Iginla vs Selanne

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Seanconn*, Mar 29, 2011.

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  1. Seanconn*

    Seanconn* Guest

    Both goal high scoring right wingers, and both with a right hand shot.

    Selanne has a Calder, 3 goal scoring titles (one Rocket Richard), and a Cup.

    Iginla has 2 Rocket Richard's, an Art Ross, and a Pearson (now Ted Lindsay Award), but no cup yet.

    Iginla has cracked 50 goals twice, Selanne has 3 times, and one of those times was 76 goals.

    Selanne has 4 100+ point seasons, Iginla has 3 90+ seasons. (might be due to playing more of his career in the "dead puck era", but Selanne still hit 109 points in 96/97, which many view as the start of the dead puck era..

    Selanne so far

    634 goals/701 assists for 1,335 points, in 1,253 games.

    Iginla so far

    477 goals/518 assists for 995 points, in 1,101 games.

    Selanne's career is near its end, but Iginla's is far from over, but I can imagine he'll be sticking around for a while, maybe even staying with Calgary :handclap:

    based on a combination of both peak and career... Who's the better player?

    my vote goes to Selanne, but based on my avatar, that's not a surprise ;)
     
  2. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    This one is tough. I used to pick iginla because he has the better best seasons.

    But iginla had some real down years in between those seasons right I'm the middle of his prime. I'll hold off and wait to see what others say, but I think I lean towards selanne now
     
  3. Big Phil

    Big Phil Registered User

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    Career it is Selanne without a doubt. Now, that can be because of default - he's played longer - but either way the body of work between the two goes to Selanne.

    Top 10 scoring finishes:
    Selanne - 2, 2, 5, 5, 7, 8, 8
    Iginla - 1, 3, 8, 8

    It isn't even close in that regards although Iggy should crack the top 10 this year.

    Hart voting is close though and both won the Rocket multiple times.

    It all comes down to this. Selanne had more offense. He was a better playmaker and even a better goal scorer. He lacked the physical dimension of Iginla though. But does his dominance in his prime make up for a less offensive but more complete Iginla?

    Neither is a playoff legend, but if you had to pick one you'd choose Selanne. At the end of the day if you were a GM would you pass up on Selanne over Iginla. I hate to say this, but I don't believe I would.
     
  4. Hardyvan123

    Hardyvan123 [email protected]

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    Fully agree here and I doubt that Iginla will make up the difference as he ages.
     
  5. JackSlater

    JackSlater Registered User

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    I would give Selanne a slight edge in peak. Ultimately he has a few more elite seasons than Iginla so he gets the edge in prime, and it's hard to say how longevity is going to turn out. These guys have really weird career arcs.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2011
  6. Selanne138

    Selanne138 Registered User

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    theyre tied in points, so obviously Selanne has a good chance of doing the same.
     
  7. Seanconn*

    Seanconn* Guest

    probably a better chance, higher ppg and more games to play.

    but I think Big Phil was just saying, Iginla will probably end up in the top 10 this year too. but yeah, considering Selanne probably will too, it does kinda negate that point.

    Iginla with the better peak season though, Devil made me?

    I guess, simply based on the fact he was first in scoring... but Selanne's rookie season, and his 96/97 season are both more impressive than Iginla's Art Ross winning season, imo.

    Also, Big Phil, what happened to the Bobby Orr avatar? ;)
     
  8. quoipourquoi

    quoipourquoi Goaltender

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    One of each of those 8th place finishes for Selanne and Iginla may fluctuate depending on the next few games, as they are from this season.


    What bothers me is that the other 8th place finish for Selanne was from 1997-98 - his best season. Going into the Olympics, he led the league with 41 Goals and 68 Points in 56 Games - the year Paul Kariya held out for the first 32 Games, only to subsequently get injured 22 Games later - meaning Selanne was doing some serious heavy lifting.

    Then on his way to leading the Olympics in scoring as well, he gets injured and misses the first 5 games after the tournament. Mighty Ducks go 1-4, so he rushes himself back from injury to try to salvage the playoffs, only to have Craig Ludwig elbow him in the head in his fourth game. He keeps playing hurt while the Mighty Ducks go on to post a 7-15-4 record in their 26 Games after the Olympic break (the injured Selanne only scrounges up 11 more Goals and 18 more Points).

    Jaromir Jagr catches him and waltzes away with another Art Ross, and when the Mighty Ducks are eliminated from playoff contention in Game 78 (yes, they were in the playoff race that long, despite their second-best goal scorer being Paul "22 Games" Kariya), Selanne sits out the final four games - during which he is also passed in the scoring race by Forsberg, Bure, Gretzky, Palffy, Lindros, and LeClair; and Bondra equals him in league goal scoring.

    And it gets summed up in every Selanne thread as an 8th place finish in scoring and a tie for 1st in Goals. (sigh)


    Selanne's 1997-98 was better than anything from any player not named Jagr, Sakic, Lemieux, or Hasek in the Dead Puck Era, as far as I'm concerned.
     
  9. Seanconn*

    Seanconn* Guest

    yup, that year Selanne definitely deserved the Pearson.
     
  10. quoipourquoi

    quoipourquoi Goaltender

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    The way Hasek played after the Olympics... it's a tough call. Hasek was so streaky that season (he wasn't even the Vezina front-runner around the All-Star break), but his post-Olympic play sealed the deal on the Pearson, and the Mighty Ducks missing the playoffs sealed the deal on the Hart.
     
  11. canucks4ever

    canucks4ever Registered User

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    Forsberg's 98, 99 and 2003 seasons were all better. Elite two way play is more impressive than 1 dimensional offense.
     
  12. quoipourquoi

    quoipourquoi Goaltender

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    Maybe his 2003 (or the entire stretch of hockey from the 2002 Playoffs to the 2004 Regular Season), but his 1998 and 1999 weren't as good as Selanne's 1998, or even Selanne's 1997 or 1999. Forsberg had flashes of brilliance offensively, but Selanne's 1998 saw him pot 41 at even-strength and still finish as a plus-player on an awful squad. I don't mean to imply that either Kamensky or Lemieux stirred the drink in Denver (I watched the Avalanche more than any other team; Forsberg was the man in control more than Sakic sometimes), but Forsberg didn't do as much offensively as Selanne in the late-90s, and the entire Colorado Avalanche defensive system left a lot to be desired. Forsberg was a strong physical player, but well until 2002, the top lines of the Avalanche had the defensive goal of out-scoring the other team... and that was pretty much it. I can't recall a good penalty killing unit from the era outside of Yelle-Messier.

    At any rate, Forsberg wouldn't be bad company either, but I disagree that Forsberg was better in the 90s. In the 2000s as a whole? Forsberg was a tank.
     
  13. tony d

    tony d Registered User Sponsor

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    Close but I'm going with Selanne. Good topic, these 2 are probably among the best right wingers over the past few seasons.
     
  14. canucks4ever

    canucks4ever Registered User

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    Yeah but in 97 forsberg was the runner up for the selke, that more than makes up for any advantage teemu could have had. Selanne was a great player but foppa was always held in a higher regard.

    As for this thread i pick teemu, he might be a top 100 all time player now.
     
  15. quoipourquoi

    quoipourquoi Goaltender

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    Peter Forsberg had a high +/- in 1997 at +31 compared to Joe Sakic at -10, and people read a lot into it at the time. As for Forsberg always being held in a higher regard, Teemu Selanne was top five in Hart voting in 1997, 1998, and 1999; Forsberg wasn't. Like I said, you can argue Forsberg in 2003, but my overall point is that Selanne's peak was pretty high, and the theory that Iginla had "the better best seasons" didn't strike me as being completely accurate given the relative competition of Jaromir Jagr and Markus Naslund.
     
  16. vadim sharifijanov

    vadim sharifijanov ugh

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    i caught the third period of his 5 point game the other night and i will say this: the first impulse is to look at an older player putting up points on a borderline playoff team while not being the go-to guy and call it compiling. but teemu has been providing outstanding secondary scoring for the ducks all year. without him, i doubt this team comes close to making the playoffs.
     
  17. IggyFan12

    IggyFan12 Registered User

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    Very good question. Hopefully for tonight at least Iginla out duels Selanne :)

    There are certain things Selanne has an edge over Iginla in (Speed) and some areas where Iginla has a lead (Physical play). I really like both players (but find my self not liking Selanne the more he kills my Flames). I have broken down the players Goals, Points and Games Played since Iginla started in the league. At the beggining of his Career Selanne was killing Iginla in Goals and Points but once Iginla peaked the scale started to tip. The numbers are very similar however.

    Goals:

    Iginla: 21,13,28,29,31,52,35,41,35,39,50,35,32,36
    Selanne:51,52,47,33,33,29,28,16,40,48,12,27,27,28

    Totals: Iginla 477 Selanne 471
    Season winners: Iginla:7 Selanne:7

    Very very close

    Points:
    Iginla: 50,32,51,63,71,96,67,73,67,94,98,89,69,75
    Selanne:109,86,107,85,72,54,64,32,90,94,23,54,48,75

    Totals: Iginla: 995 Selanne:993
    Season Winners: Iginla 6 Selanne 6 Ties 2

    Very Very Similar numbers again

    Now in terms of games played during this span:
    Iginla:1101 Selanne:994

    So Selanne has put up very similar numbers to Iginla while playing 100 less games. You can make an argument that yes Iginla played more games and has the same amount of goals and points but playing in those games has to be a factor in favor of Iginla as well. His ability to stay healthy during his whole career is an asset not a flaw. You could also argue that Teemu was able to put up more PPG than Iginla (1 to 0.9).

    If we rank their numbers from 96/97 from best seasons then we get the following:

    Iginla wins 9 times, Selanne wins 4 times and they both tie once.

    I know Iginla is very inconsistent at times but 10 straight 30 goal seasons is the reason why I take him. From 96/97 till now Selanne has only 5. Yes Selanne had a monster rookie season but he has never come close to matching those numbers since.
     
  18. canucks4ever

    canucks4ever Registered User

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    Forsberg outperformed him in the playoffs, and two way play beats 1 way play any day, regardless of hart voting. Selanne has iggy beat though, Iginla had down years in the middle of his prime, he wasn't consistent like selanne.
     
  19. seventieslord

    seventieslord Student Of The Game

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    Definitely Selanne, but definitely not by as much as the obvious goalscoring and point production differential implies.

    It seems a lot of european posters especially (and not just kiddies) think Selanne has already surpassed Kurri, who canon suggests is in the 60s on an all-time list. No one has Iginla anywhere close to that high.

    I don't know that Selanne is a top-100 player, but I'd say he definitely arguably is at this point, and I just can't say that about Iginla. He's a good 30 spots behind probably.
     
  20. jcbio11

    jcbio11 Registered User

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    It's definitely Selanne, but it's closer than what the poll indicates.
     
  21. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    If selanne has a small but clear edge, why wouldn't everyone vote for him?
     
  22. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    I'm all for adding more modern players to the top 100 list. It seems like everything after 1980 is devalued for some reason. But who are the beat candidates to add? Pronger, Crosby, and ovechkin are almost givens at this point. Who else? Langway and Mark Howe? I think Selanne was a bigger star than Oates, but do you add him over Gilmour?

    You can't add that many of these guys because you don't want to overvalue modern guys.

    Edit: IMO, belfour is just as much of a must-add as pronger. Dump hainsworth and add belfour.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2011
  23. Seanconn*

    Seanconn* Guest

    I definitely think Selanne has earned a spot in the top 100 after this season, and if he sticks around one more year, and continues to impress, I think it will be very hard to keep him out of the top 100. Especially if he cracks the top 18 in career points, while staying above PPG...

    He'd be the 13th player in the top 20 with higher than PPG over his career. (and those 12 other guys are all in the top 100, right? )

    Gilmour was a better two way player, and more physical... but Selanne has a crap ton more goals, and a better PPG.

    Gilmour was a go to guy on the PK, but Selanne is probably top 10 all time "go to guys" on the Powerplay.

    Selanne and Gilmour are still very close though, and it really comes down to how much you value pure offense/ value a more well rounded player.

    no problem putting Selanne above guys like Mark Howe, Langway and even Adam Oates...
     
  24. Big Phil

    Big Phil Registered User

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    haha, infractions. Temporary one I guess for now, it was taken away. I have to stay away from the main boards and avoid those "so and so is better than him because the 1980s was easy" threads. Sometimes I think it's just entrapment! :D
     
  25. Seanconn*

    Seanconn* Guest

    haha, gotcha. too bad! It was probably my favourties avatar on the site :D

    Yeah, I don't get how some people can claim the game is so much harder today without watching hockey in the 80's other than youtube clips. I still think the mid 1990's was the hardest time to play hockey because there were just so many super star players, better equipment, bigger goalie equipment, more defensive play, just as much clutching and grabbing as the 80's... and it's what I grew up watching, so I'm 100% completely biased. :laugh:

    Obviously, Gretzky totally only dominated because it was easy to do so back in the 80's :laugh: 215 points back then? more like 95 points today :laugh: :sarcasm:
     

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