If your goal is to make a playoff run next yr (w/o ruining our future).. what do you do?

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Based off your vast knowledge of never watching them play together... lol. Love it.

I'm not saying they'll be good bad or any other which way together but Johansson looks good. So... Idk. Say whatever makes you feel good I guess but it surely has no real substance and is a complete opinion.

Fine, let me couch it in the fact that for 2022-2023, it would be a very poor choice. I know Mo Seider is making it look easy, but rookies do not usually carry a defensive pairing. I believe it is a completely unsupported narrative to think you can slap a rookie in Johansson with a plugger like Lindstrom and they’ll be a plus pairing.

 

[RedWingzz]

After last night's game, I think it's pretty apparent what needs to be done. The D needs to be fixed...

Edvinsson should help, but Yzerman will ned to trade for or sign at least 2 more defencemen that can actually defend.

Also, I think we need to sign someone to share the net with Ned. I like Ned, but he is very inconsistent, and hasn't been stopping the puck recently. I'm not sure how your original post claims he's a "top 5ish NHL goalie". Not sure I agree with that at all....

With Vrana back, and Berggren coming, I think the offense is fine. A proven 2C would be nice though.

 

[Ricelund]

Fine, let me couch it in the fact that for 2022-2023, it would be a very poor choice. I know Mo Seider is making it look easy, but rookies do not usually carry a defensive pairing. I believe it is a completely unsupported narrative to think you can slap a rookie in Johansson with a plugger like Lindstrom and they’ll be a plus pairing.

I agree for the most part here but think you're underrating Lindstrom. He's actually pretty good.

 

[blueadams]

Be honest. Your kink is trying to see how many times you can post the exact same thread, changing only the title, before someone calls you out for it, isn't it?

Meh. This is the first time I've gotten the conversation I wanted to have. I live abroad and work a lot of hours. Rarely stream non-Wings games. Wanted to hear what the board...what guys who watch a lot of non-Wings games...thought about the market.

My thoughts on guys mentioned thus far..

Forwards:
-Forsberg: 2. Yzerman's not gonna sign a bigtime FA in his prime. Forget about it.
-Hertl: 2. Ditto.
-Trocheck: 1. Ditto.
-Kadri: 1. Ditto.

Defensemen:
-Lindholm: 5. Ditto.
-Zadorov: 2. Depends on the price.. could be a Suter-like signing.
-Staal: 1.5, Leddy: 0.5. I'd like to see both Edvinsson and Johansson in the lineup next yr. I don't want either playing with the defensive disaster that is Hronek. And you're gonna need someone much better than Staal or Leddy if Hronek's pair isn't going to be a complete disaster.

Goalies:
Georgiev(T): 1. Idk much about him. But I do like the idea of teaming Ned with another young experienced NHL goalie (as opposed to a guy in his mid to late 30s).
-Joren van Pottelberghe: 1. I'd much rather guy w/ NHL experience, but Yzerman knows best.

Coach:
-Maurice. Don't know much about him. I bet Yzerman's got a guy in mind already though. And I bet this is the off-season he pulls the trigger.

 

[blueadams]

I think you guys need to take a look at Yzerman's track record as a GM. He has NEVER signed a bigtime FA in his prime earning yrs. Never. He's not about to start now.

Nice veterans who can be signed to 1-2 yr deals or Suter like steals are what you guys need to turn your sights toward.

 

[blueadams]

Johansson-Lindstrom would be one of the more underwhelming pairings I've ever seen in my life. Lindstrom is "good" in that he's virtually absent. You're asking a f***ing lot to have Albert Johansson step in and carry a pairing.

I know you hate Hronek and I don't really understand it. He's our second best D-man right now. He's a whole lot better than Lindstrom.

I don't have anywhere near the faith you do in any of the prospects you've listed other than Edvinsson. Soderblom is going to be the new age Rasmussen

You either A) haven't watched Soderblom play and are just talking out of your bleep. B) Are a troll. C) Don't know very much about hockey.

Further, I stand by my comment. I think Johansson-Lindstrom would be an outstanding pairing. He's a great defender. He's completely carried Staal/whoever else he's played w/ all yr. Staal-Lindstrom is a great pairing. Staal-Hronek is one of the worst pairings we've ever seen. Lindstrom is an excellent, sturdy, smart, responsible, defensively-sound stay-at-home defender. He'd be absolutely perfect for a young, undersized puck mover who can fly like Johansson. Nice that they're both Swedes as well. He'll be there to cover for Johansson's mistakes. He'll be happy to let Johansson carry. I think they could be excellent. And unless you brought in someone really good to play with Hronek.. I think Johansson-Lindstrom would be your second pair.

"You don't want two rookies in your top-4". You guys all said "You don't want a rookie as your #1D" last summer. Yzerman's not gonna call up Edvinsson or Johansson unless its for top-4 roles. And who cares if we have two great young players who are ready at the same time.

 

[Snuggs]

Fine, let me couch it in the fact that for 2022-2023, it would be a very poor choice. I know Mo Seider is making it look easy, but rookies do not usually carry a defensive pairing. I believe it is a completely unsupported narrative to think you can slap a rookie in Johansson with a plugger like Lindstrom and they’ll be a plus pairing.

This is a way better articulation of your point. I actually agree with you.

But your previous stance.... I mean, you do remember Ericsson/Daley not long ago? Or Madison Bowey/Dennis Cholowski? Like... that's useless stuff there. I'm not ready to say they'll be on that level but also with you in saying it's really a stretch to act like those guys will be anything but supportive type pairing defense next year vs a top-notch pairing together that contributes highly to the teams success.

 

[blueadams]

Bertuzzi---Larkin---Raymond
Vrana---???---Soderblom
Fabbri---Suter---Berggren/Ras
Ras/Berggren---Veleno---Zadina

-Gotta get a #2 center. Our biggest problem offensively this yr has basically just been not having a 2nd line. Vrana's return is big. Soderblom I really think is about to break out. Put a legit #2 center between them and we're a new team.. who all the sudden has some pretty solid depth in the bottom-6 too. Probably much more likely to find a solid vet who's willing to sign a 1 or 2 yr deal than another Suter-like steal (who's better than Suter).
.....Bergeron (36) or Malkin (35). If they have any interest in leaving Boston/Pitt (doubtful), for sure.
.....Stastny (36). He might be a more realistic option...
.....Domi (27). He could actually be a sneaky Suter-like signing...
-Wing isn't our biggest need, but there's a number of veterans who could be brought in on short-term deals
.....Giroux (34), Perron (34), Pavelski (38), Radulov (36), Kessel (34)

-Some mix and match options in the top-6. If Zadina's still here, Veleno is who should center his line though. He needs to play with a hard-charging north-to-south center he can trail behind for drop and snipe opportunities.
-I think Ras's future, if he has any, will be on the wing.
-Fabbri, Suter and Berggren...all very smart, offensively talented players (lacking a bit on D). Could maybe get some line combos that work though.

Edvinsson---Seider
Johansson---Lindstrom
???---Hronek

-Gotta find someone good enough to salvage Hronek's pair into a non-disaster. We've already seen its not Leddy or Staal. I've explained above that I think Johansson-Lindstrom would be a great pairing. Why not see if Lindstrom can keep playing so well with more minutes?? And I don't think Yzerman will call up Johansson for 3rd pair minutes. And why not break Edvinsson into the league with a really great partner?? Why not give Seider a really talented guy to play with??
.....I like the idea of Zadorov (26). Big, young, defensively responsible player who could actually pair well with Hronek.. probably wouldn't be too expensive.. probably wouldn't want too many yrs either. Wallinder will probably be ready next yr (Sebrango too). Buium will probably be ready the next. You don't want a big, long signing here.
.....Giordano (38). Could make sense on a 1-yr deal?
.....Letang (35). If we trade Hronek he might make sense.

-No idea on goalie. Maybe Kuemper (32) makes sense?

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

This .500 season is offering fool's gold for those who think the Wings can make a legitimate push for playoffs next season without a massive investment in FAs or a huge trade or two. The Wings lack not only skill at a few top six/top four slots, but are also soft and slow and barely average in net. The changes required would be so unlike SY that it's only a fantasy. The best solution offered to date is ButtKrak's idea to spend big on short-term deals for Malkin and Letang. Even then, you need to add two LHD and make the bottom six faster and heavier and find a goalie. That's something like needing to add 7-8 players who have an established quality and style of play, plus getting something out of rookies Berggren and Edvinsson.

A) Sign Malkin and Letang to huge two-year deals.
B) Trade Hronek and Zadina to Seattle for Gourde and Soucy
C) Sign FA LHD Chiarot
D) Sign FA forwards Mikheyev and Motte.
E) Sgin Bertuzzi to an extension
F) Sign a goalie
G) Sign a tough guy

Lineup
Bertuzzi-Larkin-Raymond
Fabbri-Malkin-Vrana
Mikheyev-Gourde-Berggren
Rasmussen-Veleno-Motte
Stephens

Chiarot-Seider
Soucy-Letang
Edvinsson-Lindstrom
MacDermid-Oesterle

Ned-Other guy.

Obviously nothing close to his level of makeover is going to happen. Maybe SY looks for a 2C or a LHD in Free Agency this summer. Won't make any difference in terms of making the playoffs. There are still too many roster issues and too much player uncertainty for anyone to think the playoffs are possible next season without many more changes than anyone should expect from SY.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

You either A) haven't watched Soderblom play and are just talking out of your bleep. B) Are a troll. C) Don't know very much about hockey.

Further, I stand by my comment. I think Johansson-Lindstrom would be an outstanding pairing. He's a great defender. He's completely carried Staal/whoever else he's played w/ all yr. Staal-Lindstrom is a great pairing. Staal-Hronek is one of the worst pairings we've ever seen. Lindstrom is an excellent, sturdy, smart, responsible, defensively-sound stay-at-home defender. He'd be absolutely perfect for a young, undersized puck mover who can fly like Johansson. Nice that they're both Swedes as well. He'll be there to cover for Johansson's mistakes. He'll be happy to let Johansson carry. I think they could be excellent. And unless you brought in someone really good to play with Hronek.. I think Johansson-Lindstrom would be your second pair.

"You don't want two rookies in your top-4". You guys all said "You don't want a rookie as your #1D" last summer. Yzerman's not gonna call up Edvinsson or Johansson unless its for top-4 roles. And who cares if we have two great young players who are ready at the same time.

No, I know that a guy playing great in the SHL does not mean that he's going to be even a passable top 6 winger in the NHL, let alone a star. He looks like he could be good. So did Frk. So did Pulkkinen. So did insert every other prospect winger that comes through these leagues. You don't just throw rookies in and hope to god they'll be good. That's how you become Edmonton pre-McDavid. I know that you don't fill a roster up with all young kids like it's EA Sports NHL.

I think that Johansson-Lindstrom COULD become a good to great pairing. I don't think they'll be good in 2022-2023 is the point. You misunderstood. I don't think first year, rookie rail-thin Albert Johansson is going to be carrying a defensive pairing. If you don't think teams are going to pick on him in particular in that type of role, you're crazy. Has he shown any preternatural skill at avoiding big collisions? And that's what I'm saying. Laying the responsibility of your second pairing on Johansson and Lindstrom is a massive mistake if you're intending on trying to be good.

Lastly, Moritz Seider is a unicorn. Please don't attempt to use him coming in and being an awesome player as some kind of justification to push ALL the youngsters. He and Raymond have been exceptional players. I do agree that Yzerman is not going to call those guys up if it isn't for top 4 roles. That's what I'm saying. I don't think that Albert Johansson should be in the NHL next year unless something materially changes. I would want Yzerman and Co to see what Edvinsson does in training camp and preseason before I'd stump too hard to bring him here too. I do assume that Edvinsson is going to come in and show out, so he'll be here.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

This is a way better articulation of your point. I actually agree with you.

But your previous stance.... I mean, you do remember Ericsson/Daley not long ago? Or Madison Bowey/Dennis Cholowski? Like... that's useless stuff there. I'm not ready to say they'll be on that level but also with you in saying it's really a stretch to act like those guys will be anything but supportive type pairing defense next year vs a top-notch pairing together that contributes highly to the teams success.

I also made that argument under the assumption that we were trying to be good. And that a Lilja/Lebda pairing was workable because the Red Wings had 3 1Ds (including a top 3 of all time in Lidstrom) and Brad Stuart as their top 4.

Yes, Ericsson/Daley was a garbage pairing. Bowey/Cholo was a garbage pairing. They were also a part of quite possibly the worst defensive corp in the history of the NHL. If you're intending on pursuing a lottery pick next year? Go with Johansson/Lindstrom and maybe they surprise you and you've got something. But if you're actually trying to compete on par with even the bubble playoff teams? That's going to be one of the worst D pairings around simply due to inexperience and physical immaturity.

 

[lilidk]

Just like this season , let's have 3 Rockies next season. Edvinsson, Bergreen and one of Mcisaac, Viro, Johansson. I like to see Elmer be in GR and be ready jump in Red Wings uniform.
As much as I like Vlady and Fabbri , will be nice to get late first for them, don't know what we get for Leddy, but he should be gone.
Bring guy like Forsberg , if he wants 9 mil just get him ,I don't care. Bring someone, who can babysit Hronek

 

[blueadams]

No, I know that a guy playing great in the SHL does not mean that he's going to be even a passable top 6 winger in the NHL, let alone a star. He looks like he could be good. So did Frk. So did Pulkkinen. So did insert every other prospect winger that comes through these leagues. You don't just throw rookies in and hope to god they'll be good. That's how you become Edmonton pre-McDavid. I know that you don't fill a roster up with all young kids like it's EA Sports NHL.

I think that Johansson-Lindstrom COULD become a good to great pairing. I don't think they'll be good in 2022-2023 is the point. You misunderstood. I don't think first year, rookie rail-thin Albert Johansson is going to be carrying a defensive pairing. If you don't think teams are going to pick on him in particular in that type of role, you're crazy. Has he shown any preternatural skill at avoiding big collisions? And that's what I'm saying. Laying the responsibility of your second pairing on Johansson and Lindstrom is a massive mistake if you're intending on trying to be good.

Lastly, Moritz Seider is a unicorn. Please don't attempt to use him coming in and being an awesome player as some kind of justification to push ALL the youngsters. He and Raymond have been exceptional players. I do agree that Yzerman is not going to call those guys up if it isn't for top 4 roles. That's what I'm saying. I don't think that Albert Johansson should be in the NHL next year unless something materially changes. I would want Yzerman and Co to see what Edvinsson does in training camp and preseason before I'd stump too hard to bring him here too. I do assume that Edvinsson is going to come in and show out, so he'll be here.

1. You compared Soderblom to Rasmussen dude. You need to watch him play. Or get your eyes checked.

2. We're in a rebuild and getting young players experience. They're not going to be perfect. Nor do they need to be. If Edvinsson, Johansson and Soderblom playing next yr in the NHL -- as opposed to the AHL/SHL -- ultimately makes them better players 2 or 3 yrs down the road, you do it. And I firmly believe that is Yzerman's #1, #2, #3, #4 and #5 concerns in making the call-up decisions. And it could be that more time in the minors is ultimately what's best for them 2 or 3 yrs down the road.

3. Can you imagine how much better we would be if you just swapped out DDK for Johansson today. If you can't, you need to watch him play too.

 

[blueadams]

I also made that argument under the assumption that we were trying to be good. And that a Lilja/Lebda pairing was workable because the Red Wings had 3 1Ds (including a top 3 of all time in Lidstrom) and Brad Stuart as their top 4.

Yes, Ericsson/Daley was a garbage pairing. Bowey/Cholo was a garbage pairing. They were also a part of quite possibly the worst defensive corp in the history of the NHL. If you're intending on pursuing a lottery pick next year? Go with Johansson/Lindstrom and maybe they surprise you and you've got something. But if you're actually trying to compete on par with even the bubble playoff teams? That's going to be one of the worst D pairings around simply due to inexperience and physical immaturity.

Excerpt from an Athletic article this wk...


Söderblom, meanwhile, was a force. His 17 goals rank seventh among all SHL skaters, and he’s just 20 years old. On Saturday, he picked up a deflected puck, beat a defender inside, then held him off as he launched a rocket into the net.
In addition to his obvious physical tools, his shot was eye-popping all week, and although there remains some developmental road in front of him, his performance at that age in the SHL is impressive.
“His development has just skyrocketed,” said Söderblom’s linemate and the SHL’s leading point scorer, Ryan Lasch. “His upside’s huge, in my opinion, obviously. The way he’s looked the last couple months here, his confidence has just grown, and with that his game has grown, too.”
So, there’s your teaser on a couple of the players — and again, there will be much more to come on them.

 

[blueadams]

Just like this season , let's have 3 Rockies next season. Edvinsson, Bergreen and one of Mcisaac, Viro, Johansson. I like to see Elmer be in GR and be ready jump in Red Wings uniform.
As much as I like Vlady and Fabbri , will be nice to get late first for them, don't know what we get for Leddy, but he should be gone.
Bring guy like Forsberg , if he wants 9 mil just get him ,I don't care. Bring someone, who can babysit Hronek

1. Why are you still talking about McIsaac. Especially while not mentioning Sebrango who's younger than him, better than him, and playing a much bigger role than him in GR as we speak.

2. A 1st for Vlady and/or Fabbri? Pass me some.

3. Yzerman has never signed a bigtime FA in his prime in his entire front-office career. Not happening.

 

[lilidk]

1. Why are you still talking about McIsaac. Especially while not mentioning Sebrango who's younger than him, better than him, and playing a much bigger role than him in GR as we speak.

2. A 1st for Vlady and/or Fabbri? Pass me some.

3. Yzerman has never signed a bigtime FA in his prime in his entire front-office career. Not happening.

Didn't see any GR games , but I know coaches there trust Mcisaac and put him in very important situations, I ve been big Sebrango fan before we draft him and if he's ready, let him compete for spot .
Time for Yzerman to surprise you

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Malkin 2 x $10M
Letang 2 x $8M
MAF 1 x $7.5M
re-sign Staal, Namestnikov
Also need a cheap LHD
Edvinsson plays

Contracts expire when Raymond and Seider's ELCs end so it doesn't put the Wings in salary cap hell. MAF only gets one year because Bert and Larkin need new contracts. Each player gets a slight raise despite their age to convince them to come over. Yes, I realize it's overpayment for them.

Gone:
- Leddy $5.5M
- DDK $5M
- Greiss $3.6M
- Nielsen's buyout is lower by $3.75M

Hronek gets traded for LHD or will have to play his offside

Bert - Larkin - Raymond
Berggren - Malkin - Vrana
Fabbri - Suter - Namestnikov
Raz - Joey - Erne/Smith

Edvinsson - Letang
Hronek/UFA - Seider
Staal - Lindstrom
Oesterle

Probably first round fodder until the team gets better LHD, but I think that takes the team to the playoffs.

It's a well reasoned and thoughtful post, but you suggesting the Wings signing multiple Pens players means I have to put you on ignore and try to get you permabanned from this forum.

 

[Gniwder]

It's a well reasoned and thoughtful post, but you suggesting the Wings signing multiple Pens players means I have to put you on ignore and try to get you permabanned from this forum.

Think of it this way, it totally screws the Pens, and we'd be taking their playoff spot.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Think of it this way, it totally screws the Pens, and we'd be taking their playoff spot.

It still involves seeing Malkin and Letang in Wings sweaters, which makes me throw up in my mouth a bit.

Fleury doesn't bother me as much.

 

[blueadams]

Didn't see any GR games/QUOTE]

Thanks.

 

[lilidk]

Thanks.

My guess, you don't see Mcisaac makes Red Wings

 

[Gniwder]

It still involves seeing Malkin and Letang in Wings sweaters, which makes me throw up in my mouth a bit.

Fleury doesn't bother me as much.

Stealing players from Pittsburgh makes me happy. Didn't bother me one bit to watch Niskanen and Orpik hoist the Cup in a Caps jersey.

The way I see it, it's the only path to the playoffs since Stevie isn't going after Hertl, Forsberg or Lindholm. Making another team worse is almost as important as making this team better. The other option would be to overpay Bergeron because that would make it very tough for the Bruins to make the playoffs. The problem there is his injury history as well as his loyalty to the Bruins. 2x$8M would probably get it done, but that's an uglier overpayment than what I had for the Pens players. At the same time, Stevie would only have to steal one player instead of 2.

I would still consider MAF and maybe Giordano if the Pens players aren't available. I've been looking at Maatta as a reclamation project on 1 yr deal as well.

Chances are we get someone worse like Kempny on a 1 yr $1.5M deal because that's how Stevie rolls.

 

[blueadams]

My guess, you don't see Mcisaac makes Red Wings

He's already been jumped by one LHD Yzerman pick (Sebrango). I'm guessing Johansson is next. Probably Viro. Definitely Wallinder next yr. Definitely Buium the next yr. It was a shame what's happened to him injury wise since making Canada's WJ team.

The prospects don't look good for McIsaac ever making the Wings. If he plays well enough to look like a future NHL'er at some point, perhaps we'll be able to trade him to someone besides Holland.

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

Scrap the trash and roll the young guys.

once shl is done bring guys over and see what we have

Berggren Larkin Raymond
Bertuzzi Suter Fabbri
Vrana Veleno Zadina
Soderblom Rasmussen Erne

Not making playoffs this year. give guys a taste

 

[blueadams]

Disagree to the extent that this is a rebuild. Edvinsson, Johansson, Soderblom, etc. might not be 100% ready to play the NHL roles I want them to.. but part of a rebuild is throwing kids into roles that are a little bigger than they're ready for.. and watching them grow. You've got Edvinsson on a 3rd pair playing 10 minutes a night (would never happen). You've got Johansson and Soderblom in Grand Rapids. That, to me, is detrimental to the rebound. These are guys who I think are going to be an important part of our future. And they need to start getting real, big-role NHL experience.

Sign Domi and Zadorov to two yr Suter-like show-me contracts.
*not predicting trades..

Bertuzzi---Larkin---Raymond
Vrana---Domi---Soderblom
Fabbri---Suter---Rasmussen
Berggren---Veleno---Zadina

Edvinsson---Seider
Johansson---Lindstrom
Zadorov---Hronek

Ned
???

Shockingly better team with just two strikes. Our ready young guys (Edvinsson, Johansson and Soderblom) all get big roles. Short-term deals don't hurt us cap-wise when Seider, Raymond, etc. start getting paid. Short-term deals don't block other prospects from breaking in when they're ready.

This .500 season is offering fool's gold for those who think the Wings can make a legitimate push for playoffs next season without a massive investment in FAs or a huge trade or two. The Wings lack not only skill at a few top six/top four slots, but are also soft and slow and barely average in net. The changes required would be so unlike SY that it's only a fantasy. The best solution offered to date is ButtKrak's idea to spend big on short-term deals for Malkin and Letang. Even then, you need to add two LHD and make the bottom six faster and heavier and find a goalie. That's something like needing to add 7-8 players who have an established quality and style of play, plus getting something out of rookies Berggren and Edvinsson.

A) Sign Malkin and Letang to huge two-year deals.
B) Trade Hronek and Zadina to Seattle for Gourde and Soucy
C) Sign FA LHD Chiarot
D) Sign FA forwards Mikheyev and Motte.
E) Sgin Bertuzzi to an extension
F) Sign a goalie
G) Sign a tough guy

Lineup
Bertuzzi-Larkin-Raymond
Fabbri-Malkin-Vrana
Mikheyev-Gourde-Berggren
Rasmussen-Veleno-Motte
Stephens

Chiarot-Seider
Soucy-Letang
Edvinsson-Lindstrom
MacDermid-Oesterle

Ned-Other guy.

Obviously nothing close to his level of makeover is going to happen. Maybe SY looks for a 2C or a LHD in Free Agency this summer. Won't make any difference in terms of making the playoffs. There are still too many roster issues and too much player uncertainty for anyone to think the playoffs are possible next season without many more changes than anyone should expect from SY.