

[rboomercat90]

Nuge is having a career year. Drai has developed just fine. We've watched Klefbom improve. We've seen Nurse improve. Aside from creating offense, Yammo looked really good in many areas of his game, so his development is on track it seems.

Only odd man out is JP. Imo, I doubt he's been martyred

The only person on the roster not improving in Puljijarvi? I can’t be the only person who is speechless by that statement.

Just to be clear, I don’t think this is a problem specific to Puljijarvi at all. He should have been sent down, he hasn’t played well. My concern is for every young player that goes through this organization.

 

[bobbythebrain]

The only person on the roster not improving in Puljijarvi? I can’t be the only person who is speechless by that statement.

Just to be clear, I don’t think this is a problem specific to Puljijarvi at all. He should have been sent down, he hasn’t played well. My concern is for every young player that goes through this organization.

I'm not saying everybody has improved. I just am demonstrating that core players have indeed improved under TM

But lets look at some facts. We know Drai worked on his weakness very hard, skating and protecting pucks. We know Maroon was given direction to lose weight and did. We know Nurse hired Oates. We know McD worked on FO's

Now JP. We know he goes to Finland. We know he didn't work on English his first year. Did he work on his weaknesses? As stated to him in Bako 2 years ago, he needs to protect pucks. Yet we see a guy who falls constantly despite his massive frame and can't win a board battle or shield a puck to save his life. I question if he worked on these things in the slightest. That's not TM's fault

 

[GodPucker]

Communication with players is huge. Treating them like they are a commodity and not human beings is despicable no matter how much $ they are making.

Ya that is ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC. How do you not communicate with them one on one?

Sather used to friggin handle Grant Fuhr's finances for a while lol. Nevermind coach.

God I hate TMac

Even Gulutzen said he never talked to his CGY team after losses.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Just going to add something Hall said last year

"I talked more with the coach this year, then in the last 4 years with the Oilers" or something like that

 

[rickysusedsht]

Comunication is the key for sucess in any sport . you have to work with the players that need it and ask the ones that don't to lead by example. Thats called leadership and it starts at the top down .

 

[Jumptheshark]

Comunication is the key for sucess in any sport . you have to work with the players that need it and ask the ones that don't to lead by example. Thats called leadership and it starts at the top down .

I would say life in general

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I would generally buy that if Hall didn't say pretty much say the same thing saying that Hinds gave him the open communication that he wasn't receiving in Edmonton.

Now, one can say that Hall was also bitter but when it's a pattern of several players saying the same exact thing, it's something to take seriously. Same with the Eakins era when a bunch of ex-players had gripes with his methods.

If there's any truth to this in reference to Pulju, I think it's deplorable that they didn't have any open communication with a kid from a remote part of Finland that needed guidance so desperately. I get upset just thinking about it.

IIRC Hall said he didn't listen to any coaches before his second year in NJ and after his come to Jesus meeting with Shero. Not sure that is the same as what Pak said.

Either way, it seems its always the bitter ones whining and complaining about the coaches when they leave. I am sure there is another side to the story here as well.

 

[Niten Ichi Ryu]

Funny, how Taylor Hall said something similar last year, while en route to the NJD first hart trophy in franchise history.
Or how Eberle attributed his resurgent year to having confidence from the coaching staff
Or how Justin Schultz had a career worst year under Todd, then in the same year wins the Stanely Cup whilst being a huge factor on his new team
Or how Slepyshev, a former 1st overall pick in Russia leaves the team for the KHL because of being sat out half the season, while Mark Letestu gets as many minutes as McDavid
Or how both Auvitu and Pak put forward a public statement on the lack of communication with the head coach
Or how Puljujarvi and Yamamoto, both highly touted prospects are crumbling before our eyes under McStubborn
And most importantly, how his former team (Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski and Vlasic) all credited their resurgent year to the cup final to their head coach. Especially Thornton, on numerous occasions, publicly stated how the coaching change was the best thing to have happened to the team

There is a trend here, McLellan is out of date, and an un-fair person that inspires zero confidence with zero communication. Literally the most paramount aspects of an NHL coach. He plays favorites, gives certain players infinite chances, while others can't even make a single mistake before being punished. Even set a record, where McDavid put the team on his back for the first 9 goals of the season, while the rest of the team did diddly squat. This team, under this system/coach, would be absolutely pathetic without Connor McDavid, if it isn't already

Thank you Iiro, but I'm afraid after hearing Chiarelli's presser, Todd could lose 10 straight and he'd still have a job. The only way things change, is if Katz/Gretzky make a bold move, to save McDavid's career, and fire Peter Chiarelli and Todd McLellan. Secretly, I don't want Quenville though, I want Alain Vigneault. Missed the playoffs once in 11 years with both NY and Van, and went to the cup finals with both. He would be the perfect coach for this team IMO

 

[Jumptheshark]

I pointed out before that other former oilers tossed the organization and dressing room under the bus before

 

[McCombo]

Jesse Joensuu has said the same thing, not in public, but I have a very reliable source. But I can't remember if it was with Oilers or Islanders. The story went like this: "He played multiple years in organization, but never exchanged words with head coach, not even once.

I am kinda leaning towards his time with Islanders. So maybe it isn't that uncommon in NHL, but that sounds so oldschool and stupid.

What comes to Puljujärvi, few years ago I played 9 holes golf with Lauri Marjamäki (he was Jesse's coach in Kärpät). He said that Jesse needed constant guidance and feedback even middle of a game.

Language barrier and what seems like different culture what comes to communication could be the things that hold Jesse back.

 

[poolparty98]

In every place of employment there is always someone that is bad at their job, and has a huge ego.

Todd is that guy for Oilers, like can you imagine have a huge ego, and you have best player in world and have failed to make playoffs 3 out of 4 yrs

 

[onetweasy]

Surprise, surprise this Franchise is terrible at a lot of things.

You don't become the Cleveland Browns of the NHL without some systemic problems.

 

[Icejoker]

Its quite intresting when swedish media talk about a coach who is really talk with the players its a canadian,(Jeremy Colliton) and he was hired by Bowman.

 

[Delicious Pancakes]

Surprise, surprise this Franchise is terrible at a lot of things.

You don't become the Cleveland Browns of the NHL without some systemic problems.

I was thinking about that comparison as well this morning.

If this team's communication with players really is that limited what do you expect is going to happen? It's 2018, not 1978, open communication is healthy and makes organizations run more effectively. If you want your players to improve and your team to be on the same page you need to talk to players regularly so that they know what's expected of them and what they need to work on. Otherwise why would you be surprised at the limited development of your players or last year's mediocre results?

 

[Digger12]

Jesse Joensuu has said the same thing, not in public, but I have a very reliable source. But I can't remember if it was with Oilers or Islanders. The story went like this: "He played multiple years in organization, but never exchanged words with head coach, not even once.

I am kinda leaning towards his time with Islanders. So maybe it isn't that uncommon in NHL, but that sounds so oldschool and stupid.

What comes to Puljujärvi, few years ago I played 9 holes golf with Lauri Marjamäki (he was Jesse's coach in Kärpät). He said that Jesse needed constant guidance and feedback even middle of a game.

Language barrier and what seems like different culture what comes to communication could be the things that hold Jesse back.

I dunno, I don't mean to be rude about it because Jesse seems like a good kid...but when I read something like that it makes me wonder if the bigger problem isn't so much language and culture, but that the player just isn't all that bright and has a hard time learning new things.

I've seen it enough in my own workplace...there's always someone who, nice as he/she is, can be hard to work with because no matter how many times you teach them something it doesn't seem to stick in their head. You end up teaching them the same things over and over, but invariably it seems to go in one ear and out the other. After a while, you get tired of dealing with someone who's constantly high maintenance and can't seem to do much of anything without someone holding his hand and patting him on the head.

I think McLellan is feeling something like that, he kinda tipped his hand with his (paraphrasing) "Yes he's only 20 years old, but it's also year 3" comment he's trotted out a couple of times at least so far this year regarding Jesse. He probably wishes there was some way to transplant Yamamoto's brain into Jesse's body.

I guess what I'm trying to get across is that as much as the coach may have bungled the development of this player, ultimately it's on Jesse to be in charge of his own career.

 

[oilersrule14]

It is how you get players to buy into your system . Pretty simple to go to a player and say hey I am sitting you for a few games . You need to work on these things . You missed this coverage in the defensive zone twice . You got to remember cover your man and no matter what stay with him . Also you need to make sure the puck is deep before coming to the bench .

I think you (and a few others lol) might have missed my point. I was trying to say that there's gonna be a times in a fringe NHLers life where they can do everything right in a game....and they sit the next game because there's another player who might be faster, better shot etc. My post was directly in response to Iiro complaining about a lack of communication, NOT my opinion of a coaching staff not communicating in general (that's why I mentioned an example of the coaching staff communicating with Puljujarvi). I'm not too concerned about a guy like Pakarainen saying he didn't know why he was sitting (we all watch the games, we all know it's because there were other guys with more potential to make a scoring impact on the game that probably do less things 'right' then he does, not because he was turning over pucks or missing dzone assignments), I'd be more concerned if a player with untapped potential had said it.

 

[Consultant]

Coaching needs to figure this out yesterday. A couple more losses and Todd is gone.

 

[Spawn]

Not sure if it's already been stated, but this has been happening in Edmonton for years as per Ryan Whitney. He said he would learn that he wasn't playing by looking at the roster lineup on the board coming into the game. That's how players learn here I guess.

From a development standpoint - wtf.

Interestingly enough, the head coach that started making Ryan Whitney a healthy scratch was Ralph Krueger. Yet just in this thread we've got posters saying that Krueger was the best coach we've had in years because he was supposedly an excellent communicator with players and apparently this kind of thing never would have happened under his watch?

This suggests that this is perhaps the norm for head coaches in hockey. And not just North American trained coaches since Krueger was a coach who spent his entire professional career, playing and coaching, in Europe.

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with not having a conversation every time a player isn't going to be in the lineup. Especially if the player being sat is a 12/13th forward type players. These guys should recognize their role on the team and understand that they aren't going to be playing every game.

On the other hand though, if the player doesn't have an idea with what they need to be doing to succeed under the eyes of the coaching staff there is something wrong going on. There does need to be clarity between the staff and the players. That might not need to happen before every game. But it needs to happen at some point. And it's up to the coaches to make sure that players understand what it is that they are doing right and wrong.

 

[Daryls Friend]

Jesse Joensuu has said the same thing, not in public, but I have a very reliable source. But I can't remember if it was with Oilers or Islanders. The story went like this: "He played multiple years in organization, but never exchanged words with head coach, not even once.

I am kinda leaning towards his time with Islanders. So maybe it isn't that uncommon in NHL, but that sounds so oldschool and stupid.

What comes to Puljujärvi, few years ago I played 9 holes golf with Lauri Marjamäki (he was Jesse's coach in Kärpät). He said that Jesse needed constant guidance and feedback even middle of a game.

Language barrier and what seems like different culture what comes to communication could be the things that hold Jesse back.

 

[Daryls Friend]

Listened to Friedmans 31 thoughts. Basically said last time JP was sent to minors he threw a hissy fit and it wasn't pretty, so the reason why the Oilers might not want to send him down again (podcast was from Thursday) is they didn't want to deal with that again.
Thats a real pro for ya. The problem sounds like its Jesse. Sounds very unprofessional to go with his very inadequate brain. Thats a bad combo..

 

[onetweasy]

I was thinking about that comparison as well this morning.

If this team's communication with players really is that limited what do you expect is going to happen? It's 2018, not 1978, open communication is healthy and makes organizations run more effectively. If you want your players to improve and your team to be on the same page you need to talk to players regularly so that they know what's expected of them and what they need to work on. Otherwise why would you be surprised at the limited development of your players or last year's mediocre results?

I honestly have no idea how an NHL club can run an organization like it is the 1970's. In my mind, a sports franchise should be the front lines in how to maximize the performance of your employees - communication and every other forward looking idea should be considered and implemented.

However, this team is in a state of arrested development where the Franchise still thinks it's okay to draft an 18 year old kid who doesn't speak English and just "let him figure it out on his own".......

 

[Delicious Pancakes]

I honestly have no idea how an NHL club can run an organization like it is the 1970's. In my mind, a sports franchise should be the front lines in how to maximize the performance of your employees - communication and every other forward looking idea should be considered and implemented.

However, this team is in a state of arrested development where the Franchise still thinks it's okay to draft an 18 year old kid who doesn't speak English and just "let him figure it out on his own".......

Yeah, drafting a player is an investment and if you're not doing what you can to maximize that investment then don't be surprised if the returns are mediocre.

 

[McCombo]

I dunno, I don't mean to be rude about it because Jesse seems like a good kid...but when I read something like that it makes me wonder if the bigger problem isn't so much language and culture, but that the player just isn't all that bright and has a hard time learning new things.

I've seen it enough in my own workplace...there's always someone who, nice as he/she is, can be hard to work with because no matter how many times you teach them something it doesn't seem to stick in their head. You end up teaching them the same things over and over, but invariably it seems to go in one ear and out the other. After a while, you get tired of dealing with someone who's constantly high maintenance and can't seem to do much of anything without someone holding his hand and patting him on the head.

I think McLellan is feeling something like that, he kinda tipped his hand with his (paraphrasing) "Yes he's only 20 years old, but it's also year 3" comment he's trotted out a couple of times at least so far this year regarding Jesse. He probably wishes there was some way to transplant Yamamoto's brain into Jesse's body.

I guess what I'm trying to get across is that as much as the coach may have bungled the development of this player, ultimately it's on Jesse to be in charge of his own career.

I get your point! And I don't think Jesse would be in level of Matthews/Laine etc if Oilers would have managed and developed Jesse better, but would probably be a lot better than he is at the moment.

Marjamäki coached Jesse also in 16-17 World Champs. That time Jesse had played 1 year in NA. Marjamäki healthy scratched Jesse in few games and said that somehow he is worse player than year ago (when they were together in Kärpät).

It could be that Jesse has developed very little if at all in his time in NA and that is mostly on the organization and coaching. He had no problem developing every year in Finland.