If your goal is to make a playoff run next yr (w/o ruining our future).. what do you do?

[Gniwder]

Scrap the trash and roll the young guys.

once shl is done bring guys over and see what we have

Berggren Larkin Raymond
Bertuzzi Suter Fabbri
Vrana Veleno Zadina
Soderblom Rasmussen Erne

Not making playoffs this year. give guys a taste

Soderblom is 20 yo, so it burns an entire year off his ELC if he signs and plays even one game this season.
Berggren is not eligible to slide, but GR needs him since they are on the edge of a playoff spot.

In terms of salary cap, it would be better to wait until teh offseason to sign the SHL kids.

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

Disagree to the extent that this is a rebuild. Edvinsson, Johansson, Soderblom, etc. might not be 100% ready to play the NHL roles I want them to.. but part of a rebuild is throwing kids into roles that are a little bigger than they're ready for.. and watching them grow. You've got Edvinsson on a 3rd pair playing 10 minutes a night (would never happen). You've got Johansson and Soderblom in Grand Rapids. That, to me, is detrimental to the rebound. These are guys who I think are going to be an important part of our future. And they need to start getting real, big-role NHL experience.

Sign Domi and Zadorov to two yr Suter-like show-me contracts.
*not predicting trades..

Bertuzzi---Larkin---Raymond
Vrana---Domi---Soderblom
Fabbri---Suter---Rasmussen
Berggren---Veleno---Zadina

Edvinsson---Seider
Johansson---Lindstrom
Zadorov---Hronek

Ned
???

Shockingly better team with just two strikes. Our ready young guys (Edvinsson, Johansson and Soderblom) all get big roles. Short-term deals don't hurt us cap-wise when Seider, Raymond, etc. start getting paid. Short-term deals don't block other prospects from breaking in when they're ready.

You're delusional if you think the addition of four rookies, at least two of them in top six/top four roles, Domi and Zadorov can turn the Wings into a playoff team next season.

 

[blueadams]

Yzerman has a lot of strengths as a GM.
-He personally obviously has a great eye for on-ice talent.
-He has a great eye for staff talent. Scouts, developmental guys, coaches.
-He understands winning hockey culture, and that factors into every guy who's been brought into the organization.
-He's a great leader, and communicator.. he sets the tone.. and there seems to never be anything that's dealt with improperly.
-He understands development, and he always seems to have his players in the right position to grow.
-He seems to understand other front-offices around the league so well that you'd think he has GMs' cell phones' bugged.
-He's unbelievable negotiator, in trades, in contracts, just wow so far.

But what a lot of you seem to be forgetting is his patience, especially in the FA and trade market. Yzerman really is sort of a "let things come to me" GM. He's patient. And he times things right. I don't think his plan was to trade Mantha, but when that deal was available, he jumped on it. I don't think he planned to pick up Ned or Suter for next-to-nothing going into last off-season, but when he realized they were available for next-to-nothing, he jumped on it. He's drafted arguably the best player in the last 3 drafts; he didn't trade up to get them.. he took what came to him.. (and I bet he would've got the next best player in the draft had Seider/Raymond/Edvinsson not been there). Trading up to get Cossa and Buium last yr was really the most aggressive he's been.....and I think that's just because he got burned on some guys he really wanted late in the '20 draft (particularly, I think Cross Hanas was drafted after a couple dissapointments).

Point being, Yzerman's not gonna go out and pay overmarket for a hot FA in his prime. He's not going to get into a bidding war for anyone. He's not going to overbid for anyone. He's probably not even going to pay market-value for anyone. He's most likely just going to sit back, patiently watch, and jump on any great value deals that avail themselves to him.

 

[blueadams]

You're delusional if you think the addition of four rookies, at least two of them in top six/top four roles, Domi and Zadorov can turn the Wings into a playoff team next season.

Just having Vrana all yr this yr probably makes us a borderline playoff team......

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

Yzerman has a lot of strengths as a GM.
-He personally obviously has a great eye for on-ice talent.
-He has a great eye for staff talent. Scouts, developmental guys, coaches.
-He understands winning hockey culture, and that factors into every guy who's been brought into the organization.
-He's a great leader, and communicator.. he sets the tone.. and there seems to never be anything that's dealt with improperly.
-He understands development, and he always seems to have his players in the right position to grow.
-He seems to understand other front-offices around the league so well that you'd think he has GMs' cell phones' bugged.
-He's unbelievable negotiator, in trades, in contracts, just wow so far.

But what a lot of you seem to be forgetting is his patience, especially in the FA and trade market. Yzerman really is sort of a "let things come to me" GM. He's patient. And he times things right. I don't think his plan was to trade Mantha, but when that deal was available, he jumped on it. I don't think he planned to pick up Ned or Suter for next-to-nothing going into last off-season, but when he realized they were available for next-to-nothing, he jumped on it. He's drafted arguably the best player in the last 3 drafts; he didn't trade up to get them.. he took what came to him.. (and I bet he would've got the next best player in the draft had Seider/Raymond/Edvinsson not been there). Trading up to get Cossa and Buium last yr was really the most aggressive he's been.....and I think that's just because he got burned on some guys he really wanted late in the '20 draft (particularly, I think Cross Hanas was drafted after a couple dissapointments).

Point being, Yzerman's not gonna go out and pay overmarket for a hot FA in his prime. He's not going to get into a bidding war for anyone. He's not going to overbid for anyone. He's probably not even going to pay market-value for anyone. He's most likely just going to sit back, patiently watch, and jump on any great value deals that avail themselves to him.

This post is mostly on point though I doubt many people are forgetting that SY is a patient GM or that he's judicious in the moves he makes. It's the people who submit posts about making the playoffs next season that are A) under-estimating the quality that would need to be added; and B) want SY to move faster than he obviously has to date.

 

[jkutswings]

I don't even know where to go with this thread. There are several posts that persistently ignore that the vast majority of players excelling in developmental leagues do NOT jump straight to playing even passable NHL hockey, let alone playing well enough as rookies to help a team make the next jump to a playoff berth.

Otherwise, let's just sign the top 5-6 high schoolers scoring 4 points per game, and Underpants Gnome Logic our way to a Stanley Cup.

Keep the steady build via the draft, make 1-2 medium additions per summer, and wait until you're only a piece away from a DEEP playoff run before you swing for the fences in free agency.

 

[nhlisawesome]

Don’t think that we’ve solved the issue of goaltending yet either. Greiss will be gone and Nedelkovich is close to being under .900 save percentage. Cossa himself is just doing alright in the WHL

 

[Gniwder]

Point being, Yzerman's not gonna go out and pay overmarket for a hot FA in his prime. He's not going to get into a bidding war for anyone. He's not going to overbid for anyone. He's probably not even going to pay market-value for anyone. He's most likely just going to sit back, patiently watch, and jump on any great value deals that avail themselves to him.

Then why did you start another thread? Just to be a dick?

 

[blueadams]

I don't even know where to go with this thread. There are several posts that persistently ignore that the vast majority of players excelling in developmental leagues do NOT jump straight to playing even passable NHL hockey, let alone playing well enough as rookies to help a team make the next jump to a playoff berth.

Otherwise, let's just sign the top 5-6 high schoolers scoring 4 points per game, and Underpants Gnome Logic our way to a Stanley Cup.

Keep the steady build via the draft, make 1-2 medium additions per summer, and wait until you're only a piece away from a DEEP playoff run before you swing for the fences in free agency.

Okay. Explain to me which of these guys isn't ready and why.

1. Edvinsson. You'd have a hard time finding a scout anywhere who doesn't think he's ready --- right now --- let alone next fall. Not even going to bother addressing that one.

2. Soderblom. 3 full yrs post draft. 2+ full yrs in the 3rd best league in the world. 5th leader in goals amongst players of all ages in the 3rd best league in the world (#1 in pts and goals amongst 21 and unders). He's already more physically imposing than 99% of the players in the NHL.

3. Johansson. 3 full yrs post draft. 3+ full yrs in the 3rd best league in the world. Currently 8th amongst defensemen of all ages in points in the 3rd best league in the world (1st among 21 and unders).

What am I persistently ignoring here?

 

[Reddwit]

Just having Vrana all yr this yr probably makes us a borderline playoff team......

Yeah, Vrana is gonna do a whole lot to help our Swiss cheese defense.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

1. You compared Soderblom to Rasmussen dude. You need to watch him play. Or get your eyes checked.

2. We're in a rebuild and getting young players experience. They're not going to be perfect. Nor do they need to be. If Edvinsson, Johansson and Soderblom playing next yr in the NHL -- as opposed to the AHL/SHL -- ultimately makes them better players 2 or 3 yrs down the road, you do it. And I firmly believe that is Yzerman's #1, #2, #3, #4 and #5 concerns in making the call-up decisions. And it could be that more time in the minors is ultimately what's best for them 2 or 3 yrs down the road.

3. Can you imagine how much better we would be if you just swapped out DDK for Johansson today. If you can't, you need to watch him play too.

1. I compared him in that I think if you rush him over here directly from the SHL into the league, you're going to get a very underwhelming "return" on Soderblom's talent and in a year or two, people will bitch about Elmer just like they do about Rasmussen. No more, no less.

2. You started the topic by saying "How do we make a playoff run without ruining our future?" And then you just want to throw a bunch of rookies out to grow and if they fail, they fail because it'll be good a couple years from now. You're invalidating your own question. Also, Edvinsson, Johansson, and Soderblom can develop just fine if they come over and play in the A for a bit. It's not going to ruin their development to play out of the spotlight to adjust to smaller ice. By the end of this line, it almost seems like you're agreeing with me that they shouldn't be up immediately. So now I don't know where you're coming from.

3. I don't think we'd be better at all. We'd just be a different kind of bad. I know everyone hates DDK, but wasn't our defense supposed to get way better if we just scrapped Ericsson and let Kronwall and his decrepit knees retire?

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Okay. Explain to me which of these guys isn't ready and why.

1. Edvinsson. You'd have a hard time finding a scout anywhere who doesn't think he's ready --- right now --- let alone next fall. Not even going to bother addressing that one.

2. Soderblom. 3 full yrs post draft. 2+ full yrs in the 3rd best league in the world. 5th leader in goals amongst players of all ages in the 3rd best league in the world (#1 in pts and goals amongst 21 and unders). He's already more physically imposing than 99% of the players in the NHL.

3. Johansson. 3 full yrs post draft. 3+ full yrs in the 3rd best league in the world. Currently 8th amongst defensemen of all ages in points in the 3rd best league in the world (1st among 21 and unders).

What am I persistently ignoring here?

What you are persistently ignoring is that while the SHL might be the third-best league in the world, there is a big jump from it to the NHL. Hell, the AHL is a jump in its own way, because the rink dimensions are completely different. It probably won't hurt Soderblom as he's an in tight kind of forward, but free-skating Johansson? What happens to him when the huge lanes he'll use get closed off way faster because there is less rink to play with AND the defenders he's going against are way faster.

 

[jkutswings]

What you are persistently ignoring is that while the SHL might be the third-best league in the world, there is a big jump from it to the NHL. Hell, the AHL is a jump in its own way, because the rink dimensions are completely different. It probably won't hurt Soderblom as he's an in tight kind of forward, but free-skating Johansson? What happens to him when the huge lanes he'll use get closed off way faster because there is less rink to play with AND the defenders he's going against are way faster.

All of this. Plus the fact that there's yet another very large gap between said rookies handling the jump, and the talent boost provided by one or more quality NHL veterans.

If you wanna add 3-4 kids, fine.

If you wanna hope you can still make the playoffs, fine.

But if you wanna jumpstart a roster to go from almost bubble team to actually winning a round or two, that degree of talent infusion is mutually exclusive to adding that many rookies. (Because by adding 3-4, the most likely outcome is 1-2 being completely lost, and another 1-2 treading water in depth roles.)

 

[SirKillalot]

GOAL:
-In net we've got our guy in Ned. Top-5'ish level NHL goaltender.
-Need a backup of some sort. FA most likely. Any ideas?

D:
-Fk it. Play Mo and Edvinsson together. They'll be a top-5-10 NHL pair by the playoffs.
-Johansson-Lindstrom I actually think could be a pretty great pair. Young puck mover w/ the steady responsible defender.
-??? and Hronek. I don't think any LH on our roster is good enough to survive a Hronek pairing. Maybe you can find a vet on a 1 or 2 yr deal. Any ideas?

Centers.
-Larkin is one top-six center.
-Suter is a fine 3rd line center.
-Any idea on who we can sign to be a 2nd line C? Hopefully a vet on a short-term deal who won't impede our future.

Wings:
-Raymond, Vrana, Bert gives you 3 great top-six wings out of the gate. I personally think Soderblom gives you 4.
-Fabbri, Berggren.. maybe that's an okay 3rd line.

4th Line:
-Ras centering Veleno and Zadina...or Erne and Smith..or Veleno centering. Seems like a fine-enough garbage/last chance line to me

To become a playoff team it's not gonna happen with two youngsters on top pairing d.

Now what one need to do?
Sign goalie which is a 1B type of goalie.
Look at Bertuzzi if he is still here, figure out do you trade him while he's hot or do you go full ride and sign him to an extension and accept he will have a salary cap he might not play up to, but otherwise a "locker room" guy to justify the price. If not trade him for a good return. I would look at trading Bertuzzi.

Sign a top six center of free agency.

So top six will be signed C, Larkin, Raymond, Vrana for sure.

? - Larkin - Raymond
Vrana - ? - Zadina
Fabbri - Suter - Veleno
V. Namestnikov - Rasmussen - Erne
G. Smith

? - Seider
Leddy - Hronek
? - Stecher/Lindstrom

Nedeljkovic
?

It depends a little who steps up or not. I would like to see Zadina grab that higher spot and be put in a role to succeed.
I would like to see Berggren and another young forward get into the lineup.
I would like to see Edvinsson make it. Most likely he plays in Grand Rapids.
I want to see Veleno grab a center-role, but given the current roster he might not be there for now.
Either way the younger players gotta take steps.

But realistically, lineup might look something like above. Most likely with Bertuzzi also.
Either way I think in addition to re-signing Leddy and Stecher go out and find another d-man.
Someone who goes straight in the top four D and has trade value, pushing Leddy down.

On the forward side, Filip Forsberg would make sense.
I think Rakell or Jarnkrok is more realistic.
On defense there are some who are more obtainable than others.

Who would make sense to pursue?
Filip Forsberg
T. Hertl
J. Gaudreau
R. Rakell
C. Jarnkrok
E. Rodrigues
I. Mikheyev
A. Athanasiou
F. Vatrano
M. Janmark

R. Ristolainen
H. Lindholm
J. Klingberg
J. Manson
J. Schultz

J. Korpisalo

 

[blueadams]

3. I don't think we'd be better at all. We'd just be a different kind of bad. I know everyone hates DDK, but wasn't our defense supposed to get way better if we just scrapped Ericsson and let Kronwall and his decrepit knees retire?

You've established yourself as not worth debating with here. Either you haven't watched Johansson play and are just talking out of your rear again. Or your eyes don't work when hockey games are on. If you don't think Seider would be playing significantly better with AJ at his side than DDK..... we're just done talking. Perdon.

 

[blueadams]

All of this. Plus the fact that there's yet another very large gap between said rookies handling the jump, and the talent boost provided by one or more quality NHL veterans.

If you wanna add 3-4 kids, fine.

If you wanna hope you can still make the playoffs, fine.

But if you wanna jumpstart a roster to go from almost bubble team to actually winning a round or two, that degree of talent infusion is mutually exclusive to adding that many rookies. (Because by adding 3-4, the most likely outcome is 1-2 being completely lost, and another 1-2 treading water in depth roles.)

We've got 3 rookies in the lineup this yr (Seider, Raymond, Ned). They've been arguably our 3 best players. No one is more responsible for our impovement than them.

I'm just talking to walls here.

 

[blueadams]

To become a playoff team it's not gonna happen with two youngsters on top pairing d.

1.
I think Seider should've made the All-Star game this year.
I think he's going to be a lot better next yr.
I think Edvinsson could be as good next yr as Seider's been this yr.
They're young. They're special. And there's nothing wrong with having two young All-Star-level players on your top pair.

2.
Yzerman has never signed a bigtime FA in his prime. Stop.

 

[Geezer WC]

Bertuzzi---Larkin---Raymond
Vrana---Domi---Soderblom
Fabbri---Suter---Rasmussen
Berggren---Veleno---Zadina

Edvinsson---Seider
Johansson---Lindstrom
Zadorov---Hronek

Ned
???

IMO you don't pay a guy $4.4m to be a #6 D when Lindstrom is doing fine in that role for $850k. If he's not a top 4..move him for assets.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

We've got 3 rookies in the lineup this yr (Seider, Raymond, Ned). They've been arguably our 3 best players. No one is more responsible for our impovement than them.

I'm just talking to walls here.

Correlation does not equal causation. Seider and Raymond stepping in and playing incredibly does not mean that you always put rookies in the league ASAP. Those two are exceptional players. What utilization works for them is not a reason to rush to put any and all young players in the league right away. The reason why Blashill used the "I'll call up Raymond if my wife thinks he's good enough to make the team" is because he wanted Raymond's skill to literally hop off the ice when you watch him to justify bringing him up. Same thing happens next camp and Edvinsson comes in and is so good you can't keep him down, we cross that bridge when we come to it.

Throwing in guys like Johansson, Edvinsson, Berggren, Soderblom en masse is going to leave you disappointed more often than not. Guys hitting the ground like Seider and Raymond are the exception. You need to understand that. I don't care how good a kid looks in Sweden or in the OHL or whatnot, the failure rate for prospects is insanely high.

I would also put a lot of responsibility for our improvement on a resurgent Dylan Larkin and Tyler Bertuzzi taking another step forward (seriously, watch our team when we play in Canada and Bertuzzi misses the games)

 

[19 for president]

I see which one of Malkin, Bergeron, or maybe Giroux is interested in our 2C role for a year or two.

Sign Lindholm to a 6 or 7 year deal. Plop him with Seider for a 1st pair.

Look for a 4th line phyical player upgrade over current group.

Probably trade Zadina as I think Berg takes his spot on the 3rd line.

Vrana- Larkin- Ray
Fabbri-Malkin-Bert
Berggren/Zadina-Veleno-Suter
UFA-Ras-Smith

Seider- Lindholm
Hronek-Edvidsson
Lindstrom-Sebrango
UFA (defensive dman)

Ned
Ufa

 

[Gniwder]

Correlation does not equal causation. Seider and Raymond stepping in and playing incredibly does not mean that you always put rookies in the league ASAP. Those two are exceptional players. What utilization works for them is not a reason to rush to put any and all young players in the league right away. The reason why Blashill used the "I'll call up Raymond if my wife thinks he's good enough to make the team" is because he wanted Raymond's skill to literally hop off the ice when you watch him to justify bringing him up. Same thing happens next camp and Edvinsson comes in and is so good you can't keep him down, we cross that bridge when we come to it.

Throwing in guys like Johansson, Edvinsson, Berggren, Soderblom en masse is going to leave you disappointed more often than not. Guys hitting the ground like Seider and Raymond are the exception. You need to understand that. I don't care how good a kid looks in Sweden or in the OHL or whatnot, the failure rate for prospects is insanely high.

I would also put a lot of responsibility for our improvement on a resurgent Dylan Larkin and Tyler Bertuzzi taking another step forward (seriously, watch our team when we play in Canada and Bertuzzi misses the games)

Meh, don't bother explaining it too him, he's just setting himself up for disappointment next season.

 

[jkutswings]

Not that I think it will do any good, but here:

https://morehockeystats.com/drafts/pickstats

If you sort for defensemen, it says that based on all the NHL drafts since 1969, the average 6th overall pick should play 540 games in his NHL career and score 371 points. That works out to 56 points per season for a career average, based on 82 games a year.

Seider is hitting (and possibly surpassing) that career average as a rookie.

If player development were physics, Mo is Sheldon Cooper. But that doesn't mean we should assume that Edvinsson (or any other rookies Detroit continues to add) will also be child prodigies the moment they step into the league, regardless of how well they're doing against lesser competition.

 

[SantosHalper]

I wouldn't do lot of changes, this years team has shown lot of character in tough spots. I don't know if this team is enough to get in the playoffs, but im damn sure that this team will fight for the spot until the very final games.

Vrana - Larkin - Raymond
Fabbri - Suter - Bertuzzi
Berggren - Veleno - Zadina
Nam - Ras - Erne
Smith, Gagner

UFA - Seider
Staal - Hronek
Edvinsson - Lindström
Oesterle

Neddy
Greiss/UFA

UFA= Ian Cole, Nikita Zadorov, Ben Chiarot, Ben Hutton
I don't see Yzerman signing any big UFA names, i would love to have Lindholm and Forsberg but i just don't see it happening. Eventually Lindholm will re-sign with the Ducks, they need him more than Lindholm needs them. Forsberg is looking for a big paycheck, now we do have room to sign him. But in the near future we have couple tremendous kids that needs a more suitable pay checks, cap situation might get bit tight.

GRG is going to look very interesting next year, Söderblom, Johansson, Viro, Hanas, Cotton, Mastrosimone, Phillips.

 

[blueadams]

IMO you don't pay a guy $4.4m to be a #6 D when Lindstrom is doing fine in that role for $850k. If he's not a top 4..move him for assets.

If it's just a two-yr deal, I don't care..

2022:
Edvinsson-Seider
Johansson-Lindstrom
Zadorov-Hronek

2023:
Edvinsson-Seider
Johansson-Lindstrom
Zadorov-Wallinder
(trade Hronek)

2024:
Edvinsson-Seider
Johansson-Lindstrom
Buium-Wallinder

 

[blueadams]

Soderblom is going to be the new age Rasmussen

Full Athletic.com article on the guy you called the next Rasmussen yesterday there Scotty Bowman Jr.

A Red Wings' prospect unicorn, Elmer Söderblom is outgrowing the SHL