Iginla vs Selanne

IggyFan12

Registered User
Jul 26, 2010
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Difference:

575931.jpg


gelinasgoal.png

Low Blow :shakehead
 

jepjepjoo

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Dec 31, 2002
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Selanne spent a grand total of 3 years competing against mario, enough with the excuses already. Ovechkin won 2 harts and 3 lindsays, selanne was never on pace to win that amount of hardware even if you take lemieux and jagr out of the league. Ovechkin has lead the league in points per game 3 times, selanne has finished top 2 in ppg once. Ovechkin's playoff ppg is already way better too. Ovechkin has been competing against crosby, who is himself better than selanne and will end up as good as jagr if not better.

I hate this argument, but:

96-97 Selanne wins Art Ross without Lemieux
97-98 Selanne wins Art Ross and Hart without his injury (Should beat Hasek)
98-99 Selanne wins Art Ross without Jagr

Had he taken those three straight Art Rosses he would be top30 all time, but now he's borderline top100 :dunno:
 

JackSlater

Registered User
Apr 27, 2010
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I hate this argument, but:

96-97 Selanne wins Art Ross without Lemieux
97-98 Selanne wins Art Ross and Hart without his injury (Should beat Hasek)
98-99 Selanne wins Art Ross without Jagr

Had he taken those three straight Art Rosses he would be top30 all time, but now he's borderline top100 :dunno:

In 1997 Lindros, Jagr and Kariya all had higher PPG in addition to Lemieux. While Selanne would win the Art Ross if Lemieux was not around, by this point Lemieux was not completely unbeatable points wise and he was also lucky that Lindros and Jagr suffered injuries.
In 1998 I don't really know that healthy Selanne would have outscored Jagr... and if Jagr did not beat Hasek for Hart, why would Selanne?
In 1999 Selanne was great and would have won the Art Ross without Jagr, but why should Jagr be removed from the equation? Jagr was not an outlier like Lemieux and Gretzky. I agree with ushvinder's points.
 

canucks4ever

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Mar 4, 2008
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Unlike Selanne, Ovechkin was able to win his awards in 2009 and 2010 when his main peer crosby was healthy. Also, lol at selanne beating hasek for the hart, its good to here a few jokes here and there. By the way, you also forgot to mention that selanne finished 2nd in 1997 because 3 other players were injured. In 1998 forsberg also missed 10 games, ovechkin is just better.

If you want to pretend jagr didnt exist, i can always pretend crosby didnt exist. That would just make ovechkin appear even more dominant.
 
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quoipourquoi

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Jan 26, 2009
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Ovechkin won 2 harts and 3 lindsays, selanne was never on pace to win that amount of hardware

Were you not the same person arguing against Teemu Selanne's Hart voting record from 1997, 1998, and 1999 against Peter Forsberg's from the same time span? I don't think there's a single one of us who has agreed with every trophy selection, but you can't blatantly disregard one stretch of voting only to become a proponent for the voting record as-is later in the thread. Making the "hardware" argument flies in the face of what you have already declared to be a less than accurate means by which to evaluate a player relative to his peers. If you think Ovechkin has already established himself as being better, that's fine, but contradictory arguments make it impossible to have a discussion. It's not about winning or losing; it's about sharing knowledge.

TheDevilMadeMe said:
Where does ovechkin need to rebound to? He was 1st in even strength scoring and 4th overall when his team decided to rest him for the playoffs.

I should hope Ovechkin has a higher offensive level to which he can rebound from this season, because he's getting outpaced by a 40-year-old who isn't nearly as good as he was two decades ago.

TheDevilMadeMe said:
6 seasons is long enough to tell how good these players are. It's as long as guy lafleur was on top - of course he has far more playoff success than both

Again, I have to disagree. Some players hit walls in their career - Lafleur was one of them. Everyone thought Selanne was one until 2005. Some players like Joe Sakic maintain their ability. Steve Yzerman and Scott Stevens completely flipped the switch on the type of players they were halfway through their careers. And then there are guys like Johnny Bucyk who pick it up well after Year Six.


It's 1999, and you've just seen a forward put up this statline over a healthy balance of high scoring and dead puck hockey:

Season: 485 GP, 313 G (1st), 331 A, 644 PTS (2nd)
Playoffs: 21 GP, 13 G, 7 A, 20 PTS
Best-on-Best Olympics: 5 GP, 4 G, 6 A, 10 PTS (1st)


Do you think he's good enough to be in the Top 100 already, or should you wait to see if he suffers from a degenerating knee problem that turns him into a healthy scratch?
 

Gobo

Stop looking Gare
Jun 29, 2010
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If Iggy ever won a cup, I have to think this would go to him easily.
 

Seanconn*

Guest
If Iggy ever won a cup, I have to think this would go to him easily.

easily? really?

Selanne has played over 1250 games, and is above PPG. Iginla is below PPG... how he could take this easily with a cup is beyond me... It would be closer, though, that's for sure.
 

Gobo

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Jun 29, 2010
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Yeah, cause he's a good old Canadian boy. Don, that you?

Or you know cause I think Iginla's a better player? Selanne is a great player in his own regard but 10 straight 30 goal seasons and the fact that he still has time to add to his stats make Iggy better IMO.
 

heksagon

Registered User
Jul 27, 2010
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Finland
Or you know cause I think Iginla's a better player? Selanne is a great player in his own regard but 10 straight 30 goal seasons and the fact that he still has time to add to his stats make Iggy better IMO.

Iginla has never had 100 points in a season. Selanne has hit 100+ points four times. (107, 108, 109 and 132!) iginla has three 40+ goal seasons. Selänne has seven! So even if Iginla wins the cup, I wouldn't call him "easily better" than Selänne. At this point it's Selänne for me but Iginla still has some years left in him.
 

Seanconn*

Guest
Or you know cause I think Iginla's a better player? Selanne is a great player in his own regard but 10 straight 30 goal seasons and the fact that he still has time to add to his stats make Iggy better IMO.

and 12 straight 28+ goal seasons :handclap:

Iginla is an amazing player, no doubt about that. But Selanne has some serious obstacles preventing him from being able to reach 10 30 goal seasons...

second season injury... still manages to score 25 goals in 61 games... then a lockout shortened season... then scores 40 or more goals from 1995-1999 (2 50 goal seasons), then 30+ the next two seasons...


if you average Selanne's goals out from his rookie season, up until today, he's scored on average 37 goals per season. (including the 07/08 season where he only played 26 games and scored 12 goals)

Iginla scored on average 34 goals per season... Iginla played more of his career in the dead puck era, yes... but he also played a lot more full seasons than Selanne ever did.

I really hope Iginla can pull a Teemu and continue to score 30+ 40+ goals past age 35 and into his 40's... would be awesome to have another 600 goal scorer... especially if he could do it all with the flames!!! let alone win a cup... because, if any team deserves another cup, it's the Flames!
 

Lafleurs Guy

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Jul 20, 2007
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Iginla has never had 100 points in a season. Selanne has hit 100+ points four times. (107, 108, 109 and 132!)
I really don't think you can look at it that way. You put Iggy in the NHL in the early 90s and he racks up points. He played in the clutch and grab era where points were a lot harder to come by. You can't just look at totals here because the leagues were entirely different.
iginla has three 40+ goal seasons. Selänne has seven! So even if Iginla wins the cup, I wouldn't call him "easily better" than Selänne. At this point it's Selänne for me but Iginla still has some years left in him.
Iggy has an Art Ross. Teemu does have four Richard trophies to Iggy's two though. Iggy's got the edge in All-star selections by a hair.

I'm surprised to see Teemu's got that many awards, I hadn't realized that he had 4 Richard's to his credit. That's damn impressive.

I love Iginla and he would've gotten my vote on this (I'm surprised the results show a gap so wide) but Selanne is better than I remembered him.

Thing about Iggy though, there was a point in time where he just might have been considered the best player in the game. He also got screwed out of what would've been a prime year for him (27 years old) because of the strike. Back then he would've been among a handful of players considered the best in the NHL and I don't think Selanne was ever quite at this level.

I'd like to hear more of what others think on this topic though.
 

heksagon

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Jul 27, 2010
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:facepalm:

Call me when Ovy scores 76 goals :P

Well he has scored 65 goals in a season which is pretty darn impressive in the modern day NHL. Given the different eras, I would say that it's pretty comparable to Selänne's 76 goals. I'm not downplaying Teemu's rookie season though, it was nuts. 132 points for a rookie! Skinner is the leading rookie now... with 58 points. Think about that for a minute.
 

jepjepjoo

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Dec 31, 2002
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I really don't think you can look at it that way. You put Iggy in the NHL in the early 90s and he racks up points. He played in the clutch and grab era where points were a lot harder to come by. You can't just look at totals here because the leagues were entirely different.

Iggy has an Art Ross. Teemu does have four Richard trophies to Iggy's two though. Iggy's got the edge in All-star selections by a hair.

I'm surprised to see Teemu's got that many awards, I hadn't realized that he had 4 Richard's to his credit. That's damn impressive.

I love Iginla and he would've gotten my vote on this (I'm surprised the results show a gap so wide) but Selanne is better than I remembered him.

Thing about Iggy though, there was a point in time where he just might have been considered the best player in the game. He also got screwed out of what would've been a prime year for him (27 years old) because of the strike. Back then he would've been among a handful of players considered the best in the NHL and I don't think Selanne was ever quite at this level.

I'd like to hear more of what others think on this topic though.

SDC11351.jpg


lower left corner
 

jepjepjoo

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Dec 31, 2002
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I really don't think you can look at it that way. You put Iggy in the NHL in the early 90s and he racks up points. He played in the clutch and grab era where points were a lot harder to come by. You can't just look at totals here because the leagues were entirely different.

92-93 Selanne 132pts 84gp league average: 7.25
95-96 Selanne 108pts 79gp league average: 6.29
96-97 Selanne 109pts 78gp league average: 5.83
98-99 Selanne 107pts 75gp league average: 5.27

Only 92-93 was a high scoring season. 98-99 is one of the lowest scoring seasons since the 50's.
 

TheMoreYouKnow

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May 3, 2007
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The weird part about Iginla and Selanne is that since 2005/06 both have been in a virtual dead heat value-wise.

Iginla 0.48 goals per game 0.56 assists per game 1.04 points per game (over 477 games)
Selanne 0.49 goals per game 0.54 assists per game 1.03 points per game (over 375 games)

For Iginla these are the 28-33 years, for Selanne the 35-40 years.

Peak-wise I'd give Selanne the nod, in spite of the Art Ross for Iginla. You look at their best 5 years each and Selanne's just look considerably better. Selanne's 107 points in 75 games in 98/99, deep in the dead puck era, were really impressive and actually better than anything Iginla did.
 

JackSlater

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Apr 27, 2010
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Well he has scored 65 goals in a season which is pretty darn impressive in the modern day NHL. Given the different eras, I would say that it's pretty comparable to Selänne's 76 goals. I'm not downplaying Teemu's rookie season though, it was nuts. 132 points for a rookie! Skinner is the leading rookie now... with 58 points. Think about that for a minute.

Ovechkin's 65 goal season was more impressive. I can't believe how over hyped Selanne's 76 goal season has become over the last few weeks. Ovechkin won led the league in goals by 25%. Selanne was tied with Mogilny, who also played 8 fewer games. Lemieux (if anyone wishes to count him) was on pace to score over 90 goals had he played a full season. Adjusted goals puts Ovechkin's total 10 ahead of Selanne's.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

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Aug 28, 2006
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Ovechkin's 65 goal season was more impressive. I can't believe how over hyped Selanne's 76 goal season has become over the last few weeks. Ovechkin won led the league in goals by 25%. Selanne was tied with Mogilny, who also played 8 fewer games. Lemieux (if anyone wishes to count him) was on pace to score over 90 goals had he played a full season. Adjusted goals puts Ovechkin's total 10 ahead of Selanne's.

Agree. Selanne's 76 goal season wasn't even his most impressive one, when you consider the context of the wacky 92-93 season.
 

Big Phil

Registered User
Nov 2, 2003
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This thread is still being debated huh? Look Iggy fans, I'm a "good old Canadian boy" too but if you look at this objectively you can't choose anyone else but Selanne. The guy has aged extremely well and I don't think anyone thought he'd have that resurgence post lockout that he's had. That being said, you need to wait a few years and hope that Iginla does something special in the coming years for him to pass Selanne. I just can't be any more objective than that
 

Epsilon

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Oct 26, 2002
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I don't really feel that Iginla was at any point widely considered as a contender for "best player in the game", given that his big seasons were frequently interlaced between less impressive ones (at least point-wise). I don't see a stretch in his career that's comparable to what Selanne did in the mid-late 90s.
 

deadpuckpro

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Apr 2, 2011
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I think the poll results say it all. The debate is about two guys who are putting up very similar numbers this season only one of them has played 10 fewer games....and is over 40 years old.
 

jcbio11

Registered User
Aug 17, 2008
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Bratislava
I don't know how Ovechkin, Crosby and Jagr got into this discussion, but I do like rankings.

So I ranked them -

1. Jagr

2. Ovechkin
3. Crosby

4. Selanne
5. Iginla


I don't know where I'd put Hasek, I hate comparing skaters to goalies. If I absolutely had to choose, I guess I'd put him in second place behind Jagr. Or maybe even first.

Lemieux isn't ranked, but he'd obviously top the ranking if he was.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
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As far as Selanne being in the conversation for the best player in the game - I've done a lot of research on him lately and there was really only one time, and that was the 1997-98 and what he did with absolutely no help in Anaheim following Kariya's injury. That THN issue posted below was clearly from the end of the 1998 season, as one of the other articles is "Bobby Orr at 50" (he turned 50 in march of 1998)
 

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