NHL Entry Draft If Zadina falls to the Sens should they take him?

[Cosmix]

I have a strange feeling Svechnikov is going to fall to 3 and the Habs will trade out of that spot . I think there is a real possibility Carolina could take Zadina.

Strange feelings and real possibilities? What makes you think that Svechnikov falls from 2 to 3 and Carolina takes Zadina?

 

[Cosmix]

Definitely some truth to what you are saying but honestly if you goof the pick near the top of the draft, you likely end up back there soon enough anyways.

But not next year for the Senators.

 

[bert]

Bouchard looks like a 26 year old, but he can certainly add pounds to that frame.

Dobson and Tkachuk can definitely get a lot bigger.

How much do you think it impacts Hughes draft status if ends being sub 5-10? Could he have a significant fall? He looked tiny next to his draft class on Coach's corner.

I think this is something to really watch out for this draft.

If he is there in the mid teens, Ottawa could make a serious play for him.

It wouldn't be the first time a highly thought of D-man slides.

Have we heard anything on the two other visitors to Ottawa yet?

You seem dead set on evaluating players simply by the combine, stats and their physical stature. If you watched Hughes at the world championships you would know he ìst going to make it past 10.

 

[DJB]

Strange feelings and real possibilities? What makes you think that Svechnikov falls from 2 to 3 and Carolina takes Zadina?

Strange feeling. Unlikely to happen

 

[Sens in Process]

You seem dead set on evaluating players simply by the combine, stats and their physical stature. If you watched Hughes at the world championships you would know he ìst going to make it past 10.

Nope, I first started making evaluations strictly on my viewings. For instance, I argued that Dobson, based off viewings, doesn't have elite hands or vision. He can back people off with exceptional skating and create room for himself, but I dont think he can effectively run a power play. I was told my evualation was wrong and to back it up. It took me about 5 minutes to find many people who had similar view.

I started taking more of a statistical approach.

With Highes, I watched him at the WC and on YouTube videos. Based off my viewing, I think he will have problems defending at the NHL level, not off the rush, but in front of the net and a long the boards.

Hughes avoiding to get measured at the combine suggests he might be trying to conceal something. If he ends up being sub 5-10, it will take a general manager with a lot of intestinal fortitude to take him in the top 10. His potential height measurement would simply back up my observations that he can't defend in the NHL

Going back to Dobson, I wouldn't be surprised if the Sens had little interest in him. I think his skating and IQ at the junior level covers up a lot of his deficiencies. And we haven't heard Dobson's name from Garrioch's mouth in ages. The Dobson thing is being drummed up by hfboards from what I can tell.

So I bet you hate my observations just as much as my stats and measurements. I am consistent.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Nope, I first started making evaluations strictly on my viewings. For instance, I argued that Dobson, based off viewings, doesn't have elite hands or vision. He can back people off with exceptional skating and create room for himself, but I dont think he can effectively run a power play. I was told my evualation was wrong and to back it up. It took me about 5 minutes to find many people who had similar view.

I started taking more of a statistical approach.

With Highes, I watched him at the WC and on YouTube videos. Based off my viewing, I think he will have problems defending at the NHL level, not off the rush, but in front of the net and a long the boards.

Hughes avoiding to get measured at the combine suggests he might be trying to conceal something. If he ends up being sub 5-10, it will take a general manager with a lot of intestinal fortitude to take him in the top 10. His potential height measurement would simply back up my observations that he can't defend in the NHL

Going back to Dobson, I wouldn't be surprised if the Sens had little interest in him. I think his skating and IQ at the junior level covers up a lot of his deficiencies. And we haven't heard Dobson's name from Garrioch's mouth in ages. The Dobson thing is being drummed up by hfboards from what I can tell.

So I bet you hate my observations just as much as my stats and measurements. I am consistent.

I appreciate the effort you put into your analysis, and the time you spend to lay it out on here to read.

Personally I want BT, as I think he could be a catalysts for this team everywhere from the ice to the locker room, the type of guy that makes the rest of the team work harder, and play better. Add that he looks to have exceptional skills and he's the type of complete player that we need above all else.

To me he's the kind of player that makes you proud of your team. I'm excited fro the draft regardless as we'll get a good player that I'll like, but I want this kid.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

Bouchard looks like a 26 year old, but he can certainly add pounds to that frame.

Dobson and Tkachuk can definitely get a lot bigger.

How much do you think it impacts Hughes draft status if ends being sub 5-10? Could he have a significant fall? He looked tiny next to his draft class on Coach's corner.

I think this is something to really watch out for this draft.

If he is there in the mid teens, Ottawa could make a serious play for him.

It wouldn't be the first time a highly thought of D-man slides.

Have we heard anything on the two other visitors to Ottawa yet?

You could be right but I'd be very surprised. I think Boqvist would be the guy who slides but Hughes has really climbed up the board of public opinion lately. Karlsson was far less polished and came up in an era where size was far more taboo and he still went 15th. Given Hughes all-around ability plus the fact that he has a relatively thick frame, I don't think he will drop much (if at all). If he was 6'3 like the other guys, I think he would be the clearcut #2 DMan and some teams might even have him over Dahlin.

 

[Mr Hat]

I think Carolina takes Svechnikov if they keep their pick, which I think they will. I do think Montreal passes on Zadina in favor of one of (Tkachuk, Dobson, Bouchard or Kotkaniemi). I do not know what the Sens will do when that happens but I think there is a good chance they take Zadina.

This. Zadina is the clear #3, if he is available I think Dorion and company cash in on the mistake by the habs. It would be a dream come true for Tkachuck to go to habs and watch that dumpster fire continue to grow.

 

[Cosmix]

This. Zadina is the clear #3, if he is available I think Dorion and company cash in on the mistake by the habs. It would be a dream come true for Tkachuck to go to habs and watch that dumpster fire continue to grow.

Why would it be a “dream come true” for Tkachuk to be taken by Montreal?

Boston perhaps.

 

[Genuflexion]

With a pick this high you draft for quality of player, not needs

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Why would it be a “dream come true” for Tkachuk to be taken by Montreal?

Boston perhaps.

Because it seems a subset of our fan base has decided that Tkachuk is a 100% bona fide bust.

 

[Hale The Villain]

The probability that Tkachuk busts is extremely low, but the chances of Tkachuk ending up the best player out of the guys in the second tier (Zadina, Bouchard, Dobson, Kotkaniemi, Hughes, Wahlstrom, etc...) is quite low as well.

He's a low-upside high-floor player. He'd be a bunt at 4th OVR, and that's a pick that we should be trying to hit a home-run with.

 

[Langdon Alger]

This. Zadina is the clear #3, if he is available I think Dorion and company cash in on the mistake by the habs. It would be a dream come true for Tkachuck to go to habs and watch that dumpster fire continue to grow.

There’s also the possibility Montreal trades back from 3 and whoever trades up grabs Zadina. I’m hopeful he’s still there at 4, but I’m guessing he probably won’t be.

 

[aragorn]

Ottawa already has Logan Brown as a potential #1 centre & while I like Tkachuk a lot, I would also be fine if they were to pick Kotkaniemi at 4th overall. I'm a big fan of strength down the middle & having Brown & Kotkaniemi as the future top 2 centres would probably be great for this franchise. Kotkaniemi would probably push Brown for the top spot & he may be more ready than Brown to play in the NHL or very close to it, since he already plays on a men's team in Finland. He's got good size, is a decent skater but it's his vision, hockey IQ & playmaking skills that set him apart & IMO could see him shoot up into the top 5 draft rankings. Obviously, they need some experience & development but they could also over time push Duchene to the wing to improve the overall balance of the team. I would now take Kotkaniemi over any of the defencemen at this point. Noel would also be a good addition to this franchise at #22 & could play a similar role to Tom Wilson with his size, skill, skating & physical play in future.

Duchene - Brown - Stone
Hoffman - Kotkaniemi - Ryan
Formenton - White - Batherson
Gagne - Paul - Noel

Jesperi Kotkaniemi - NHL - DraftSite.com

NHL Mock Draft 2018: Washington Capitals Select Jesperi Kotkaniemi with the No. 11 Pick

"The 6-2, 190-pound Kotkaniemi is a player that impressed in his first full season in the top pro league in Finland and also starred for Team Finland on their World Junior team as well. The big Finn has great vision and playmaking ability along with the versatility of playing center or wing and could check off a lot of boxes. The 10 goals and 29 points in 57 games for Liiga as a teenager were very impressive, and the sense with his game based on skill and strength is that it wouldn’t take him long to start making an impact in the NHL. Kotkaniemi is a player whose stock is most definitely rising."

 

[Shruggs Peterson]

Duchene - Brown - Stone
Hoffman - Kotkaniemi - Ryan
Formenton - White - Batherson
Gagne - Paul - Noel

Jesperi Kotkaniemi - NHL - DraftSite.com

NHL Mock Draft 2018: Washington Capitals Select Jesperi Kotkaniemi with the No. 11 Pick

"The 6-2, 190-pound Kotkaniemi is a player that impressed in his first full season in the top pro league in Finland and also starred for Team Finland on their World Junior team as well. The big Finn has great vision and playmaking ability along with the versatility of playing center or wing and could check off a lot of boxes. The 10 goals and 29 points in 57 games for Liiga as a teenager were very impressive, and the sense with his game based on skill and strength is that it wouldn’t take him long to start making an impact in the NHL. Kotkaniemi is a player whose stock is most definitely rising."

I think if any team is going to surprise and pick Kotkaniemi higher than projected it will be Montreal. I'd be thrilled if the Sens had Zadina to pick at #4. Also the forward corps posted don't inspire much confidence, especially down the middle. Do those 4 centres combined have 100 games between them? Duchene would definitely C that top line and Brown can start out playing #2-3C

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

The probability that Tkachuk busts is extremely low, but the chances of Tkachuk ending up the best player out of the guys in the second tier (Zadina, Bouchard, Dobson, Kotkaniemi, Hughes, Wahlstrom, etc...) is quite low as well.

He's a low-upside high-floor player. He'd be a bunt at 4th OVR, and that's a pick that we should be trying to hit a home-run with.

Haha, I like this analogy. Drafting Tkachuk 4h overall is like bunting with the bases loaded, 2 outs and down by 4 in the bottom of the 9th.

 

[TkachukNorris79]

Haha, I like this analogy. Drafting Tkachuk 4h overall is like bunting with the bases loaded, 2 outs and down by 4 in the bottom of the 9th.

Also a very good analogy. Love it.

Except we're DEFINITELY down by more than 4.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Meh. I don't think Tkachuk is that bad at 4. His stats will likely be underwhelming for a fourth overall pick, but he'll be a crowd favorite. At this point, the only guy in the top 10 who looks like a real mistake to pick at 4 would be Boqvist.

 

[BonkTastic]

Why would it be a “dream come true” for Tkachuk to be taken by Montreal?

Boston perhaps.

It would be a dream come true (and the pinnacle of irony) if Montreal traded the pick away for David Desharnais and a 2nd rounder.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

It would be a dream come true (and the pinnacle of irony) if Montreal traded the pick away for David Desharnais and a 2nd rounder.

Hell, why stop there? We could probably convince Ryder to come out of retirement and make it Halak, Ryder and a 2nd!

 

[bert]

Nope, I first started making evaluations strictly on my viewings. For instance, I argued that Dobson, based off viewings, doesn't have elite hands or vision. He can back people off with exceptional skating and create room for himself, but I dont think he can effectively run a power play. I was told my evualation was wrong and to back it up. It took me about 5 minutes to find many people who had similar view.

I started taking more of a statistical approach.

With Highes, I watched him at the WC and on YouTube videos. Based off my viewing, I think he will have problems defending at the NHL level, not off the rush, but in front of the net and a long the boards.

Hughes avoiding to get measured at the combine suggests he might be trying to conceal something. If he ends up being sub 5-10, it will take a general manager with a lot of intestinal fortitude to take him in the top 10. His potential height measurement would simply back up my observations that he can't defend in the NHL

Going back to Dobson, I wouldn't be surprised if the Sens had little interest in him. I think his skating and IQ at the junior level covers up a lot of his deficiencies. And we haven't heard Dobson's name from Garrioch's mouth in ages. The Dobson thing is being drummed up by hfboards from what I can tell.

So I bet you hate my observations just as much as my stats and measurements. I am consistent.

Well you tried to argue scoring lots of goals meant a player lacked hockey sense so since then ive been skeptical of your takes. You then tried to cherry pick stats to prove your point with Zadina which leads me to believe you had an agenda.

You might be correct about Hughes in regards to defending in front of his net (I didnt mind his board play against men when he was 19 either), but he certainly doesnt have trouble defending on the rush, or in the neutral zone, he is actually very elite at this. Against Canada in particular he skated big players off the puck and stole it off them on more than one occasion. His ability to escape the zone clean whether passing or skating the puck is second to none in the draft meaning less time defending. You're right though he might have trouble if he gets locked into one on one battles due to his size. However if he was 2 inches taller he would be in the conversation for second overall hence why he will be in the 6 to 10 range.

Dobson has alot of developing to do, I would agree with you his hands are not elite.... Yet. He is 17 and 6'3 lots of time for that to develop, he is a very fluid skater for his size already and showed the ability to walk the line so I am skeptical about your statement of him not being able to run a power play. Jones was very similar in his draft year and he was a year older.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

The probability that Tkachuk busts is extremely low, but the chances of Tkachuk ending up the best player out of the guys in the second tier (Zadina, Bouchard, Dobson, Kotkaniemi, Hughes, Wahlstrom, etc...) is quite low as well.

He's a low-upside high-floor player. He'd be a bunt at 4th OVR, and that's a pick that we should be trying to hit a home-run with.

but heres the thing.. there might not be any home run potential for us at 4.[/QUOTE]

 

[DJB]

@Hale The Villain @FolignoQuantumLeap
@MelnykOut

If anything taking Tkachuk is stepping up to the plate and taking a giant home run swing because if he hits like some scouts believe he will become a first line forward, I think you have yourself a 500 foot grand slam, and not a bunt but that's just me.

 

[Micklebot]

@Hale The Villain @FolignoQuantumLeap
@MelnykOut

If anything taking Tkachuk is stepping up to the plate and taking a giant home run swing because if he hits like some scouts believe he will become a first line forward, I think you have yourself a 500 foot grand slam, and not a bunt but that's just me.

The director at ISS thinks he could become a 1st line center, not sure that's realistic, but I'd say that's swinging for the fences if a team thinks that.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Yea, I see a conservative 50 point projection for Tkachuk with an all-around game and gritty leadership attitude. Which is an above average top 6er. Best case I see him as a 65 point version of his father or Simmonds.